[Histonet] fast/slow twitch myosin
Christina Thurby
christina.thurby <@t> bms.com
Thu Apr 10 13:43:30 CDT 2008
Vinnie,
We've had really good success using antibodies from Sigma doing a double
label in multiple species (rat, dog and NHP). Antibodies are:
Slow Myosin, - Sigma clone NOQ7.5.4D 1:4000
Fast Myosin, - Sigma clone MY-32 1:300
You can contact me directly if you have any questions.
Christina Thurby
BMS
812-429-8097
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow twitch striated
> muscle (Della Speranza, Vinnie)
> 2. Histo vacancies (Martin, Gary)
> 3. Re: Re: Nuclear Envelope/Membrane (Vernon Dailey) (Richard)
> 4. RE: Histonet Vacancies (Morken, Tim)
> 5. AW: [Histonet] antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow
> twitchstriated muscle (Andi Kappeler)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:44:54 -0400
>From: "Della Speranza, Vinnie" <dellav <@t> musc.edu>
>Subject: [Histonet] antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow
> twitch striated muscle
>To: "histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu"
> <histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
>Message-ID:
> <D2305C4BBC131346B131DD53870C62DFCB9783BF5B <@t> EVS4.clinlan.local>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Can someone recommend a source for antibodies to myosin that will differentiate fast and slow twitch fibers? Preferably products you use and are happy with.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Vinnie Della Speranza
>Manager for Anatomic Pathology Services
>Medical University of South Carolina
>165 Ashley Avenue Suite 309
>Charleston, South Carolina 29425
>Ph: (843) 792-6353
>Fax: (843) 792-8974
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:07:45 -0700
>From: "Martin, Gary" <gmartin <@t> marshallmedical.org>
>Subject: [Histonet] Histo vacancies
>To: <Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
>Message-ID:
> <6ED9D4252F278841A0593D3D788AF24C02246F81 <@t> mailsvr.MARSHMED.local>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>I have been reading these listing with great interest ... Dan's writing
>prompted this listing. I am one of those people who fell into histology
>because we did not have backup for our "certified" histo tech at our
>pathology lab. I do not have the "proper education" to qualify for a
>certification. The histo tech that I backup helped very little in my
>training, and shares a bit of the attitude I read on this listing
>sometimes, which is everybody should be certified or else they are not
>credible techs. I came in on my weekends and after hours to train
>myself on expired blocks, while putting myself through Freida Carson's
>self instruction text.
>
>
>
>I do agree that it is probably best to be officially trained, but with
>the shortage I believe that there should be some sort of variance to the
>rules (there may be ... but I haven't found it). I presently work with
>the local high schools in a program I helped developed called the Health
>Academy, which introduces students to different areas of health care via
>a shadowing program. The shadowing program and the presentations we
>give in the class rooms provide a great opportunity to introduce these
>student to histology. The question from these students is "where do you
>get trained for this ,how long does it take, and what are the wages"
>The answer to that question is usually not what they want to hear
>(exampled by these listings). One kid told me "if you get accepted to
>the plumbers training program through the union, you will start working
>on the job immediately, and be earning about thirty to forty thousand a
>year. Your requirements are, to attend school a couple of times a week
>(in the evenings) for four years. After completion you are a journeyman
>earning fifty to seventy thousand a year. Very hard to compete with
>that !
>
>I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me the restriction are
>getting tighter. I think there should be some levels of training
>allowed with an easier way to move forward to deeper training on the
>job. Thanks to all who have read and participated in this very
>interesting discussion
>
>Gary
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:19:52 +0100
>From: "Richard" <richardwhorobin <@t> tomcroy.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re: Nuclear Envelope/Membrane (Vernon Dailey)
>To: <histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
>Message-ID: <000d01c89b1e$53560690$0200a8c0 <@t> delldim4500>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>Eric said, and I respond:
>
>
>
>>>>Use POPO3 Iodide, it is a nuclear membrane stain.
>>>>
>>>>
>
>This is in live intact cells is it?
>If so, have you a reference for this Eric, or indeed personal experience? I looked at the Invitrogen site for POPO3 [yes] and at their list of references and couldnt see anything plausible Do tell!
>
>Bye --- Richard Horobin
>
>Note: I'll be away at a conference, and hanging out with buddies, in Vermont from the 17th April to 6th May 2008.
