[Histonet] RE: Histology CSE- Dead Skunk Inquiries!

[Judith L. Williams]

Greetings histo world - just a fix it note- Jason did not work on the project it was Brandon Rogers.  Sorry - got the computer guys confused with the Flash
video folks - must be my non- computer background! sorry Brandon!
anyway - he did a great job on it!
Judith



Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Judith L. Williams wrote:

> HI -  I am Judith Williams, the creator of DSI!!! along with Jason Kruse.  I 
> was the instructor at Clover Park Tech College last year and then I took 
> another job at Univ of WAshington. I designed the idea and text along with 
> Jason, one of their computer experts at the college. He did a fantastic job of 
> making it interesting! He came to the lab and took photos and I explained each 
> step- he took notes then made the cartoons and applied it. He and I worked on 
> it, editing and tweeking it - he is so clever! I really want him to get a lot 
> of credit for it. Isn't it wonderful!  He and I are going to make CD's of it to 
> send out for advertising histotechnology.  Will let you know about when they 
> are going to be ready.
> Glad you all enjoyed it. I am a huge CSI fan - so naturally we did that twist!
> cheers to all histoworld!!!   We need to sell this career - its great!
>
>
>
> Judith Williams, PhD, HT(ASCP)
> Department of Comparative Medicine
> University of Washington
> Seattle, WA
>
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Cheri Miller wrote:
>
>> I agree, its very clever!  I have saved it to share with my department!
>> Cheryl Miller HT (ASCP)
>> Histology Supervisor
>> Physicians Laboratory,P.C.
>> Omaha, Ne.
>> 402 738 5052
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Tim
>> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:37 AM
>> To: Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histonet Vacancies
>> 
>> 
>> Patty, Thanks for the link to the new program. And the histology "DSI"
>> game on the site is brilliant!!
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Morken
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Patti
>> Loykasek
>> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:41 AM
>> To: Dan Dan; Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Histonet] Histonet Vacancies
>> 
>> Well said, Dan. I do have one small caveat, there is a new school in the
>> Northwest, Tacoma WA area. It is at Clover Park Technical College. Check
>> it out at www.cptc.edu. The area histotechs have been quite supportive,
>> and I think the program is off to a great start.
>> 
>> 
>> Patti Loykasek BS, HTL, QIHC
>> PhenoPath Laboratories
>> Seattle, WA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I'll add my two-cents worth. It's hard to believe that after 25 years
>>> in this business that the histotech "shortage" situation is pretty
>>> much the same as it was long ago. There have certainly been
>>> improvements in education and training of people in histology, but for
>> 
>>> the most part (99%??) people just fall into histology rather than pick
>> 
>>> it at some point in school. In fact, it is a very rare day when I meet
>> 
>>> someone who went to school for histotechnology, At this date there is
>>> still only one school on the west coast, and it is not the same school
>> that existed for a while in Seattle!
>>> The new one is in southern california. I looked into starting a
>>> histotechnology course here in the SF Bay Area, but it takes a long
>>> while with lots of justification and scrounging for equipment and if I
>> 
>>> wanted to do it full time the pay would be half as much as I make now.
>> 
>>> I could do it part time but then I'd be working 60-70 hours a week
>>> rather than 50 I do now. For the time being I give presentations to
>>> the local junior colleges. I may expand that to high schools. I know
>>> they are interested in getting speakers, but finding the time...
>>> 
>>> I work in the biotech field as an IHC lab manger. We don't require
>>> HT/HTL/QIHC (though would love to have them!)but it is still very
>>> difficult to get experienced histotechs and nearly impossible to get
>>> experienced IHC techs around here. Most of the people I interview are
>>> from the research field who may have done some IHC at some point. And
>>> the ones who have good IHC experience are making very high salaries
>>> that our company gags at matching. It is not possible to recruit out
>>> of the Bay Area because the cost of housing is so high that no one
>>> that is not already living here can afford to move here. Even getting
>>> someone from southern cal is difficult - justifiying relocation
>>> expenses is difficult. It is kind of a joke that the experienced IHC
>>> techs know each other and spend their careers trading places at the
>>> varioius companies. Anthony is quite right that it takes a lot of
>> effort to educate HR and upper management about the need for higher pay.
>>> They really have a hard time justifying the same pay for a
>>> technologist that a new PhD will also make.
>>> 
>>> On top of that we have loads of (legal) immigrants from Asia here and
>>> they are quite willing to work for lower pay to get a start. It is
>>> very common to have PhD level people, and even immigrant MD's (who
>>> can't get board certified here, mainly due to lanquage difficulties)
>> working as lab techs.
