[Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

Wed Oct 11 05:36:43 CDT 2006

I had some experience using the automated embedder. The two biggest disadvantages were that the pathologist has control over the way the specimen is orientated the histotech is left totally out of the equation. Once the tissue is placed into the cassette it is difficult to open again. Also Rene is correct, there is a plastic lid you have to cut thru before getting to the tissue. This presented a big problem with biopsies because the tissue would adhere to the lid and by the time you cleared away the lid you may also had cut thru the biopsy.

Betsy Molinari HT (ASCP)
Texas Heart Institute
Cardiovascular Pathology
6770 Bertner Ave.
Houston,TX 77030
832-355-6524
832-355-6812 (fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:32 AM
To: Wesley Simms, MD; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Re: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

Wesley:
  As you perfectly know, tissue processors "liberated" the histotech from the "slavery" of hand processing but we still have to see another "liberations".

  SakuraFineTek now has also a piece of equipment for automated embedding that has so many restrictions regarding the initial cassetting and has so many expensive complements that I doubt "will fly" specially because the cassettes are made of a plastic that has to be sectioned ALONG with the tissue. I have not hear histotechs screaming about that yet because I don't think they have been able to sell it.

  On the other hand, with regards to MW assisted technology for tissue processing the only really convenient are those with the "walk away" capability and so far only the PATHOS from Milestone and the Xpress from Sakura FineTek provide it.
  Any other single chamber MW oven that needs the handling of the cassettes by the histotech from one station to the other is just returning to old "slavery" days.
  MW assisted tissue processing is something to take with several, not just one grain of salt.

  On the other hand if you are able to process tissue quickly just to be sitting before sectioning, makes no sense. MW assisted tissue processing without rescheduling is a waste of resources, as are those MW tissue processors with 180 blocks capabilities: to get to such a large batch you will need several hours of grossing / casseting and what are you going to do?: start the processor at 4 PM and start sectioning at 7PM through the night? Promote an even worse histotech slavery? I don't think so.
  This whole issue has to be analyzed cautiously; this is not a band wagon to jump into without thinking it well!
  Just my opinion though!
  René J.

"Wesley Simms, MD" <wsimms <@t> mcintoshclinic.com> wrote:
          Rene,
  Yes indeed, I was told last week by the nice pathologist from Miami (whose name eludes me at the moment) who Sakura brought in to teach us to use the new grossing tools that raw tissue, even if sliced at 1.5mm thick, could not be put on the machine.  He quoted the 4 hour figure for breast tissue in particular.  When I saw the graph of Miami's FTE staffing for HT's and pathologists by time of day (before and after Xpress), I was also puzzled as to how this would translate into any tangible benefit, either cost-wise or by improved patient care.  The only result I could see was that everyone's day is going to start later and be strung out over a longer period of time.  My wife, who is an attorney, summed it up best:"At least with the old processor, something was doing work overnight and being productive.  Now, with the new one, nothing is."
  Wesley Simms
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rene J Buesa 
  To: Wesley Simms, MD ; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:32 AM
  Subject: Re: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

  Dr. Simms:
  According with Morales et al. ("inventors") you can process tissue in the Xpress that has not been previously fixed, now it turns out that you cannot?

  That is another drawback yet, because it is also not true that you will be able to process 120 cassettes in 1 hour; their mathematics do not add up.
  The protocol (2 stations with MW assisted protocol) + 2 "conventional" stations (just convection heating + vacuum) takes 60 minutes to complete (15 min each).
  The only real advantage seems to be that you can introduce 30 cassettes every 15 minutes in the first station.
  This means that you will have 30 cassettes processed in 1 hour, the following 30 (to a total of 60) the next 15 minutes (=75 minutes) and so on until you get to the 120 cassettes after 105 minutes.

  And all of this has nothing to do, has not impacted at all, on the time required for manual work (grossing/cassetting, embedding, trimming and sectioning the blocks) that will amount to a total of 149 minuttes per every 30 cassettes, even allowing that there will be automated instruments to write cassetes, etch slides, routine stain and coverslip.