>
>Academic: Div Neuroscience & Biomedical Systems, IBLS, University of Glasgow
>Home: Springbank, 20 Tomcroy Terrace, Pitlochry PH16 5JA, Scotland
>T 01796-474480 -- E RichardWHorobin <@t> tomcroy.co.uk
>"One does not need to live a burden-driven life"
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:36:55 -0400
>From: "Morken, Tim" <tim.morken <@t> thermofisher.com>
>Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histonet Vacancies
>To: <Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
>Message-ID:
> <6BFF6D137DF6BC43B33891BA96E83B190156C143 <@t> PGHCR-EXMB-VS-1.na.fshrnet.com>
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Patty, Thanks for the link to the new program. And the histology "DSI"
>game on the site is brilliant!!
>
>
>Tim Morken
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Patti
>Loykasek
>Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:41 AM
>To: Dan Dan; Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>Subject: Re: [Histonet] Histonet Vacancies
>
>Well said, Dan. I do have one small caveat, there is a new school in the
>Northwest, Tacoma WA area. It is at Clover Park Technical College. Check
>it out at www.cptc.edu. The area histotechs have been quite supportive,
>and I think the program is off to a great start.
>
>
>Patti Loykasek BS, HTL, QIHC
>PhenoPath Laboratories
>Seattle, WA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>I'll add my two-cents worth. It's hard to believe that after 25 years
>>in this business that the histotech "shortage" situation is pretty
>>much the same as it was long ago. There have certainly been
>>improvements in education and training of people in histology, but for
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the most part (99%??) people just fall into histology rather than pick
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>it at some point in school. In fact, it is a very rare day when I meet
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>someone who went to school for histotechnology, At this date there is
>>still only one school on the west coast, and it is not the same school
>>
>>
>that existed for a while in Seattle!
>
>
>>The new one is in southern california. I looked into starting a
>>histotechnology course here in the SF Bay Area, but it takes a long
>>while with lots of justification and scrounging for equipment and if I
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>wanted to do it full time the pay would be half as much as I make now.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>I could do it part time but then I'd be working 60-70 hours a week
>>rather than 50 I do now. For the time being I give presentations to
>>the local junior colleges. I may expand that to high schools. I know
>>they are interested in getting speakers, but finding the time...
>>
>>I work in the biotech field as an IHC lab manger. We don't require
>>HT/HTL/QIHC (though would love to have them!)but it is still very
>>difficult to get experienced histotechs and nearly impossible to get
>>experienced IHC techs around here. Most of the people I interview are
>>from the research field who may have done some IHC at some point. And
>>the ones who have good IHC experience are making very high salaries
>>that our company gags at matching. It is not possible to recruit out
>>of the Bay Area because the cost of housing is so high that no one
>>that is not already living here can afford to move here. Even getting
>>someone from southern cal is difficult - justifiying relocation
>>expenses is difficult. It is kind of a joke that the experienced IHC
>>techs know each other and spend their careers trading places at the
>>varioius companies. Anthony is quite right that it takes a lot of
>>
>>
>effort to educate HR and upper management about the need for higher pay.
>
>
>>They really have a hard time justifying the same pay for a
>>technologist that a new PhD will also make.
>>
>>On top of that we have loads of (legal) immigrants from Asia here and
>>they are quite willing to work for lower pay to get a start. It is
>>very common to have PhD level people, and even immigrant MD's (who
>>can't get board certified here, mainly due to lanquage difficulties)
>>
>>
>working as lab techs.
>
>
>>Who is going to hire a AA/BS histotech when they can get a PhD who is
>>happy to do the work and able to contribute to R&D at a higher level
>>than most techs?
>>
>>There is a huge disparity between what hospitals and private
>>diagnostic labs pay. The local Kaiser labs and Univeristy hospital
>>labs pay in the $35 per hour range for basic histology. Senior IHC
>>techs are in the $45 range. Those places have unions which is why the
>>pay is so high. On the other hand, private labs will pay
>>experieinced,certified people almost that much, but new, inexperienced
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>people may be paid $15-20/hr and the lab is not willing to help them
>>get to their HT/HTL because they don't want to pay them more, and
>>could lose them to the hospitals once trained. This is not speculation
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>but things I have had told to me first hand from techs who work in
>>
>>
>these places.
>
>
>>It is a little harder now for histotechs to be trained on the job due
>>to the AA requirement. Most OJT people I have met were working in the
>>hospital at some other job - lab assisant, dishwasher, etc before
>>getting (accidently) into histology. A person working on an AA is
>>probably not working in those jobs and probably does not even know a
>>
>>
>histology lab exists.
>
>
>>Obviously the need is to get exposure for histotechnology. The NSH
>>makes brochures and videos available and does a career day for high
>>schools students at the national meeting every year (I've helped at
>>those). This is a good foundation. But it will really take every state
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>society and every interested histotech to do SOMETHING to promote the
>>field. Science teachers at high schools are very interested in having
>>working people come in to talk about a field. If someone in every city
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>could do that it would go a long way towards promoting the field.
