[Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin

joelle weaver joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com
Wed Aug 31 11:39:59 CDT 2011 

Matt, your first paragraph is exactly correct in my experience with directing a program. And yes, it did produce very unfortunate results in some cases. Almost to the point of negligence,   I came to feel in some situations on the part of the school ( test score focus, seemingly little concern if they were actually knowledgable, prepared or safe for themselves and patients) . My pleas for understanding,  actual and financial support, fell on "deaf ears"...against mounting budget and funding pressures I reasoned. But all the school focus seemed to be "outcomes"  which for them= test scores tied to state money, and NOT actual proficiency or prepartion to work competently in all areas of histology (as it meant for me).  It was really disheartening, and I also agree that what I saw were some definate "disconnects" as you have identified (Matt Lunetta's post).
 
Joelle Weaver MAOM, BA, (HTL) ASCP
 

> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:15:29 -0600
> From: MLunetta <@t> luhcares.org
> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
> 
> You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. 
> 
> I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill
> level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am
> surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test
> and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the
> persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not
> only the facility but the new HT.
> 
> Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to
> have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a
> person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that
> the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new
> graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it
> reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus,
> appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the
> water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut
> blocks?
> 
> So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without
> that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig
> to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment,
> cutting, embeding, staining etal? 
> 
> More thoughts....
> ciao
> Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edwards, Richard E." ree3 <@t> leicester.ac.uk
> 
> If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they
> going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My
> daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked
> for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said
> that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what
> rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more
> enlightened management that is to be found here!.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Richard Edwards
> >>> "Shirley A. Powell" 08/30/11 6:32 PM >>> 
> I second that Joyce. 
> sp 
> 
> ________________________________________ 
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce
> [JWeems <@t> sjha.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM 
> To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To
> stick a Pin 
> 
> I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion
> of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton
> College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their
> "Clinicals". They know how to do those things, are trained by the
> clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. 
> 
> Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for
> 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding
> that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their
> skill. 
> 
> My 2 cents... 
> 
> 
> Joyce Weems 
> Pathology Manager 
> Saint Joseph's Hospital 
> 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE 
> Atlanta, GA 30342 
> 678-843-7376 - Phone 
> 678-843-7831 - Fax 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew
> Lunetta 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 
> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
> Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To
> stick a Pin 
> 
> Hey all, 
> 
> I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be
> very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that
> graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. 
> So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. 
> 
> This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to
> have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 
> 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 
> 2) no special staining experience 
> 3) no embedding experience 
> 4) no cutting experience 
> 
> When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or
> quality that is nee
> ded in our industry. While they can answer any
> question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one
> would expect from a new graduate. 
> 
> I have learned several lessons from this experience. 
> 
> 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the
> practical 
> 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the
> selection process. 
> 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular
> program 
> 
> While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills
> needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. 
> 
> Respectfully, 
> 
> Matt Lunetta 
> BS, HT (ASCP) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 2 
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 
> From: "Gudrun Lang" 
> Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical 
> To: "'Bob Richmond'" 
> Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
> Message-ID: <8B7976B131854ABC8DB236FAB5026851 <@t> dielangs.at> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 
> 
> Dear Dr. Richmond 
> Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years 
> experience. ;) 
> Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... 
> 
> It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. 
> Gudrun 
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
> Von: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob 
> Richmond 
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 
> An: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
> Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical 
> 
> I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination 
> and why it had to be dropped. I never really understood the issue 
> before. 
> 
> I must confess I always enjoyed helping the prospective examinee 
> obtain exactly the right tissue. 
> 
> "No, this endometrium is poorly preserved. We'll arrange with surgery 
> for a completely fresh specimen - I'll block it initially for the 
> diagnosis, then we'll fix it overnight and then block it exactly to 
> specifications. - Ick - this one's been curetted - we'll get another 
> one". 
> 
> "I'll block the margins of this colon resection specimen, then we'll 
> pin a portion of tissue onto paraffin and fix it flat overnight." 
> 
> "Next time I do an autopsy we'll get a lumbar spinal cord in the 
> intact dura. I'll open the dura dorsally and ventrally with iridectomy 
> scissors, then we'll hang it in neutral buffered formalin for two 
> days. Then I'll tie the dura and dependent nerves with a cotton 
> string. When you embed you'll remove the string, taking care that dura 
> and nerves remain in position. After that it's all yours. If it 
> doesn't work the first time, we've got three more levels in the jar." 
> 
> OK, I'm a geek, I'm 72 years old, I got a right. 
> 
> Bob Richmond 
> Samurai Pathologist 
> Knoxville TN 
> 
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