[Histonet] High Complexity Testing

Tue Feb 8 19:29:23 CST 2011

Completely agree with you Glen.  However, do take exception to the initial comment on this thread about "a machine does all the work".  The "machine does all the work" comment is very telling about what this pathologist (or group of pathologists) knows and does not know about running IHC.  If the "machine does all the work" what do you need the IHC staff for?  To me, that's like saying when a pathologist using image analysis, that the "machine does all the work".  Granted you're going to have people with various skill sets and knowledge of histochemical processes, but comments (and attitudes) like that are degrading in nature.  If the "machine does all the work" why doesn't this pathologist go to the nearest McDonald's and recruit from they're application files?  Just trying to make a point here and tip my hat to everyone working diligently and intelligently even though you may have a "machine doing all the work".

Tom Jasper

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Dawson, Glen
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:40 AM
Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] High Complexity Testing

Alright, if IHC is not high complexity testing, CAP should cut that massive part of their inspection in half and concentrate more on the pathologists' ability to accurately interpret the staining.  Too much CAP regulation, Proficiency Testing & validation requirements involved if all IHC is is part of "Processing".

My Opinion,

Glen A. Dawson
Milwaukee, WI

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victoria Baker
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 12:17 PM
To: Whitaker, Bonnie
Cc: Horn, Hazel V; Goins, Tresa; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Re: [Histonet] High Complexity Testing

I should not have included CLIA in my e-mail as it would seem it has clouded
things a little.  I do apologize.  Initially when these issues and
guidelines came about CLIA and CAP dovetailed as far as Histology  was
concerned.

Shelia you were looking for contacts that would help you with getting a more
solid base to meet these regulations.  If you go to the CAP website and
click on the IHC link you will find links and publications to assist you.  I
would recommend that you contact the Applied Immunohistochemistry society as
well.  NSH or your state/regional society may also have additional
information.

Should I see something else in my searches I will most willingly forwarded
them to you.

Vikki

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Whitaker, Bonnie <Bonnie.Whitaker <@t> osumc.edu
> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> There is a difference in performing a task (immunostaining) that is
> complex, and performing "high complexity testing" as the CLIA regulations
> govern.
>
> Yes, staining is a complex task, and it requires knowlegable techs to
> ensure that it is properly done, and to troubleshoot  difficulties when
> necessary.
>
> It is "high complexity testing" because "testing personnel" in anatomic
> pathology are pathologists (and the non-physician people performing gross
> examinations, who must meet "high complexity testing personnel"
> requirements.
>
> "Testing personnel" as defined by CLIA, are the people that report results
> of that test, not people who perform other related duties.
>
> That's my explanation of the whole mess.
>
> Bonnie Whitaker
> AP Operations Director
> Ohio State University Medical Center
> Department of Pathology
> 614.293.5048
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:
> histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Goins, Tresa
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 12:22 PM
> To: Horn, Hazel V; 'Rene J Buesa'; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu;
> Sheila Fonner
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] High Complexity Testing
>
> I must disagree with this assessment of what makes a test complex.  If the
> test is done properly [the responsibility of the technologist] then the
> reading to the test is a visual determination that requires experience on
> the part of the pathologist, but if the test is not done properly, will the
> pathologist be able to tell the technologist what to do to fix the problem?
>
> Where's the Tylenol?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:
> histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Horn, Hazel V
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:58 AM
> To: 'Rene J Buesa'; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Sheila Fonner
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] High Complexity Testing
>
> While the test is high complexity it is the READING of the test by the
> pathologist that determines its complexity.  Because histotechs do not
> report the results our part of this test is not high complexity.
>
> Hazel Horn
> Hazel Horn, HT/HTL (ASCP)
> Supervisor of Autopsy/Histology/Transcription Arkansas Children's Hospital
> 1 Children's Way    Slot 820
> Little Rock, AR   72202
>
> phone   501.364.4240
> fax        501.364.3155
>
> visit us on the web at:    www.archildrens.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:
> histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:32 AM
> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Sheila Fonner
> Subject: Re: [Histonet] High Complexity Testing
>
> When a "machine" is doing the test, there are stringent provisions as to
> the preparation and validations of the test.
> Done manually, it requires a trained technologists and, yes, they are high
> complexity tests (both IHC and FISH, and their variations).
> René J.
>
> --- On Tue, 2/8/11, Sheila Fonner <sfonner <@t> labpath.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Sheila Fonner <sfonner <@t> labpath.com>
> Subject: [Histonet] High Complexity Testing
> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 7:45 AM
>
>
> Hello All,
>
>
>
> I would really appreciate it if anyone has information on whether IHC/ISH
> are considered high complexity testing for histotechs.  Our pathologist
> believes that ALL histology low complexity testing since a "machine" is
> doing the work.  Can anyone help me out with some guidelines, literature,
> etc. that says otherwise?  I would really appreciate it.  We just want to
> know which one it is.
>
>
>
> Thanks so much Histoland!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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