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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not certain that carbon birefringes when viewed
with polarizing lenses. Formalin pigment will, as does silica and asbestos. But
I don't think carbon does.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Carbon will resist "bleaching" with potassium
permanganate and sulfuric acid, while this will bleach out melanin.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Try this:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2 slides of the patient tissue, on silane or
poly-L-lysine, dried for a couple of hours at 60 degrees C. (This procedure
tends to pull tissue off slides.) And 2 slides of melanin, also on the same type
subbed slides and dried of same. Use another patient's case where there is
carbon in lung tissue, prepare 2 slides of this the same way for your carbon
control.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Deparaffinize all 6 slides to water. Keep 1 pt.
slide and 1 control slide in water.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Place the other 1 pt. tissue and 1 each of the
other controls (carbon lung and melanin) in a solution of 99.7 mL d. water + 0.3
mL sulfuric acid + 0.3 g potassium permanganate for about 1 hour at room
temp.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gently rinse in d. water.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Remove excess brown-colored potassium permanganate
from tissue with 1% oxalic acid for 1-2 minutes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gently rinse in d. water.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Combine all 6 slides together. Stain with
H&E.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The melanin will be gone from the treated melanin
control slides, but will still be there on the untreated control
slides.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The carbon control will remain positive in the
treated and untreated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then look at the patient's tissue - treated and
untreated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That's all I can think of to do at a histology lab
level.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>An EM scope with metal analysis would work, as
would micro-incineration analysis. But those involve specialized
labs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Let us know what happens.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>William Beaumont Hospital</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Royal Oak, MI 48073</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Kathy.Johnston@CLS.ab.ca
href="mailto:Kathy.Johnston@CLS.ab.ca">Kathy.Johnston@CLS.ab.ca</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=histonet@pathology.swmed.edu
href="mailto:histonet@pathology.swmed.edu">histonet@pathology.swmed.edu</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Histonet] Black pigment on
Bronch Lavages</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=0></DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS"><SPAN class=977224720-30102003>As our pathologist
was explaining his problem to me while we looked at the slide in particular
under his microscope, he said that Carbon was not the item in question as it
does not become refractile when he polarizes/darkfield his microscope (to be
honest he was whizzing objectives and filters so fast I could barely
follow him!). I know carbon is very common in lung, but to my eye as
well, it is too fine and regular to resemble the stuff I usually
see. </SPAN><BR><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN id=hbblock>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> thehud@ldd.net
[mailto:thehud@ldd.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 29, 2003 3:31
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Kathy.Johnston@CLS.ab.ca<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Histonet]
Black pigment on Bronch Lavages<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>dear kathy, how have you ruled out carbon, as this is so common. peter h.
dohan, md<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message----- <BR>From:
Kathy.Johnston@CLS.ab.ca <BR>Sent: Oct 29, 2003 1:30 PM <BR>To:
histonet@pathology.swmed.edu <BR>Subject: [Histonet] Black pigment on Bronch
Lavages <BR><BR><XHTML><XHEAD><XMETA CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"
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<DIV id=0></DIV><BR><BR><SPAN id=hbblock><LABEL id=HbSession
SessionId="2361617339"></LABEL>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=273502121-29102003>One of our pathologists and
myself have been trying to identify some black intracellular pigmentation
in a bronch lavage. We have ruled out carbon, and bleaching the section
did not work, therefore is not melanin. It is a very fine dark black
pigment and appears quite uniform in shape and size. Our pathologist is
thinking that it is lead (the patient is a long time professional painter),
but lead stains are negative. My other thought is aluminum deposits but
have not yet stained for this.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=273502121-29102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=273502121-29102003>I am hoping someone on the
"Net" may have some idea of what this may be, and if there is a method
for demonstrating it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=273502121-29102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=273502121-29102003>Thanks very much in
advance!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=273502121-29102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=273502121-29102003>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>Kathy
Johnston</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>Tech II - Special
Stains</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>Anatomic Pathology -
FMC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>Calgary Laboratory
Services</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>1403-29 Street
NW</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>Calgary AB,
Canada</FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1> T2N
2T9</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>403-944-4760</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1>403-290-4093
fax</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=1><A
href="mailto:kathy.johnston@cls.ab.ca">kathy.johnston@cls.ab.ca</A></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN>
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