[Histonet] IHC stainer

Mon Mar 16 11:42:00 CDT 2009

I am in a research lab and we are currently testing automated IHC
machines. A couple months ago we had the Bond Max from Leica. The
machine gave me nothing but problems. They said it was because it was a
"demo" unit and the real one would not do that (who knows). The
interesting thing, though, was the quote I received from them. Yes, if
you pay extra you can "open" the system so that you can use any type of
reagent. What they don't tell you is you have to ALSO pay about $1000
for EACH detection system you want to use. For research, that is a
little crazy, I could use a different detection system every day.

Currently we have the Dako Autostainer. It is completely open and I have
had no problems with it. I don't know what was meant by Dako going with
a more "closed" system, the machine we are currently testing is very
open. I like it.

Jennifer Bower

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Patsy
Ruegg
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:05 AM
To: 'Pamela Marcum'; 'Greg Dobbin'
Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu; sweaver <@t> tvmdl.tamu.edu; 'Ronald
Houston'
Subject: RE: [Histonet] IHC stainer

I have for years worked with animal and human IHC and would have said in
the
past that the Dako open system autostainer was the way to go with the
most
flexibility, I still have the old one and use it all the time because
you
can absolutely use what ever reagent you want and there are way cheaper
ways
to go than buying these from Dako, Ventana, Leica, or BioCare, or the
others.  Now that Dako has gone with the more closed system like Ventana
I
cannot recommend them for open use anymore, a big mistake by Dako in my
opinion.

The Leica Bond instrument may be an option.  They have a research
software
version that allows you to use open containers and fill them with whose
ever
reagents you want, BioCare also has an open system new on the market. 

Sometimes I wonder if in research IHC if it might not be a lot cheaper
and
we would have better control and understand more about what we are doing
if
we went back to manual IHC.  For the Vet. Lab wanting to start their own
IHC
work with not a lot of volume and untrained techs, I would definitely
want
my techs to learn by doing manual staining before I put some instrument
in
there that will teach them more about how to use the computer software
than
anything about IHC, but that is just the opinion of an old school gal
who
sees that there are a lot of people doing critical IHC work who do not
understand what they are doing.

Best regards,

Patsy

Patsy Ruegg, HT(ASCP)QIHC
IHCtech
12635 Montview Blvd. Ste.215
Aurora, CO 80045
720-859-4060
fax 720-859-4110
www.ihctech.net 
www.ihcrg.org

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pamela
Marcum
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 7:50 PM
To: Greg Dobbin
Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu; sweaver <@t> tvmdl.tamu.edu; Ronald
Houston
Subject: Re: [Histonet] IHC stainer

Just be sure it is an open system that will allow you to use any primary
antibody you need and secondary antibody not just a secondary kit the
company provides.  You will need to confirm that if you are using a
chicken
primary for instance, you can get and use a secondary link that will
work
with the chicken primary to get your staining reaction.  Be very careful
that it allows you flexibilty and is not designed for clinical standard
usage with no ability to truly allow you the range required for animal
work.
I work with animal and it is hard to find everyhting you need and not
all
"standard" antibodies and systems will work across species.  Good Luck,
Pam
marcum

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Dobbin" <gvdobbin <@t> ihis.org>
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu, "Ronald Houston"
<Ronald.Houston <@t> nationwidechildrens.org>, sweaver <@t> tvmdl.tamu.edu
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:57:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [Histonet] IHC stainer

I guess I would have to echo that as well!
Cheers!
Greg

Greg Dobbin, R.T.
Chief Technologist, Anatomic Pathology
Dept. of Laboratory Medicine,
Queen Elizabeth Hospital,
P.O. Box 6600
Charlottetown, PE    C1A 8T5
Phone: (902) 894-2337
Fax: (902) 894-2385

"I find that the harder I work, the 
more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

>>> "Houston, Ronald" <Ronald.Houston <@t> nationwidechildrens.org>
3/13/2009 4:45:14 PM >>>
Can't speak highly enough of the BondMax form Leica Microsystems. If
cost is an issue and you're looking at what to avoid, IMHO avoid
anything Ventana

Ronnie Houston
Anatomic Pathology Manager
Nationwide Children's Hospital
Columbus OH 43205
(614) 722 5450

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of
Stephanie Weaver
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:17 PM
To: histonet post
Subject: [Histonet] IHC stainer

I am in a veterinary diagnostic lab.  In the past we have had very few
requests for IHC and have always sent slides out to another lab to
perform IHC as needed.  It is time for us to start doing our own and
join the modern age.  We have several certified technicians, but none
have experience with IHC and we typically have a relatively high
turnover rate.  Therefore, I am hoping to be able to buy an automated
stainer.  In the past most people on the list seemed to be very happy
with the Dako autostainer, but this past week has brought so many bad
remarks about Dako's service that I am reconsidering.  We probably
will
not need a high capacity autostainer, but I would like walk-away
capability with an easy to use system.  It will need to accept other
companies reagents, since veterinary infectious disease antibodies
aren't often sold by the major companies.  Also, cost is an issue and
I
would like to be able to bargain shop for reagents through other
companies.  Does anyone have any recommendations, or warnings as to
what
to avoid?

In a related issue, where do other animal tissue people get their
antibodies for infectious diseases, e.g. Parvovirus, canine distemper,
or FIP?

Thanks for the advice!

Stephanie Weaver
Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Lab

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