[Histonet] Re: goodbye - vendor perspective - sorry, can't help it

Tue Oct 24 16:50:10 CDT 2006

Douglas:

How am I "grasping at straws"?     The thing about the demo equipment is 
irrelevant.  Geoff stated that I sent him "a very nasty off list reply" 
to a 3 year old  message without providing any detail.  My point was 
that Geoff's characterization of me and my message was absolutely, 100% 
incorrect.  Geoff has made my point about posting something negative 
like that on the listserver.  Some people will believe it is fact 
without knowing the whole story.  The free exchange of scientific 
information is an appropriate use for the listserver.  Using it as a 
weapon to attack someone you don't like or to harm a company you are 
unhappy with is not.

Maybe I am idealistic, but it certainly seems reasonable to me.

David

Douglas D Deltour wrote:

>It seems like you are grasping at straws again. I am sure Geoff is not lying
>in bed at night stewing over a post three years ago. All he said is that he
>wouldn't buy a piece of equipment without a demo. He voiced his opinion. He
>is not a "disgruntled and frustrated poster". It is time to move on. 
>
> 
>Douglas D. Deltour HT(ASCP)
>Histology Supervisor
>Professional Pathology Services, PC
>One Science Court
>Suite 200
>Columbia, SC 29203
>(803)252-1913
>Fax (803)254-3262
> 
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of David
>Henriks
>Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:34 PM
>To: Geoff McAuliffe
>Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re: goodbye - vendor perspective
>
>Dear List:
>
>I now understand why Geoff was so offended by my harmless comments.  
>This also makes my point as to why it is so important NOT to post your 
>negative opinions about a company - or an individual - on the 
>listserver.  You can read the messages below which were retrieved from 
>the Microscopy listserver archives.  My message to Geoff was not 
>"off-list" it was sent to him and the listserver.  I'm confident that 
>once you read my message to him you will see that it was not nasty at 
>all.  There is always more to the story than the single line some 
>disgruntled and frustrated poster may choose to share with you.  Geoff 
>has obviously been stewing over my message for more than 3 years!  
>Geoff's own reference makes my case for me. 
>
>This was posted on the Microscopy Listserver:
>
>From: Rostislav Zemek :      rosta-at-acarus.entu.cas.cz
>Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:40:01 +0100 (CET)
>Subject: LM - question on inverted microscope, Hoffman and VAREL contrast
>Dear users of ListServer,
>
>I kindly ask you for your advice concerning inverted microscope. We need
>to .......
>
>Therefore, we consider to purchase an inverted microscope but we are not
>sure if to ask for that one which is equipped with relief contrasting
>method. If yes, which would be the best? Hoffman modulation ......
>
>As we do not have a possibility to try inverted microscope with relief
>contrast, I would very appreciate your opinion/advice.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Rostislav Zemek
>Czech Republic E-mail: rosta-at-acarus.entu.cas.cz
>
>From: Geoff McAuliffe :      mcauliff-at-umdnj.edu
>Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:58:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: LM - question on inverted microscope, Hoffman and VAREL 
>contrast
>
>Ask the vendor to bring the instrument you are considering to your lab for a
>demonstration. We always do this for expensive items. Any vendor who 
>will not
>comply is not worth dealing with.
>
>Geoff
>
>From: David Henriks :      henriks-at-southbaytech.com
>Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:26:26 -0800
>Subject: Re: LM - question on inverted microscope, Hoffman and VAREL 
>contrast
>Geoff:
>
>I can appreciate that anyone would prefer to have a vendor deliver an
>instrument to their door to do an on-site demonstration, but you also
>must realize that it is simply not possible in every instance. To say
>that "Any vendor who will not comply is not worth dealing with" is quite
>simplistic and offensive. I have nothing to do with this particular
>customer, but I can certainly understand how several excellent
>microscopy vendors may have difficulty justifying an on-site demo in the
>Czech Republic. I personally have been to the Czech Republic several
>times to demonstrate our systems, however, it can certainly not be
>justified in every instance. To dismiss vendors so capriciously would
>be doing a disservice to Dr. Zemek. Perhaps the company offering the
>best solution at the best price has a better method of demonstrating its
>performance than through an on-site demo. Technology these days is
>pretty impressive.
>
>Speaking as a family business owner and microscopy vendor for nearly 40
>years, I guess I take it a bit personally when vendors are treated with
>such disrespect. Scientists and vendors working together rather than as
>adversaries is much more productive and serves the scientific community
>much more effectively.
>
>Best regards-
>
>David
>
>From: Geoff McAuliffe :      mcauliff-at-umdnj.edu
>Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 09:56:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: LM - question on inverted microscope, Hoffman and VAREL 
>contrast
>
>Hi David:
>
>David Henriks wrote:
>
>} Geoff:
>}
>} I can appreciate that anyone would prefer to have a vendor deliver an
>} instrument to their door to do an on-site demonstration, but you also
>} must realize that it is simply not possible in every instance.
>
>That may be true.
>
>} To say
>} that "Any vendor who will not comply is not worth dealing with" is quite
>} simplistic and offensive.
>
>Hey, times are very tight here in University research land. We spend our 
>money the
>way we want to. We can't afford to buy equipment we have not tested. If 
>this offends
>you, so be it. In 30 years in university science, I have never had a 
>vendor refuse to
>demo a product, even an inexpensive one.
