[Histonet] 37% formaldehyde & the UK & Europe

Fri Feb 4 10:59:27 CST 2005

Ah...the annual formaldehyde / formalin discussion, destined to recur ad
infinitum.

>From my reading this is what I have been able to deduce: 
Technically, formaldehyde is the gas only (paraformaldehyde being the
polymerized form). ANY solution of formaldehyde in water is technically
termed "formalin". 
This gas in water is a saturated solution at 37% (by weight) or 40% (by
volume). 
Any dilution, then, is a percentage of the saturated mix. 
So 10% formalin is roughly 4% formaldehyde in water. 
Unfortunately, manufacturers ( for example, Fisher) have decided to call the
saturated solution "formaldehyde" thereby forever confusing the issue.
So we have to use terms like "10% formalin  (4% formaldehyde)"  or
"concentrated formaldehyde (37%)" to clarify every time we write a
procedure. 

Here are the Fisher Scientifc products in my catalog.  

Formaldehyde, 37% by weight
Formaldehyde, 40% by volume
Formaldehyde, 10% w/w
Formalin, neutral buffered, 10%
Formalin, 10% solution

Note that Fisher uses "Formaldehyde" for the saturated solution as well as a
solution of 10% by weight (that's 10% formaldehyde in water), and "Formalin"
for the dilution of the saturated solution (4% formaldehyde).

Sigma calls it "Formaldehyde Solution (Formalin) 37% in water."

It doesn't seem to me that anything will change, and for clarity, we'll all
have to keep indicating the actual percentage of formaldehyde our soluions
contain.

Tim Morken

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of LEWIS, MARK
A.
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:53 AM
To: Linda Blazek; RossS <@t> BaylorHealth.edu; brett_connolly <@t> merck.com;
histonet <@t> pathology.swmed.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] 37% formaldehyde & the UK & Europe

Concerning Formaldehyde & Formalin.. I would like to hear from our
colleagues from around the world concerning the terminology and meaning of
the differences between Formaldehyde and Formalin. I was always under the
assumption that Formaldehyde was a gas "put" into water at it's highest
concentration of 37 - 40 %. This 37-40% Formaldehyde when it is diluted with
water then becomes or receives the terminology called Formalin whether it is
10 %, 20% etc... I am over in the UK and have been having some controversy
with my colleagues here in that they want to use "concentrated formalin" for
a particular procedure. If I take the formaldehyde purchased from my vendor
and make up what I call a concentrated solution ( 37% solution), I will have
37% formalin, not the same thing. I feel that is confusing especially for
those of us across the ocean, because I will want to ask How concentrated?
If I hear the word formaldehyde, then I think of the 37-40% that we use to
make up our 10% NBF and I associate that in my mind as concentrate.  I
especially would like to hear from those in other countries across the
world. I even looked at a bottle of Formaldehyde that they have and it says
Formaldehyde (formalin). I'm going to search some texts and talk to some
chemists just because I want to be saying the correct thing without
confusing everyone when it comes to the procedure being done. Thanks !

Mark Lewis

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Linda
Blazek 
	Sent: Thu 2/3/2005 3:07 PM 
	To: RossS <@t> BaylorHealth.edu; brett_connolly <@t> merck.com;
histonet <@t> pathology.swmed.edu 
	Cc: 
	Subject: RE: [Histonet] 37% formaldehyde

	It's probably a good thing I wasn't here to deal with it last night.
	Sometimes my mouth can get me in trouble.  I would have loved to
give
	him the gas.

	>>> "Stapf, Ross" <RossS <@t> BaylorHealth.edu> 02/03/2005 3:04:45 PM >>>

	So he wanted a pure formaldehyde gas?

	I wish you had some around to give him.  :)

	Ah the confusion between formaldehyde, formalin, and 10% NBF.

	It can make for some great "Who's on first" type moments.

	Ross M Stapf
	Histopathology Manager
	Baylor University Medical Center
	3500 Gaston Ave.
	Dallas, TX 75246
	214-820-2465
	214-820-4110 fax
	RossS <@t> baylorhealth.edu

	-----Original Message-----
	From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
	[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of
Linda
	Blazek
	Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 1:53 PM
	To: brett_connolly <@t> merck.com; histonet <@t> pathology.swmed.edu
	Subject: RE: [Histonet] 37% formaldehyde

	There isn't any mistake about what he wanted.  One of our techs was
	here
	late last night because one of our more "cranky" surgeons was doing
a
	procedure in OR.  He called to the lab for "formaldehyde".  He was
	sent
	formalin.  He preceded to yell (very loudly) that he did not want
	formalin he wanted "formaldehyde".
	Linda

	>>> "Connolly, Brett M" <brett_connolly <@t> merck.com> 2/3/2005 2:40:22
PM
	>>>
	I think Geoff hit the nail on the head. The surgeon doesn't realize
or
	remember that 'formalin' is supposed to be 3.7%. I feel bad for the
	patient.

	Brett

	-----Original Message-----
	From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
	[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of
Linda
	Blazek
	Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 1:48 PM
	To: histonet <@t> pathology.swmed.edu
	Subject: [Histonet] 37% formaldehyde

	Does anyone know why a surgeon would want to send a liver biopsy
	specimen in 37% formaldehyde?  Is there some test or procedure that
	you
	would ever want to put a specimen in 37%? Thanks

	Linda  Blazek, HT (ASCP)
	Department of Pathology
	Children's Medical Center
	Dayton, Ohio  45404
	(937) 641-3358
	fax (937)641-5482
	blazekl <@t> childrensdayton.org

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