>>> Who is going to hire a AA/BS histotech when they can get a PhD who is
>>> happy to do the work and able to contribute to R&D at a higher level
>>> than most techs?
>>> 
>>> There is a huge disparity between what hospitals and private
>>> diagnostic labs pay. The local Kaiser labs and Univeristy hospital
>>> labs pay in the $35 per hour range for basic histology. Senior IHC
>>> techs are in the $45 range. Those places have unions which is why the
>>> pay is so high. On the other hand, private labs will pay
>>> experieinced,certified people almost that much, but new, inexperienced
>> 
>>> people may be paid $15-20/hr and the lab is not willing to help them
>>> get to their HT/HTL because they don't want to pay them more, and
>>> could lose them to the hospitals once trained. This is not speculation
>> 
>>> but things I have had told to me first hand from techs who work in
>> these places.
>>> 
>>> It is a little harder now for histotechs to be trained on the job due
>>> to the AA requirement. Most OJT people I have met were working in the
>>> hospital at some other job - lab assisant, dishwasher, etc before
>>> getting (accidently) into histology. A person working on an AA is
>>> probably not working in those jobs and probably does not even know a
>> histology lab exists.
>>> 
>>> Obviously the need is to get exposure for histotechnology. The NSH
>>> makes brochures and videos available and does a career day for high
>>> schools students at the national meeting every year (I've helped at
>>> those). This is a good foundation. But it will really take every state
>> 
>>> society and every interested histotech to do SOMETHING to promote the
>>> field. Science teachers at high schools are very interested in having
>>> working people come in to talk about a field. If someone in every city
>> 
>>> could do that it would go a long way towards promoting the field.
>>> Maybe the key is to have NSH come up with a standardised presentation
>>> that anyone can give along with some props to make it a tactile
>> experience.
>>> 
>>> But, after the promotion you have to realize that it takes a huge
>>> amount of initiative on the students part to follow through. They have
>> 
>>> to start work on, or finish, an AA /BS degree, make contact with a lab
>> 
>>> that is interested in training people, get the position, do on-the-job
>> 
>>> (maybe at the same time as school) and THEN work on learning the
>>> matieral for an HT/HTL pretty much alone. Their facing a 3 to 4 year
>>> process. Longer if they get a bachelors degree. Key is finding labs to
>> training that value HT/HTL certification.
>>> Starting HT/HTL study groups would be a good way to get people
>> motivated.
>>> This is the kind of thing a state society can do. Individuals can to
>>> it as well, but it helps to have a group for motivation.
>>> 
>>> Of course, that is why it has not happened - it depends too much on a
>>> few super-motivated individuals. The schools don't hear of a demand
>>> and so do not have programs. No programs means students never hear
>>> about it. Since students don't hear about it they can't even consider
>> it. A vicious circle.
>>> 
>>> Imagine if the schools had students asking about courses leading to
>>> histotech certification or at least a chance at a job that leads to
>>> certification. That gets the schools attention. Junior colleges
>>> especially are very interested in providing trained people to the
>>> local job market. For them jobs = program justification.
>>> 
>>> Think about it.
>>> 
>>> Dan in Danville (a pseudonom to allow free speech)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Pam:
>>> 
>>> For a long time histologists have gotten the short end of the stick. I
>> 
>>> believe that the current situation is a symptom of the problem and is
>>> due to a history of underpayment.
>>> 
>>> We cannot solve the problem by artificial means. This country is based
>> 
>>> on the free market system. We must work with the system not against
>>> it, but first we must clearly understand the problem: Not enough
>>> techs, increasing barriers to entry into the profession, lack of
>>> visibility, no central planning to fix or even research the problem.
>>> 
>>> We need to work to bring up the wages of HTs all across the country.
>>> If we do this, we will bring Histology to the attention of people in
>>> education at the moment.
>>> 
>>> We can only get out of it by concentrating on increasing the number of
>> 
>>> facilities that are prepared to take on new graduates and spend the
>>> time to get their practical skills up to speed.
>>> 
>>> I think you are doing a valuable job bringing this situation back to
>>> the surface. We need to keep the momentum up and not let it die on the
>> 
>>> vine of this valuable forum as a forgotten conversation. So, I ask my
>>> peers: What can we do to address this situation in an organized,
>>> effective manner? Who in our profession is responsible for being our
>> cheerleader?
>>> 
>>> Finally, Pam, I want to say for myself that I encourage all
>> conversation.
>>> 
>>> I will never be offended by a question, and I will always try to
>>> answer questions in a way that remembers there is a person behind it.
>>> No flame retardant needed here.
>>> 
>>> I make my money from placing people on a temporary and permanent
>> basis.
