[Histonet] RE: Yahoo link NO PHI

Wed Dec 4 17:40:10 CST 2013

Oh Poop.... I mean Damm

Regards 
Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) 
Laboratory Manager & Senior Scientist, the Children's Hospital at Westmead
Adjunct Fellow, School of Medicine, University of Western Sydney 

Tel: 612 9845 3306 
Fax: 612 9845 3318 
Pathology Department
the children's hospital at westmead
Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead
Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA 

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Podawiltz, Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 5 December 2013 4:17 AM
To: Shirley A. Powell; Weems, Joyce K.; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link NO PHI

My current lab the air exchange rate is 58/hr.
The good news: you do not smell fumes of any kind.
The bad news: we are negative pressure and the unvented bathrooms are just outside our lab.

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Shirley A. Powell
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:42 AM
To: Weems, Joyce K.; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

I had the same experience, the clinical lab techs asked the supervisor to keep our door closed so they would not have to smell the fumes, just lock us up in it. I was considering calling EPA in to check it out.   Thank goodness those days are gone.  Use those fume hoods and all the other ppe you can get.  :)
Shirley Powell

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce K.
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:57 AM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

I worked in a non-ventilated lab once - back in the 70s - just before the xylene study was released. I knew something was wrong and I knew it was xylene and finally was able to get an exhaust put in the window . I could taste it, smell it, and seemed to cough it up!! And my brain was fuzzier than my usual fuzz! The lab director's office was next to my lab and she moved, because she said she couldn't stand to be next to me!

So thankful for good regs now and labs since then that have been very well ventilated. We have come a long way, baby!!

Joyce Weems
Pathology Manager
678-843-7376 Phone
678-843-7831 Fax
joyce.weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org

www.saintjosephsatlanta.org
5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road
Atlanta, GA 30342

This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's Hospital and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s).  It may contain information that is privileged and confidential.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message, and reply to the sender regarding the error in a separate email.

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Horn, Hazel V
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 9:52 AM
To: 'Lee & Peggy Wenk'; Elizabeth Cameron; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

I remember participating in the health study in the 80's.   Xylene and Formaldehyde levels are monitored in all labs.  If our hospitals/research centers would allow us to forward that information on to someone who could compile data it would be a starting place for a health study.

I strongly believe this profession can be danger to health.  I can name at least 10 histotechs who have died from cancer.  Yes, it may have been when they were older but I feel certain it was from all the chemical exposure in histology before safety became a priority.   I know others will remember no ventilation, smoking and eating in the lab, no real requirements for gloves, etc.     There were also no MSDS information available and we were exposed through lack of knowledge.

I believe the lab is much safer today with all of the safety precautions we take and the knowledge we have on chemicals/stains and their toxicity.

Hazel Horn
Supervisor of Histology/Autopsy/Transcription Anatomic Pathology Arkansas Children's Hospital
1 Children's Way | Slot 820| Little Rock, AR 72202
501.364.4240 direct | 501.364.1241 fax
hornhv <@t> archildrens.org
archildrens.org

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Lee & Peggy Wenk
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 8:24 AM
To: Elizabeth Cameron; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

Couple of studies that I know of.

One was sponsored by NSH in the mid-1980's. KH Kilburn came to several NSH Symposiums, and did different tests on people who volunteered to participate. Published findings in the late 1980's that said that histotechs had lower pulmonary function than average population, and decreased memory, equilibrium and dexterity than the general population.

In Letters to the Editor, people pointed out statistical flaws (low numbers of participants, for example). I also feel there were flaws, such as testing people after traveling over time zones, who were up late at the parties, and had possibly been drinking the night before. There was no way to measure how much exposure to formaldehyde or xylene people were really exposed to. I didn't participate, but if I though the amount I was being exposed to was medium, someone else being exposed to the same amount might have said low amount and someone else could have said high amount. And the studies would say therefore the low pulmonary exposure was due to histotechs being exposed to formaldehyde. But who could say it was due to that chemical, and not due another chemical, or due to the fact that at the same time, people were smoking in the lab I was working in, which was a small space.