>
>} I have nothing to do with this particular
>} customer, but I can certainly understand how several excellent
>} microscopy vendors may have difficulty justifying an on-site demo in the
>} Czech Republic.
>
>If that is the nature of their business, then that is the nature of their
>business. The vendor runs his business the way he wants to, the customer 
>spends his
>money the way he wants to. Capitalism.
>
>} I personally have been to the Czech Republic several
>} times to demonstrate our systems, however, it can certainly not be
>} justified in every instance. To dismiss vendors so capriciously would
>} be doing a disservice to Dr. Zemek.
>
>No, Dr Zemek can make his own decisions. I was suggesting one course of 
>action for his
>consideration.
>
>} Perhaps the company offering the
>} best solution at the best price has a better method of demonstrating its
>} performance than through an on-site demo. Technology these days is
>} pretty impressive.Speaking as a family business owner and microscopy 
>vendor for
>} nearly 40
>
>} years, I guess I take it a bit personally when vendors are treated with
>} such disrespect.
>
>Not disrespect, it is just the way things operate in my world. How is 
>'not buying
>a product without a demo to see if it fits your lab's needs' disrespectful??
>
>} Scientists and vendors working together rather than as
>} adversaries is much more productive and serves the scientific community
>} much more effectively.
>
>That is a very nice, general statement that no one would argue with. It 
>is also
>180 degrees opposite of buying a product without knowing if it will 
>solve your
>problem.
>
>Geoff
>
>
>
>
>Geoff McAuliffe wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Dear list:
>>
>>   David Henriks wrote a very nice-sounding reply to the vendor issue 
>>we are all concerned about. I say nice-sounding because while it may 
>>be the ideal situation, it is not always a real world situation. Joe's 
>>troubles bear this out.
>>   Several years ago someone posted a querry on this listserver (or 
>>the Microscopy listserver, I am not sure which) about purchasing an 
>>expensive piece of equipment. I suggested he invite vendors to bring a 
>>demo to his lab to see if their equipment fit his needs. I also 
>>suggested that any vendor who would not supply a demo not be 
>>considered in his purchase plans. I got a very nasty off list reply 
>>from .......... David Henriks of South Bay Technologies.
>>   Actions speak louder than words.
>>
>>Geoff
>>
>>David Henriks wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I missed the earliest part of the thread here, but from what I see it 
>>>seems that someone criticized a vendor on the Histonet and then was 
>>>reprimanded by his boss for doing so after the vendor complained.  
>>>Now, everyone wants to ban vendors from the Histonet.  I am a vendor 
>>>and I belong to many listservers.  End users seem to have a very 
>>>skewed view of what a vendor is and what motivates us.  My main 
>>>business is not histology, although we do offer some products for the 
>>>industry.  Yes, companies are in business to make money.  No 
>>>question.  To say that patient care is not even on their radar screen 
>>>is ridiculous.  If the customer's need is to improve patient care, 
>>>then that is what a vendor is striving for.  Vendors make money by 
>>>supplying what customers want.  If you want tools for better patient 
>>>care, then that is what we provide.  If your needs change, then our 
>>>products change.  We respond to your needs.  If, as you say, patient 
>>>care is not even on the vendor radar screen, then that probably means 
>>>that customers have not made that a high priority in what they say 
>>>they need.  Vendors do not make money by producing ineffective 
>>>products that customers don't want.  The best way to ensure that 
>>>customers get what they need and vendors produce products to meet 
>>>those needs is to have an open forum where these issues can be freely 
>>>discussed.  That requires interchange between end users and vendors.
>>>Yes, there should be limitations - vendors should not overtly market 
>>>their products on the Histonet.  They should respond to postings with 
>>>viable solutions - even if they involve their own products.  Vendors 
>>>should not use this as a forum to denigrate their competition.  By 
>>>the same token, end users should not use this as a forum to air their 
>>>grievances about a product or a manufacturer.  A single negative 
>>>comment about a vendor or his product could have a devastating effect 
>>>on their business.  Perhaps your complaints are justified, but there 
>>>are better ways to go about having your concerns heard.  Any credible 
>>>vendor would love to hear from you if you are having a problem with 
>>>one of their products.  Unfortunately, most customers do not contact 
>>>the company.  Sometimes when they do contact a company they reach the 
>>>wrong person and do not get a satisfactory response.  I can 
>>>understand the frustration.  However, sharing your frustration in 
>>>such a public forum is not right.  Just as it would not be right for 
>>>you to criticize one of your colleagues on the Histonet.
>>>There are always the few that think vendors are their enemies and 
>>>think that they are solely motivated by greed.  The reality is that 
>>>vendors and end users are in this together.  The people that figure 
>>>that out early on are generally the most successful and the one who 
>>>actually drive the development of new products, new techniques and 
>>>make significant strides in their field.  To ban vendors from your 
>>>site would be regrettable and counterproductive.
>>>
>>>The listserver should be used for a free exchange of ideas and not as 
>>>a venue for criticism.  Praise in public, criticize in private.
>>>
>>>Can't we all just get along?
>>>
>>>Best regards-
>>>
>>>David
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>

-- 
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