[Histonet] RE: GMS better than PAS for Fungi

Fri Jun 13 04:43:30 CDT 2014

Tony,

Thank you for your explanation, however, I think the original question was from a histonetter seeking to eliminate Chromic Acid from their standard GMS stain due to it's abusive reaction problems noted in the microwave, and was inquiring ideas if anybody has experience with another solution less abusive and works well. A few of us responded that the periodic acid used as the "mordant" in place of the chromic acid has worked fine in micro wave staining and does not react in such a way chromic acid does. I think our goal is to help with demonstrating fungus that the pathologist may feel is demonstrated on the HE with the most efficient, and reliable way. Yes one may feel the PAS will do such however dependant on the type of fungus I agree the GMS would be a better choice, the comment that a few of us made was that periodic acid has demonstrated a replacement that works fine and doesn't seem to minimize fungal demonstration on the slide for the GMS stain and elimination of the Chromic acid, and yes this would most like change the abbreviation of the stain...  

Michael R. LaFriniere, HT (ASCP) 
Executive Director

Capital Choice Pathology Laboratory
12041 Bournefield Way, Suite A * Silver Spring, MD 20904  
P: 240.471.3427 * F: 240.471.3401 * Cell 410-940-8844
michael.lafriniere <@t> CCPLab.com

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Henwood (SCHN)
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:50 PM
To: Michael LaFriniere; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] RE: GMS better than PAS for Fungi

Hi Michael,

The PASM  uses periodic acid, followed by the methenamine silver reaction. This is usually for basement membranes, though some methods, including mine, uses a thiosemicarbazide step before the silver.
GMS uses Chromic acid followed by the methenamine silver reaction.

The idea of a GMS is not to demonstrate pseudo-fungi. These are usually PAS positive. We would rather not have patients treated with anti-fungals if they do not actually have a fungus infection.

Regards 
Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) 
Laboratory Manager & Senior Scientist, the Children's Hospital at Westmead
Adjunct Fellow, School of Medicine, University of Western Sydney 
Tel: 612 9845 3306 
Fax: 612 9845 3318 
Pathology Department
the children's hospital at westmead
Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead
Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA 

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael LaFriniere [mailto:Michael.LaFriniere <@t> ccplab.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 11 June 2014 2:41 AM
To: Tony Henwood (SCHN); histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: GMS better than PAS for Fungi

I must disagree Tony, with my experience,using Periodic acid instead of chromic acid in the GMS stain I have no problem demonstrating Pseudo fungi nor strong results demonstrating Pneumocystis, think you may be confusing stains, this is not a (PSAM)that I am aware of. 

Michael R. LaFriniere, HT (ASCP) 
Executive Director

Capital Choice Pathology Laboratory
12041 Bournefield Way, Suite A * Silver Spring, MD 20904  
P: 240.471.3427 * F: 240.471.3401 * Cell 410-940-8844
michael.lafriniere <@t> CCPLab.com

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Henwood (SCHN)
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:25 PM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] GMS better than PAS for Fungi

Thought that the subject title should be changed.
(References available on request)

No,
Using Periodic acid instead of chromic acid just gives you a PASM. 
Pseudo-fungi are PAS Positive but classic GMS (using chromic acid) negative.
The literature is quite confusing on pseudo-fungi. Some say that they are GMS positive whereas other claim they are GMS negative. 
My own experience is that they are GMS (using chromic acid) negative. 
It is possible that our pathologists aren't aware that the "GMS" that their lab does might be using Periodic acid instead of Chromic acid. 
Commercial kits (eg Sigma and Richard-Allan) use periodic acid instead of chromic acid.
The literature often does not report the exact GMS used which makes clear understanding of the histochemical results difficult.

Pneumocystis will not be easy to see unless chromic acid is used (the mucin stains strongly PAS (and hence PASM) positive obscuring the small microorganisms).

Using PAS, Old fungi, Mucor, Actinomyces and Nocordia do not stain well whereas they stain quite well with GMS.

Regards
Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) Laboratory Manager & Senior Scientist, the Children's Hospital at Westmead Adjunct Fellow, School of Medicine, University of Western Sydney
Tel: 612 9845 3306
Fax: 612 9845 3318
Pathology Department
the children's hospital at westmead
Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA 

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Terri Braud
Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 5:58 AM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Acid Clean Glassware

Chromic acid does a nifty job of removing metal deposits on glassware, but so do many commercial lab detergents.
Chromic acid is the oxidizer for the fungus in the GMS stain.  Go one better and get rid of Chromic Acid out of your lab.  It is probably one of the more toxic / nasty chemicals in your department.  Instead, try Churukian's Ammoniacal Silver for Fungus in the microwave.  It is a much simpler, faster, prettier stain.  It uses Periodic Acid as the oxidizer and does not stain the elastic fibers like a regular GMS.  Both you and your pathologists will love it, I promise.

Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP)
Anatomic Pathology Supervisor
Holy Redeemer Hospital Laboratory
1648 Huntingdon Pike
Meadowbrook, PA 19046
Ph: 215-938-3676
Fax: 215-938-3874
Today's Topics:

   1. Acid Cleaned glassware (Abbott, Tanya)
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