Another study somewhat relates - S Khattak in 1999 wrote one on pregnancy outcomes following gestational exposure to organic solvents. They interview women who were pregnant and working with organic solvent, so painters for example, so not histotechs only. They compared them to women of same age, same number of children, similar profession not exposed to organic solvents.
They found that if the exposed women were having symptoms (breathing problems, rashes), they had a higher percentage of miscarriages and babies with deformities. If there were no symptoms, they had the same, and even lower, percentages than comparable women giving birth who were not exposed.

What histology needs is something like the nursing organization in the US has been doing for over 40 years. Everyone who is a member of the nursing society is sent a survey (I think every year), and asked to have physicals information released from their doctors to the organization (It's voluntary to participate). But they have 40+ years of data from hundred of thousands of women, of all ages. They can mine a wealth of medical data from this.

NSH (and ASCP) may not have enough histotechs in their organization to pay for the type of survey needed, to continue on for decades. We would need supervisors and bench techs to participate for decades. And probably have to mail them several formaldehyde and xylene monitors every year, or every couple of years, to collect real numbers of how much people were exposed to.
And the surveys were pages and pages long (my mother was a nurse who participated from the beginning, so I've seen them), and asked lots of questions about health and diet and smoking and personal issues, in addition to questions about what types of chemical we work with an how much and how often. And how do we measure ventilation in all these places of work?

I hope someone comes up with some studies that can help us figure out if histotechs are being exposed to enough chemicals that could be causing these different diseases in humans. There are animal studies, but not human.

And remember, people in general, including histotechs, are living longer. If we live longer, we are more likely to have chronic diseases like diabetes, COPD, and cancer. We need to know which cancers are caused by which levels of formaldehyde or organic solvents, vs., say, breast cancer and prostate cancer just because we are women or men.

Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS

-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 8:24 AM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

I know the potential for damage to your health is huge in histology, but are there any studies out there that indicate histotechs are less healthy than the average person?

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Ingles Claire
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 7:06 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

Old Histologists never die, they're just well fixed...
Claire
________________________________________
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] on behalf of Morken, Timothy [Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:22 AM
To: 'Shirley A. Powell'; Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

Well, Shirley, you are actually an Angel, so nothing will ever stop you!!
(from an old Georgia Society hand).

Tim Morken
Supervisor, Electron Microscopy and Neuromuscular Special Studies UC San Francisco Medical Center San Francisco, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Shirley A.
Powell
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 9:18 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Yahoo link

When I entered the profession I was told the average life expectancy of a histotechs was 20 years from hiring.  That scared me but I was already hooked.  I have been doing this 51 years, so maybe good laboratory practices can help, in spite of bad ventilation and all those other dangers mentioned.

Shirley Powell
Antique Histotech

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Pierce
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:40 AM
To: Morken, Timothy; Histonet
Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

Just what I was thinking. We will never get enough new students now!

With proper training and equipment, we do the job safely!

And you can drown in an inch of water. Is that in the MSDS!

Paula K. Pierce, HTL(ASCP)HT
President
Excalibur Pathology, Inc.
5830 N Blue Lake Dr. Please note new address!
Norman, OK 73069
405-759-3953 Lab
405-759-7513 Fax
www.excaliburpathology.com

________________________________
From: "Morken, Timothy" <Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org>
To: 'Mike Tighe' <mtighe <@t> trudeauinstitute.org>; "histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu (histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu)"
<histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 10:24 AM
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Yahoo link

Great. Just what we need.

Even so, we in the business can take these lists with a grain of K4[Fe(CN) 6] * 3H 2 O since we know that suitable precautions preclude most of the danger. For instance, I'll have to say that the histo lab here is wonderful in that it has such good ventilation (ie.,  extraction) that there is none of the usual chemical smell - no xylene, alcohol, specials chemicals that often assaults the senses in histology. Vendors that come here are amazed.

Tim Morken
Supervisor, Electron Microscopy and Neuromuscular Special Studies UC San Francisco Medical Center San Francisco, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Tighe
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 6:31 AM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu (histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu)
Subject: [Histonet] Yahoo link

Anybody wonder who has the most harzardous job to your health? We're Number One!!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-15-jobs-that-are-most-damaging-to-your-health-155706120.html

Mike
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