[Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin

Wed Aug 31 09:52:36 CDT 2011

I went through histo school (in 1983-84) and we were taught the skills needed to work in a hospital lab- Many of these came into play when we were preparing our practical. I had to cut at my interview, being a new grad, and once I was hired I had my 3 months probation to have the quality and quantity of the techs already there, most of them had been in the field at least 10 years, so I had a basis and a goal to meet in a short time. I survived and worked there for 15 years and learned how to crank out the work with  the needed quality. If trained properly, it should not be a problem. You relearn/adapt your skills to do what is needed in your job- that is the reason I was hired- the hospital wanted a tech easy to retrain to their procedures.
Bear in mind, OTJ is no longer a viable route (last I heard)
Bernice

Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP)
Senior Research Tech
Pathology Core Facility
ECOGPCO-RL
Robert. H. Lurie Cancer Center
Northwestern University
710 N Fairbanks Court
Olson 8-421
Chicago,IL 60611
312-503-3723
b-frederick <@t> northwestern.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:15 AM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin

You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. 

I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not only the facility but the new HT.

Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus, appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut blocks?

So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment, cutting, embeding, staining etal? 

More thoughts....
ciao
Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP)

Edwards, Richard E." ree3 <@t> leicester.ac.uk

If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!.

Cheers

Richard Edwards
>>> "Shirley A. Powell" 08/30/11 6:32 PM >>>
I second that Joyce. 
sp 

________________________________________
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [JWeems <@t> sjha.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM
To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin 

I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their "Clinicals". They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. 

Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for
1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. 

My 2 cents... 

Joyce Weems
Pathology Manager
Saint Joseph's Hospital
5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE
Atlanta, GA 30342
678-843-7376 - Phone
678-843-7831 - Fax 

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin 

Hey all, 

I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. 
So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. 

This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 
1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 
2) no special staining experience
3) no embedding experience
4) no cutting experience 

When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is nee ded in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. 

I have learned several lessons from this experience. 

1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical
2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 
3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular program 

While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. 

Respectfully, 

Matt Lunetta
BS, HT (ASCP) 

Message: 2 
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 
From: "Gudrun Lang" 
Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical 
To: "'Bob Richmond'" 
Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
Message-ID: <8B7976B131854ABC8DB236FAB5026851 <@t> dielangs.at> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 

Dear Dr. Richmond 
Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years 
experience. ;) 
Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... 

It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. 
Gudrun 

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob 
Richmond 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 
An: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical 

I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination 
and why it had to be dropped. I never really understood the issue 
before. 

I must confess I always enjoyed helping the prospective examinee 
obtain exactly the right tissue. 

"No, this endometrium is poorly preserved. We'll arrange with surgery 
for a completely fresh specimen - I'll block it initially for the 
diagnosis, then we'll fix it overnight and then block it exactly to 
specifications. - Ick - this one's been curetted - we'll get another 
one". 

"I'll block the margins of this colon resection specimen, then we'll 
pin a portion of tissue onto paraffin and fix it flat overnight." 

"Next time I do an autopsy we'll get a lumbar spinal cord in the 
intact dura. I'll open the dura dorsally and ventrally with iridectomy 
scissors, then we'll hang it in neutral buffered formalin for two 
days. Then I'll tie the dura and dependent nerves with a cotton 
string. When you embed you'll remove the string, taking care that dura 
and nerves remain in position. After that it's all yours. If it 
doesn't work the first time, we've got three more levels in the jar." 

OK, I'm a geek, I'm 72 years old, I got a right. 

Bob Richmond 
Samurai Pathologist 
Knoxville TN 

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