[Histonet] RE: Not requiring HT Certification)

Fri May 25 09:03:28 CDT 2012

I personally agree with your route. What I am most concerned with is so many want a quick route these days and don't want to put in the hard work to learn the theory. They just want to pass the test, get a job and make a big paycheck and expect the lab that hires them to actually teach them. I enjoy teaching myself to a degree but times are changing and we are expected to do more with less. We need graduating techs to be hit the ground ready day one. If we don't start to expect this you can count on with all the cut backs in health care that our profession will continue to be viewed as just a bunch of monkeys and therefore will be payed as a bunch of monkeys. And personally being refered to as a monkey ticks me off. I'm not a monkey. I'm a frog lol

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On May 25, 2012, at 9:25 AM, "Mayer,Toysha N" <TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> Like everyone else, I was going to keep quiet, but I can't.
> I am sensitive to those downgrading us who took the OJT route.
> I did the OJT route, had a BS in Biology, tried for Veterinary School, but that wasn't so.  What do I do with all of this Science?  As part of my Pre-Med curricula had to take histology, loved it.  Had no idea that it was a paying field and such.  Had I known, I would have applied to a school as a backup.  It took me a while, but when I was hired as a tech, I did not excel quickly (Cheryl remember my mistakes), but I learned and had patient coworkers.  
> Move on down the line several years and another coworker questioned my knowledge of the chemistry behind a stain, and all of a sudden all of my organic and biochem can running out of my mouth.  I didn't realize that I really knew all of that.  I had always felt a little disadvantaged because I did not get formal training through a school, just studied and passed the HT with the help of my coworkers (shout out to  LSU VetPath).  
> There is nothing wrong with OJT for Biology majors.  They should have the basic background to understand the chemistries and processes behind why we do what we do.  With the modernization of technologies and procedures in the histo lab some formal education is needed.  There are many ways to receive this education, it can be online, or in person.  It all depends on the learner.
> To overcome the stigma we should continue with some of the things that are now in place to stabilize the training of our successors (yes we all are going to have to retire one day).  A continued push for formal training, promotion of the field, professionalism by our colleagues, and respect from the customers (pathologists, patients, and gen lab personnel). 
> In order to facilitate change for respect, we must first present a unified front.  
> I know good techs with no certification, I know bad techs with certification.  We all do.  
> Last year I celebrated my 20th year in histo and never thought I would be where I am.  I never wanted to do research, and didn't like management (don't like telling grown folks what to do), but I love teaching.  It helps me to learn the theory behind what I do and apply it better.  There are so many people who can do histo whether it is routine, special procedures, or management.  
> We shouldn't look down on those who took the OJT route, sometimes they just don't know about a formal program (like me).  You never know where the next great manager, director or tech is coming from, so don't count them out.
> 
> 
> Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP)
> Instructor, Education Coordinator
> Program in Histotechnology
> School of Health Professions
> MD Anderson Cancer Center
> (713) 563-3481
> tnmayer <@t> mdanderson.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 17:20:41 +0000
> From: joelle weaver <joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] (no subject) (Not requiring HT Certification)
> To: <jkrupp <@t> deltacollege.edu>
> Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Message-ID: <SNT135-W63F3AC88ED033046FE696AD8000 <@t> phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Jon There is a route with associates and training I believe. 
> Of course I can't speak for the BOC, and I am sure that you want to help your employees as much as you can. I do see your point about the similarities in tasks. My thought would be that the exam eligibility states that they have to have recent experience in fixation, embedding, microtomy, and staining (histology) and the associated theory knowledge. EM is on the exam study topics, but also with the theory/experience for all those routine histological techniques, is how I read it. Take a look at the exam outlines, that should give you an idea of the scope. Ascp.org "get certified".  As I have been told, they want to cover the widest possible scope of roles histologists can perform, which could include EM, but not only that. If they don't have exposure to regular histology I think that it might be hard for to feel prepared for the regular HT or HTL exams. That's just my opinion, based on what I have observed and also the pass rates ( ~ 65%), for people even with training/experience- there could be an exceptional person out there.   