[Histonet] Practical Exam

Mon Feb 23 10:33:23 CST 2009

I've returned from a day off to an inbox stuffed with messages about the decision to eliminate the practical for the certification exam. I apologize if someone has already commented on this as I've got lots of reading to do in order to catch up.

A very large reason the practical exam was eliminated was the very high pass rate. I don't have hard data to give you but it is my understanding that the practical pass rate exceeded 95% (my current "guestimate" based on my recollection of information I was given a few years ago)  which to a testing agency implies that the exam is unnecessary if most taking it have no difficulty passing. 

Some of this success was thought to be the result of special stain automation being commonly available. Rene's comment (#1 below) was relevant to the observed high pass rate and the awareness that some examinees may have been using automation to complete their stains.

The stark reality was that the vast majority of examinees passed the practical but a significant percentage were unsuccessful with the written portion of the exam. In response to this observation the ASCP in latter years insisted that the written exam had to be passed first before the practical could be submitted for grading.

Vinnie Della Speranza
Manager for Anatomic Pathology Services
Medical University of South Carolina
165 Ashley Avenue  Suite 309
Charleston, South Carolina 29425
Tel: (843) 792-6353
Fax: (843) 792-8974

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell, Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize "might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R <Barry.R.Rittman <@t> uth.tmc.edu> wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R <Barry.R.Rittman <@t> uth.tmc.edu>
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" <victor <@t> pathology.washington.edu>, "Histonet" <Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned, useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 

________________________________________
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias [victor <@t> pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting...... As far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
victor <@t> pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
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