[Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
Jan Shivers
shive003 <@t> umn.edu
Mon Feb 28 13:05:40 CST 2011
I think that if vendors contribute to a Histonet discussion, they should
certainly let it be known that they're a vendor, and also who they work for.
We need to be aware that their comments and opinions have a bias.
Jan Shivers
Senior Scientist
Histology/IHC/EM Section Head
Pathology Teaching Program
University of Minnesota
Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory
1333 Gortner Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
612-624-7297
shive003 <@t> umn.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mahoney,Janice A" <Janice.Mahoney <@t> alegent.org>
To: "'Rathborne, Toni'" <trathborne <@t> somerset-healthcare.com>; "Jesus Ellin"
<JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org>; "Michael Mihalik" <mike <@t> pathview.com>; "CHRISTIE
GOWAN" <christiegowan <@t> msn.com>; <dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com>;
<histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
> Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rathborne, Toni [mailto:trathborne <@t> somerset-healthcare.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:49 PM
> To: Mahoney,Janice A; Jesus Ellin; Michael Mihalik; CHRISTIE GOWAN;
> dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>
> I did not mean to imply that he should not have stated that he is a
> competitor, only that he leave off the last few lines which included a
> phone number and his employer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mahoney,Janice A [mailto:Janice.Mahoney <@t> alegent.org]
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:10 PM
> To: Rathborne, Toni; Jesus Ellin; Michael Mihalik; CHRISTIE GOWAN;
> dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>
>
> So you suggest that vendors pretend to be users by not stating who they
> are? I don't get it?
> I do not mean to be argumentative, I REALLY do not see how we are allowing
> this.
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rathborne, Toni [mailto:trathborne <@t> somerset-healthcare.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:03 PM
> To: Mahoney,Janice A; Jesus Ellin; Michael Mihalik; CHRISTIE GOWAN;
> dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>
>
> I can say that I appreciated Michael's comments, but also think that he
> should have left his contact information and the company he represents off
> of the email. If anyone would have been interested in replying to him
> privately, they still could have done so.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu]On Behalf Of
> Mahoney,Janice A
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:56 PM
> To: 'Jesus Ellin'; Michael Mihalik; CHRISTIE GOWAN;
> dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>
>
> Histonet Users.
> Please help me understand something. I may be opening a big can of worms
> here but I'm confused.
> Why is it that Michael Mihalik is allowed to expound on the subject of
> workflow solutions when he is a competitor in that market? I'm not saying
> that some of his comments are not helpful but I thought this was a users
> forum? People usually freak out when a vendor tries to put comment on a
> competitors products,
> what is the difference here? I personally do not want to hear what he has
> to say here because he obviously has another agenda regardless of how it
> is disguised.
> I openly admit that I am a Ventana Vantage user and will stand by that
> system because I know it so well and know it's capabilities. The BIG
> difference is, I am a user, not a Vendor.
> Jan
> Omaha
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus
> Ellin
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 11:40 AM
> To: Michael Mihalik; CHRISTIE GOWAN; dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com;
> histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>
> Well put Michael!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Michael
> Mihalik
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 10:35 AM
> To: 'CHRISTIE GOWAN'; dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com;
> histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>
> As many as you know this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart so
> I'd
> like to expound on this subject if you'll permit me. For those of you who
> already have solutions, or perhaps have more favored topics, please feel
> to
> move on to the next subject.
>
> First off, while I have some knowledge of both products, I am a user of
> neither. In fact I am a competitor of both, to some degree. Both
> products
> offer advantages and disadvantages. You really need to think about how
> they
> fit in your lab. When I say 'in your lab', I mean not only the histology
> area, but everyone, including the accessioning clerks, secretaries,
> pathologists, and even cytotechnologists.
>
> To me, one of the items that is more relevant to your situation is whether
> you want an integrated solution (IMPAC) or a standalone/interfaced
> solution.
> For instance,
>
> 1. How will information get into Vantage? Will it have to be manually
> accessioned/entered or will there be an interface? In the IMPAC solution
> this is a non issue. Also, keep in mind that there may be an interface
> cost
> from BOTH vendors should you decide an interface is in order.
>
> 2. How will information get OUT of Vantage or put another way, does the
> pathologist or secretary need to see information gathered/stored by
> Vantage?
> This may be resolved by another interface, but it may also be resolved by
> putting Vantage on more and more PCs.
>
> 3. Who is going to configure, manage and maintain Vantage? This is going
> to be a whole other computer system in your lab. Will your IT department
> support it, maintain it, administer it, etc. Who will understand and set
> up
> the files, etc.? You have the same issue with IMPAC, but I bet someone is
> already handling all these issues.
>
> 4. Can you use barcodes generated from Ventana on IMPAC? I don't know
> the
> answer to this question. It's not that each system can't read the
> barcode.
> It's a matter of whether IMPAC calls their slide, slide X and Vantage
> calls
> it 'y'. For instance, maybe IMPAC calls it case#.spnid.blockid.slideid
> and
> maybe Vantage calls it slideidNN. That means whenever the pathologist
> scans
> the slide at his IMPAC workstation, IMPAC won't recognize it. Perhaps
> this
> is not an issue, but I thought I would bring it up.