I can understand not wanting to get buried in doing a whole HT curricula ( believe me, I do). How about the option of having cross training in a histology lab? Do you have routine histology on site or a nearby lab?  The best advice I can give is to go to the website and carefully read the requirments to see how your employees might fit in. If you want to provide the theory without having to do the curricula, there are on line programs out there which can supplement OJT and a supportive mentor and organization. I have seen this work successfully with motivated people with the ability to have hands on practice alongside. I suggest the NSH site which lists the accredited programs  or the NAACLS site which  has a search for programs, if that would help.  As far as employability, my opinion is that it would certainly open up options for your employees to also have skills in routine histology make them more valuable to your organization, and I would think certification would be even more helpful to them as far as options. 
> 
> 
> 
> Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC
>> Subject: Re: [Histonet] (no subject) (Not requiring HT Certification)
>> From: jkrupp <@t> deltacollege.edu
>> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 09:53:21 -0700
>> CC: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>> To: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:25 AM, joelle weaver wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I think that the original post was referring to people with a HSD or GED. I am not sure of the exact reasons considered in discontinuation of OJT route, but I recall some publications discussing the desire to raise the perception and awareness of the profession. The people with bachelors and the science credits needed can choose either the HT or HTL as I understand it, with the one year of verified experience/training. I think there is a route with a associate's and the required science credits available with the verified training for the HT. I believe there are now two routes for each exam if I recall correctly, one being the program graduate route  plus experience , and one with education requirements met and training/experience. There is a page on the site that lays this out if anyone wants to clarify/correct my recollection. 
>> 
>> OK, so I have a question.
>> 
>> We train students to do electron microscopy, both specimen prep and instrument operation.  They fix and embed (in plastic) tissues and make thick sections (1 um or less for us) and examine them using LM. It is not much of a leap to add paraffin techniques and/or basic staining etc. We have most of the equipment that would be needed already, but I am not ready to go into a full blown HT curriculum.
>> 
>> So, the question is, if a student gets an Associates degree that includes the basic science, would it help the student to get the basics of HT before looking for a job? Or could they take the test, get something to show for their work and make them a good job candidate?
>> 
>> Our students are skilled and could do the job, but figuring out how to help them and give them the right advice is my problem now.
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>> Jonathan Krupp
>> Delta College
>> 5151 Pacific Ave.
>> Box 212
>> Stockton, CA  95207
>> 209-954-5284
>> jkrupp <@t> deltacollege.edu
>> 
>> Find us on Facebook @
>> Electron Microscopy at SJ Delta College
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>                         
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 17:28:10 +0000
> From: joelle weaver <joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: Not requiring HT Certification
> To: <timothy.morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org>
> Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Message-ID: <SNT135-W30A9C4CC6679FA4F434166D8000 <@t> phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Yes I was referring to the HS and OJT training route.  There is confusion about the degree + OJT and HS + OJT. Yes, that was my understanding also of the drivers, I just could not recall where I read/heard that. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC
>> From: Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org
>> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 09:56:25 -0700
>> Subject: [Histonet] RE: Not requiring HT Certification
>> 
>> " I am not sure of the exact reasons considered in discontinuation of OJT route, but I recall some publications discussing the desire to raise the perception and awareness of the profession."
>> 
>> Just a clarification, the OJT route was NOT discontinued - it is still there - even now the vast majority of techs are trained by OJT - maybe 99.9 percent. They simply need more education (not even a degree, just enough credits!) to qualify to take the HT test.
>> 
>> If you mean the pure OJT route - no education beyond high school, well, the primary driver was the fact that almost all techs could pass the practical but the pass rate on the written test was much, much lower.  It became obvious that many people were doing lab work that they did not fully understand or had trouble comprehending the details.
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Morken
>> 
>> 
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