  The "famous" 120 cassettes / hour turn out to be a total of 105 min. processing + 160 minutes of automated ancillary tasks +  596 minutes of manual work, for a grand total of 861 min =14.4 h / 120 cassettes = 2.4 FTE with 75% time utilization on 8h shifts!

  I could also buy a good house with $250,000!
  Just a few "numbers" about the Xpress (no reagents cost included of course!)
  René J.

"Wesley Simms, MD" <wsimms <@t> mcintoshclinic.com> wrote:
  By "real" time, I refer to the fact that you can't load fresh tissue on the 
Xpress...even if it sliced at the requisite 1.5mm, several hours of fixation 
is required (4 hours for breast). Ergo, the "real" processing time for 
breast on the Xpress is five hours. In terms of cost, I have found a nice 
lakefront house in the Florida panhandle and a new boat that I can buy for 
the same price as an Xpress ($250,000). My informed sources also tell me to 
expect quadrupled reagent costs with the Xpress, so yes, I think your use of 
the term "stratosphere" is appropriate. I don't know the price of the 
STP240, but I cannot imagine that it is as expensive, given that it is, 
essentially, a turbocharged conventional processor. If the STP240's total 
processing time is in the 5 hour ballpark, I would certainly be interested 
in looking at one.
Wesley W. Simms
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jasper, Thomas G." 
To: "Wesley Simms, MD" 
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

Wesley,
Could you clarify a bit? What do you mean by "real" time? And you are 
certain that the two are not comparable in terms of cost. Does this mean 
that the Tissue Tek Express is priced in the "stratosphere" or does it mean 
that the price is justifiable due to "real" time savings? Or is the price 
of the STP420 excessive because it doesn't do what the Tissue Tek Express 
does? Or is it a great deal because it does process quickly at a 
substantially lesser cost?
Your statement begs for more information, because I can't tell where you 
stand on the issue.
Thanks,

Thomas Jasper
AP Supervisor
SMDC
Duluth, MN

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu]On Behalf Of Wesley
Simms, MD
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:21 PM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Re: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

How do the "real" processing times on the STP 420 compare with the Tissue
Tek Xpress? I feel certain that the two are not comparable in terms of
cost.
Wesley W. Simms
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tarango, Mark" 
To: "Henry, Charlene" ;

Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

Works great. I've never had a problem with it. I like that it is two
tissue processors in one (has two chambers that can be ran at the same
time). I've recently heard there are about 10 out there already.
Hopefully someone else will make a comment about it.

Mark Adam Tarango HT(ASCP)
Histology/Immunohistochemistry Supervisor
Nevada Cancer Institute
One Breakthrough Way
Las Vegas, NV 89135
mtarango <@t> nvcancer.org
Direct Line (702) 822-5112
Fax (702) 939-7663

-----Original Message-----
From: Henry, Charlene [mailto:Charlene.Henry <@t> STJUDE.ORG]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 6:39 AM
To: Tarango, Mark
Subject: RE: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

How is the instrument performing for you?

Charlene Henry HT (ASCP), QIHC
Histology/Immunohistochemistry Section Head
Department of Pathology
St. Jude Children's Research Hospital
901-495-3191
fax 901-495-3100

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tarango,
Mark
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:04 PM
To: Angela Bitting; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan. .

I have the STP420. The last time I heard I was the only one in the US
who has one.

Mark Adam Tarango HT(ASCP)
Histology/Immunohistochemistry Supervisor Nevada Cancer Institute One
Breakthrough Way Las Vegas, NV 89135 mtarango <@t> nvcancer.org Direct Line
(702) 822-5112 Fax (702) 939-7663

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Angela
Bitting
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:54 AM
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] STP420 from Richard Allan

Has anyone had experience with this rapid tissue processor?( No vendors
please)

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