[Histonet] RE: testing cutting ability--Charles Embrey

Mon Feb 23 16:50:02 CST 2009

Hi Charles...

So, in this 20 blocks per hour scenario, what kind of tissue and sectioning are you talking about.

How many slides per specimen are made, and how many sections per slide?  Are these serial sections that exhaust the entire block or is there tissue left in the block after sectioning?  I could see doing 20 blocks an hour if you just needed a few slides per specimen.  

We do a lot of work with mouse brachiocephalic artery, and mouse aortic sinus which are pretty small. I have my techs put five serial sections per slide, and we end up with 30-50 slides per animal.  I encourage them to examine at least every other slide under the microscope before proceeding to cut the next slide.

Charles, you wrote: "You are wrong to consider 20 blocks per hour to be a "sweat-shop" pace."

I gather from other people's responses to my post there are a lot of techs who consider their workplaces to be like "sweat-shops" for a variety of reasons.

My approach to retaining labor is to interview wisely, pay people well, and treat them like the excellent professionals they are.  On the rare occasion that performance is below-par, I offer them extra training and assistance.  Only once in 20 years have I had to fire anyone.

Yes, I am aware that there is a world beyond academia.   Mind you, I consider the academic world to also be part of the "real world."  But common sense, professionalism and simple human decency apply in every setting, whether it be academic, commercial, or clinical.

Jerry Ricks
Research Scientist
University of Washington.
Department of Pathology

> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:56:59 -0600
> From: Charles.Embrey <@t> carle.com
> To: rosenfeldtek <@t> hotmail.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: testing cutting ability--This is starting to	ReallyAnnoy me.
> CC: 
> 
> Jerry, you are right that clinical work is different from research.  You are wrong to consider 20 blocks per hour to be a "sweat-shop" pace. I've know scores of histotechs that cut well over 20 blocks per hour and produce high quality slides. Sorry you feel offended by this discussion but there is a real world outside of your university walls.
> Chuck
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of JR R
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 1:58 PM
> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: [Histonet] RE: testing cutting ability--This is starting to ReallyAnnoy me.
> 
> 
> All this talk of having people actually section as part of the interview process is offensive to me. 
> 
> I have hired and trained lots of histotechnologists.  Mostly I train them myself, from scratch, but sometimes I hire them pre-trained.  Then of course, I re-train them anyway so they can do the work to the specs of my lab.  Any deficiencies they have will be corrected through training.  By me.
> 
> At my University there is a formal 30 day (maybe it's longer, I can't recall) probationary period for new hires.   That's good enough.  Why in the world would I need to have them section as part of an interview process?
> 
> I am also offended by the "blocks per hour" language.  Partly it's because in my lab we do exhaustive serial sectioning, so I consider a tech who gives me one block every half-hour to be doing a good job.
> 
> Maybe it's different in clinical work, but...20 blocks per hour?  And you expect quality work?  
> 
> Jeez, are clinical histopath labs just sweat-shops?
> 
> It's no wonder histopathologists feel overworked and underappreciated.
> 
> Jerry Ricks
> Research Scientist
> University of Washington
> Department of Pathology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:14:06 -0500
> > From: trathborne <@t> somerset-healthcare.com
> > To: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu; tbraud <@t> holyredeemer.com
> > Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: testing cutting ability during an interview
> > CC: 
> > 
> > We also have the staff talk to the applicant during this process. It gives you a good idea if the person can talk and cut at the same time. The last thing anyone wants is a histotech that has to stop sectioning during a conversation!
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> > [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu]On Behalf Of Rene J
> > Buesa
> > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:05 AM
> > To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Terri Braud
> > Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: testing cutting ability during an interview
> > 
> > 
> > I for one always required any applicant to prepare 20 slides stained with H&E. I can assure that I selected "difficult" blocks to cut and the applicant was required to sign a disclaimer that included that s/he he knew how to section and avoid injuries.
> > The whole process was timed (to get a first idea about productivity) and I evaluated and graded the slides at the end.
> > The results were used as one of the elements to decide about offering the position (the fundamental) but I waited until all the applicants had completed the tests so sometimes the applicant had to be contacted a few days later to let him/her know about the results.
> > René J.
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Terri Braud <tbraud <@t> holyredeemer.com> wrote:
> > 
> > From: Terri Braud <tbraud <@t> holyredeemer.com>
> > Subject: [Histonet] RE: testing cutting ability during an interview
> > To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> > Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 8:57 AM
> > 
> > >From a recent digest:
> > <If you want to know if someone you are interviewing can really section or
> > stain, set them down at a microtome during the interview process, and watch
> > them.> 
> > 
> > I have a question about the following statement plucked from a recent digest.
> > What are the legal ramifications if a person cuts themselves during an
> > interview? 
> > We've had this discussion at my place of employment and came to the
> > decision that it would leave us open to a legal liability.
> > I would love to hear some discussion on this subject, as well as any
> > experiences that others have had.
> > Terri
> > 
> > Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP)
> > Anatomic Pathology Supervisor
> > Laboratory
> > Holy Redeemer Hospital and Medical Center
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
> > 
> > This E-Mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which
> > it was sent. It may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential,
> > and the use or disclosure of such information may also be restricted under
> > applicable
> > federal and state law. If you received this communication in error, please do
> > not
> > distribute any part of it or retain any copies, and delete the original E-Mail.
> > Please notify the sender of any error by E-Mail.
> > 
> > Thank you for your cooperation.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Histonet mailing list
> > Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > Histonet mailing list
> > Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
> > 
> > 
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> > This message and any included attachments are from Somerset Medical Center
> > and are intended only for the addressee.  The information contained in this
> > message is confidential and may contain privileged, confidential,
> > proprietary and/or trade secret information entitled to protection and/or
> > exemption from disclosure under applicable law.  Unauthorized forwarding,
> > printing, copying, distribution, or use of such information is strictly
> > prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you are not the addressee, please
> > promptly delete this message and notify the sender of the delivery error
> > by e-mail or you may call Somerset Medical Center's computer Help Desk
> > at 908-685-2200, ext. 4050.
> > 
> > Be sure to visit Somerset Medical Center's Web site - 
> > www.somersetmedicalcenter.com - for the most up-to-date news, 
> > event listings, health information and more.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live(tm) Hotmail®...more than just e-mail. 
> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________
> Histonet mailing list
> Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Histonet mailing list
> Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009