>>> 
>>> I am also a Histologist first and foremost and believe that patient
>>> safety is number one and understaffed laboratories experience more
>> mistakes.
>>> 
>>> Keep up the good work, Pam.
>>> 
>>> All my best,
>>> 
>>> Anthony Williams BSc. HT
>>> 
>>> Histotech Exchange LLC
>>> 
>>> 19 Whitmore St.
>>> 
>>> Lexington, VA 24450
>>> 
>>> T 1 (302) 383 9780
>>> 
>>> F 1 (540) 463 3583
>>> 
>>> anthony <@t> histotechexchange.com
>>> 
>>>> I know this is a problem that has plagued facilities for years and I
>>> 
>>>> too have noticed a change in the past 2 years. Yes, the histology
>>> 
>>>> programs nationwide produce a great albeit small group of talented
>>> 
>>>> people every year but the pool of available histo techs for permanent
>>> 
>>>> positions has shrunk even more in recent years. At the risk of being
>>> 
>>>> "flamed" by travel companies I have to say that you are losing alot
>>>> of
>>> 
>>>> techs to travel positions. In the past 2 years of all of the histo
>>> 
>>>> techs I have had contact with over half only want to work in
>>>> permanent
>>> 
>>>> positions the rest either want to continue as travelers or become
>>> 
>>>> travelers. Think about it... they get a higher rate of pay, benefits
>>> 
>>>> and living expenses paid for. For these people it is a "better deal"
>>> 
>>>> than committing to one facility. As a matter of fact it is a "better
>>> 
>>>> deal" than a temp/travel position in any other field outside of
>>> 
>>>> healthcare. Facilities who take the "quick solution" of hiring travel
>>> 
>>>> techs are contributing to the shortage. May I offer some solutions?
>>>> Some
>>> creative hiring strategies?
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Here are some ideas I would like to share:
>>> 
>>>> 1. If you are using travel techs do it with a temp to perm clause -
>>> 
>>>> but be firm. If a tech works for you as a temp make sure they are at
>>> 
>>>> least considering converting to a permanent employee at the end of
>>>> the
>>> 
>>>> contract. If not don't extend, have your travel company send someone
>>> 
>>>> else who would consider converting to a permanent position. And make
>>> 
>>>> questions about their intentions part of your interview process the
>>> 
>>>> same as you would if you were interviewing a candidate from out of
>>> 
>>>> state for a permanent position.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 2. Human Resources - Many of your allied health recruiters don't seem
>>> 
>>>> to realize that histo techs don't grow on trees. So many times I see
>>> 
>>>> facilities lose great techs because the hiring process has dragged
>>>> out
>>> 
>>>> and the candidate ends up taking a position with a facility that can
>>> 
>>>> move faster. Stay on top of your hr people especially once you know
>>> 
>>>> they have a histology candidate.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 3. How about techs from Canada? There are alot of talented techs in
>>> 
>>>> Canada that are interested in moving to the states and the process is
>>> 
>>>> relatively easy due to NAFTA and the F1 visa.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 4. How about techs that need sponsorship on an H-1 visa? I know alot
>>> 
>>>> of companies shy away from this alternative because of the length of
>>> 
>>>> time it can take to process a visa application but I think that if
>>>> you
>>> 
>>>> take a look at the time it takes to find a tech at all against the
>>> 
>>>> time it would take to process an H-1 visa it is quickly becoming 6 of
>> 
>>>> one
>>> vs.
>>> 
>>>> half dozen of another. I mean what difference does it make if it
>>> 
>>>> takes up to 8 weeks to process an H-1 visa vs. 2-3 months to identify
>>> 
>>>> a histology candidate?
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Your best bet is to get with your Human Resources department and
>>> 
>>>> strategize, educate them on the challenges and shortages you are
>> facing.
>>> 
>>>> Discuss some of these options or others you might come up with.
>>> 
>>>> I hope this helps!!
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Thank You!
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Pam Barker
>>> 
>>>> President
>>> 
>>>> RELIA
>>> 
>>>> Specialists in Allied Healthcare Recruiting
>>> 
>>>> 5703 Red Bug Lake Road #330
>>> 
>>>> Winter Springs, FL 32708-4969
>>> 
>>>> Phone: (407)657-2027
>>> 
>>>> Cell: (407)353-5070
>>> 
>>>> FAX: (407)678-2788
>>> 
>>>> E-mail: relia1 <@t> earthlink.net
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>
>
> Judith Williams, PhD, HT(ASCP)
> Research Scientist
> Department of Comparative Medicine
> University of Washington
> Seattle, WA 98195
>
>
>
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Judith Williams, PhD, HT(ASCP)
Research Scientist
Department of Comparative Medicine
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195