>>Maybe the key is to have NSH come up with a standardised presentation
>>that anyone can give along with some props to make it a tactile
>>
>>
>experience.
>
>
>>But, after the promotion you have to realize that it takes a huge
>>amount of initiative on the students part to follow through. They have
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>to start work on, or finish, an AA /BS degree, make contact with a lab
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>that is interested in training people, get the position, do on-the-job
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>(maybe at the same time as school) and THEN work on learning the
>>matieral for an HT/HTL pretty much alone. Their facing a 3 to 4 year
>>process. Longer if they get a bachelors degree. Key is finding labs to
>>
>>
>training that value HT/HTL certification.
>
>
>>Starting HT/HTL study groups would be a good way to get people
>>
>>
>motivated.
>
>
>>This is the kind of thing a state society can do. Individuals can to
>>it as well, but it helps to have a group for motivation.
>>
>>Of course, that is why it has not happened - it depends too much on a
>>few super-motivated individuals. The schools don't hear of a demand
>>and so do not have programs. No programs means students never hear
>>about it. Since students don't hear about it they can't even consider
>>
>>
>it. A vicious circle.
>
>
>>Imagine if the schools had students asking about courses leading to
>>histotech certification or at least a chance at a job that leads to
>>certification. That gets the schools attention. Junior colleges
>>especially are very interested in providing trained people to the
>>local job market. For them jobs = program justification.
>>
>>Think about it.
>>
>>Dan in Danville (a pseudonom to allow free speech)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Dear Pam:
>>
>>For a long time histologists have gotten the short end of the stick. I
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>believe that the current situation is a symptom of the problem and is
>>due to a history of underpayment.
>>
>>We cannot solve the problem by artificial means. This country is based
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>on the free market system. We must work with the system not against
>>it, but first we must clearly understand the problem: Not enough
>>techs, increasing barriers to entry into the profession, lack of
>>visibility, no central planning to fix or even research the problem.
>>
>>We need to work to bring up the wages of HTs all across the country.
>>If we do this, we will bring Histology to the attention of people in
>>education at the moment.
>>
>>We can only get out of it by concentrating on increasing the number of
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>facilities that are prepared to take on new graduates and spend the
>>time to get their practical skills up to speed.
>>
>>I think you are doing a valuable job bringing this situation back to
>>the surface. We need to keep the momentum up and not let it die on the
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>vine of this valuable forum as a forgotten conversation. So, I ask my
>>peers: What can we do to address this situation in an organized,
>>effective manner? Who in our profession is responsible for being our
>>
>>
>cheerleader?
>
>
>>Finally, Pam, I want to say for myself that I encourage all
>>
>>
>conversation.
>
>
>>I will never be offended by a question, and I will always try to
>>answer questions in a way that remembers there is a person behind it.
>>No flame retardant needed here.
>>
>>I make my money from placing people on a temporary and permanent
>>
>>
>basis.
>
>
>>I am also a Histologist first and foremost and believe that patient
>>safety is number one and understaffed laboratories experience more
>>
>>
>mistakes.
>
>
>>Keep up the good work, Pam.
>>
>>All my best,
>>
>>Anthony Williams BSc. HT
>>
>>Histotech Exchange LLC
>>
>>19 Whitmore St.
>>
>>Lexington, VA 24450
>>
>>T 1 (302) 383 9780
>>
>>F 1 (540) 463 3583
>>
>>anthony <@t> histotechexchange.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>I know this is a problem that has plagued facilities for years and I
>>>
>>>
>>>too have noticed a change in the past 2 years. Yes, the histology
>>>
>>>
>>>programs nationwide produce a great albeit small group of talented
>>>
>>>
>>>people every year but the pool of available histo techs for permanent
>>>
>>>
>>>positions has shrunk even more in recent years. At the risk of being
>>>
>>>
>>>"flamed" by travel companies I have to say that you are losing alot
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>techs to travel positions. In the past 2 years of all of the histo
>>>
>>>
>>>techs I have had contact with over half only want to work in
>>>permanent
>>>
>>>
>>>positions the rest either want to continue as travelers or become
>>>
>>>
>>>travelers. Think about it... they get a higher rate of pay, benefits
>>>
>>>
>>>and living expenses paid for. For these people it is a "better deal"
>>>
>>>
>>>than committing to one facility. As a matter of fact it is a "better
>>>
>>>
>>>deal" than a temp/travel position in any other field outside of
>>>
>>>
>>>healthcare. Facilities who take the "quick solution" of hiring travel
>>>
>>>
>>>techs are contributing to the shortage. May I offer some solutions?