>
> 5. Management Reports: I know IMPAC supports Crystal Reports and at
> least
> theoretically you can build your own management reports. I don't what the
> situation with Vantage is. Are they canned reports or can you add more?
> Does this matter to you? I don't know enough about the details of either
> reporting module. Perhaps, the Vantage report subsystem generates
> everything you could possibly need and therefore why deal with Crystal
> Reports to generate unneeded reports. On the other hand, I note that in a
> response, Christie mentioned that Vantage tracked quality issues 'anywhere
> in the process'. I would wonder how Vantage could track quality issues at
> specimen receipt or at the pathologists PC if Vantage was not installed at
> those two areas. Perhaps as long as it's tracked somewhere, who cares
> what
> system contains the data.
>
> These are some serious issues to consider and as you might conclude, the
> analysis leans towards an integrated solution. However, that's not the
> whole story.
>
> There is really no magic to printing and scanning barcodes. The real
> science/magic lies in how those barcoded identifiers are used. You want
> them to make misidentification errors go away and you want them to
> constantly provide who/what/where information for any and all material.
> ...but again, HOW do the two sets of software do that?
>
> You might want to consider the following questions:
>
> 1. Do you HAVE to use PCs for each grossing, embedding, cutting station?
> This is important because more PCs cost money and more PCs take up
> precious
> space. On the other hand, more PCs allow more ease of data entry.
> 2. At grossing do you need to see the requisition? Are the requisitions
> scanned into IMPAC? That would make it difficult for IMPAC to display
> those images. What about patient history? Do you need to see that at
> grossing?
> 3. Do ALL slides print automatically when a block is scanned or do they
> have to be selected? You may have a preference here, but notice that I
> said
> 'slides for a block'. I can see both answers being 'correct'.
> 4. If you already have a Benchmark or Ultra, you have a built in
> motivation
> to use Vantage. With Vantage, you can use only ONE slide label to label
> slides going to those instruments. With IMPAC, you have to hand write or
> double label. This is because those 2 instruments require the use of
> Ventana's own label. Also, once the order for the benchmark or Ultra is
> in
> Vantage, I 'imagine' that this data would be sent to those instruments
> automatically. Please confirm this as I do not know if this is an
> additional cost.
> 5. Again, if you use either the Ultra or Benchmark, the anticipated slide
> completion date is available. This date/time is not available via an
> interface to IMPAC or any other vendor.
> 6. At grossing do you need to see the requisition? Are the requisitions
> scanned into IMPAC? That would make it difficult for Vantage to display
> those images. What about patient history? Do you need to see that at
> grossing?
>
> There are certainly other issues, and please don't get me wrong. I think
> that Vantage is a very sexy product. It looks very nice and it provides
> the
> positive ID everyone should really have. As you read the literature and
> get
> responses from others keep in mind that you have a choice a lot of people
> don't have. You can choose a system that is supported by your current
> vendor. A LOT of other people don't have that choice. It's either
> Vantage,
> a competitor to Vantage or a new LIS. You can get a lot of 'bang for the
> buck' with just Vantage.
>
> ...but if you're looking for a new LIS, well that's where my company comes
> in.... but that's a subject for a private email.
>
>
> P.S. The purpose of this email is to neither endorse one or the other
> product. My intention was to simply get people thinking about the issues
> involved, especially as tracking solutions and LIS's have evolved over the
> last few years.
>
>
>
> Michael Mihalik
> PathView Systems | cell: 214.733.7688 | 800.798.3540 | fax: 952.241.7369
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of CHRISTIE
> GOWAN
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:05 AM
> To: dana.spencer <@t> pcmh.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>
>
> Hi Dana,
> I can't speak to the Elekta module but I have used the Vantage system for
> over a year now. We generate a bar code at accessioning that is used
> throughout the entire process to make cassettes, gross, embed, section,
> stain and turn out. We do not batch during any of the process other than
> the
> 20 slides we put in our staining tray. We scan each block at microtomy as
> we
> section which prints a label that we affix to the slide when we pick up
> the
> section. We have virtually eliminated errors at all stations. We were able
> to see quite an improvement in turn around times as well as tracking our
> specimens. This system also allows us to track quality issues anywhere in
> the process. Please feel free to contact me if you have further questions.
> Christie Gowan
> University of Alabama at Birmingham
> Surgical Pathology
> 205 934 4991
>
>> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:41:02 -0500
>> From: Dana.Spencer <@t> PCMH.COM
>> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>> Subject: [Histonet] Histology Workflow Solutions
>>
>> I am currently investigating workflow solutions for our Histology Lab
> incorporating bar code labeling. We use the PowerPath/ Elekta AP System. I
> am looking into Elekta's AMP Module vs Ventana's Vantage system. I would
> welcome any comments on these systems and how they work in your lab or if
> you use something else. I would also welcome any suggestions or comments
> on
> how you label slides...Do you batch print and scan barcodes of the blocks
> and slides at the microtome? Do you scan blocks at the microtome and print
> labels there for the slides? Do you scan blocks at the microtome and print
> slides at the microtome? You may email directly if you prefer. Please
> share!
> Thanks in advance for your help and feedback!
>>
>> Dana
>>
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