>>>Some
>>>
>>>
>>creative hiring strategies?
>>
>>
>>
>>>Here are some ideas I would like to share:
>>>
>>>
>>>1. If you are using travel techs do it with a temp to perm clause -
>>>
>>>
>>>but be firm. If a tech works for you as a temp make sure they are at
>>>
>>>
>>>least considering converting to a permanent employee at the end of
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>contract. If not don't extend, have your travel company send someone
>>>
>>>
>>>else who would consider converting to a permanent position. And make
>>>
>>>
>>>questions about their intentions part of your interview process the
>>>
>>>
>>>same as you would if you were interviewing a candidate from out of
>>>
>>>
>>>state for a permanent position.
>>>
>>>
>>>2. Human Resources - Many of your allied health recruiters don't seem
>>>
>>>
>>>to realize that histo techs don't grow on trees. So many times I see
>>>
>>>
>>>facilities lose great techs because the hiring process has dragged
>>>out
>>>
>>>
>>>and the candidate ends up taking a position with a facility that can
>>>
>>>
>>>move faster. Stay on top of your hr people especially once you know
>>>
>>>
>>>they have a histology candidate.
>>>
>>>
>>>3. How about techs from Canada? There are alot of talented techs in
>>>
>>>
>>>Canada that are interested in moving to the states and the process is
>>>
>>>
>>>relatively easy due to NAFTA and the F1 visa.
>>>
>>>
>>>4. How about techs that need sponsorship on an H-1 visa? I know alot
>>>
>>>
>>>of companies shy away from this alternative because of the length of
>>>
>>>
>>>time it can take to process a visa application but I think that if
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>take a look at the time it takes to find a tech at all against the
>>>
>>>
>>>time it would take to process an H-1 visa it is quickly becoming 6 of
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>one
>>>
>>>
>>vs.
>>
>>
>>
>>>half dozen of another. I mean what difference does it make if it
>>>
>>>
>>>takes up to 8 weeks to process an H-1 visa vs. 2-3 months to identify
>>>
>>>
>>>a histology candidate?
>>>
>>>
>>>Your best bet is to get with your Human Resources department and
>>>
>>>
>>>strategize, educate them on the challenges and shortages you are
>>>
>>>
>facing.
>
>
>>>Discuss some of these options or others you might come up with.
>>>
>>>
>>>I hope this helps!!
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank You!
>>>
>>>
>>>Pam Barker
>>>
>>>
>>>President
>>>
>>>
>>>RELIA
>>>
>>>
>>>Specialists in Allied Healthcare Recruiting
>>>
>>>
>>>5703 Red Bug Lake Road #330
>>>
>>>
>>>Winter Springs, FL 32708-4969
>>>
>>>
>>>Phone: (407)657-2027
>>>
>>>
>>>Cell: (407)353-5070
>>>
>>>
>>>FAX: (407)678-2788
>>>
>>>
>>>E-mail: relia1 <@t> earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>Histonet mailing list
>>>
>>>
>>>Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>>>
>>>
>>*http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet*<http://lis
>>ts.utsou thwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:20:50 +0200
>From: "Andi Kappeler" <kappeler <@t> patho.unibe.ch>
>Subject: AW: [Histonet] antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow
> twitchstriated muscle
>To: "'Della Speranza, Vinnie'" <dellav <@t> musc.edu>, "Histonet"
> <histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
>Message-ID: <003a01c89b26$d788abe0$17955c82 <@t> pi23>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi Vinnie
>
>We routinely use the following mouse monoclonal antibodies on FFPE human
>skeletal muscle:
>Myosin I (slow), clone NOQ7.5.4D, Sigma M-8421; working conc. 5 ug Ig/ml,
>HIER in 10 mM citrate buffer, pH 6.0, pressure cooker.
>Myosin II (fast), clone MY-31, Sigma M.4276; working conc. 10 ug Ig/ml, HIER
>as above.
>Hope this helps.
>
>Andi Kappeler
>Insitute of Pathology, University of Bern, Switzerland
>
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Della
>Speranza, Vinnie
>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. April 2008 16:45
>An: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>Betreff: [Histonet] antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow
>twitchstriated muscle
>
>Can someone recommend a source for antibodies to myosin that will
>differentiate fast and slow twitch fibers? Preferably products you use and
>are happy with.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Vinnie Della Speranza
>Manager for Anatomic Pathology Services
>Medical University of South Carolina
>165 Ashley Avenue Suite 309
>Charleston, South Carolina 29425
>Ph: (843) 792-6353
>Fax: (843) 792-8974
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Histonet mailing list
>Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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