[Histonet] "Brit" Hitotech/Firestorm?

Sat Aug 6 13:55:20 CDT 2005

Hi Terry,  Please know that some Pathologists' Assistants belong to this
list as well and I really don't like someone not in my shoes telling me
that I am overpaid.  I spent 20 years in the Air Force and busted my
@#%@# as a Histotech and Histology Supervisor for less than underpaid
civilian histotechs make.  But I really wasn't in the military for the
money.  I finished my education and joined the AAPA, passing my
Fellowship exam after retiring from the Air Force.  I am here at work on
a Saturday, after already putting in a 40 hour week so that I can finish
up some paperwork I couldn't complete during the week because of the
500+ cases I grossed and the two cancer conferences I needed to attend.
I do agree that histotechs are behind on the pay scale but don't let
your "sour grapes" cause you to spout off about a profession you don't
work in.  Education doesn't always equate to salary.  I personally know
some histotechs with only high school education that can work circles
around BS educated registered HTL's.  They have a fully working
knowledge of histology theory, do a great job and have my full respect.
To me you sound like someone that "toots his own horn" a lot and
probably carries mini copies of your diplomas in you wallet.  I am sorry
that you met an "arrogant PA" but we are not all like that.  I am
normally a pretty easy going, laid back southern boy except when someone
spouts of generalizations that are untrue out of self pity over his own
situation.

Charles Embrey, HT, PA(ASCP)
Histology Manager
Carle Clinic Illinois     

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Terry
Murphy
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 7:34 AM
To: hawkmoon15 <@t> cox.net; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Re: [Histonet] "Brit" Hitotech/Firestorm?

HI everyone

I feel the urge to join this discussion.  I got into the field of
histology 
15 years ago and enjoyed the work and the concepts.  I wanted to move up
in 
the field ao I earned my HTL (ASCP) instead of the HT(ASCP) since I have
a 
Bachelor's degree in Biology.  That didn't get me any more respect or
money. 
  Still trying to improve my situation I earn a Master's degree in
Health 
Administration and I once again my employment has not improved.  As a
matter 
of fact my employment situation has gotten worse since I earned a
Master's 
degree.  I had acheived a position as a supervisor only to be "run out
of 
the lab" by an arrogant PA and, I can only assume, seasoned histotechs
that 
fear change.

Any way now I have been working as a traveling histotech.  The pay is
better 
than if I had a permanent job.  The facility I am at now recently hired
a 
person to be trained as a tech.  This new employee has a GED not a high 
school dipolma and he has no background in in science or medicine.  He
is 
doing good given his background but I find it kind of a insult to
educated 
techs like myself that that someone without education or experience has
been 
hired to do the same job that us techs have studied extensively.

Now I am done traveling and am trying to get a histotech job close to my

home town so I can live in my house and more importantly live with my
wife.  
I have applied for tech positions and either haven't heard from the
facility 
except for a rejection letter.  When I can get a hold of a hireing 
supervisor I have been told that "this is a entry level position and it 
doesn't pay well", "you are overqualified", and, this really surprised
me, 
"your skill set will not go well in our laboratory".  Someone on this
board 
mentioned about being "black listed" I feel that I have now entered that

list.  Most likely I have more education than the people that I would be

reporting to and they probably feel threatened by me.  Someone suggested

that I "dumb down" my resume and exclude some education and my
publication 
but I do not like the idea of excluding accomplishments that I am proud
of.

Lastly, as for wages, histotechs are grossly underpaid while Pathologist

Assistants are grossly overpaid!!!!

Thanks for letting me vent.  Sincerely,

Another fustrated histotech.

>From: "Sarah Jones" <hawkmoon15 <@t> cox.net>
>To: <histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Histonet] "Brit" Hitotech/Firestorm?
>Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:12:29 -0700
>
>I have to remind you here, Diana, that you are speaking for yourself
only
>with your statement about "in NA we tend to stay put".  That may be for

>some
>people.  However, I have found throughout my ~40 year career in
>Histotechnology (especially in the last half of it!!) the only way to
get a
>decent raise is to pack up and move on.  Unfortunately, here in NA our
>annual raises do not even keep up with the cost of living.  In fact, it
is
>down-right terrible!!  I have my HTL and got my CM recently, I am proud
to
>say.  However, I haven't received any additional compensation for
either,
>and I doubt I ever will.  (HTL for 24 yrs.)
>
>Which brings up something else:  The ASCP used to be the American
Society 
>of
>Clinical Pathologists.  It is now the American Society of Clinical
>Pathology.  What changed?  I'm not sure.  Does anyone know, except the
>'insiders', that is?  I do have first-hand knowledge of what used to
be.
>The Pathologists ran it, and they had a lot to do with where Histotechs
>sat -- low on the rung of the Pathology Laboratory ladder for YEARS.
The
>Registry was in my home town in Muncie, Indiana, and my Mother was the
>secretary to the Registrar for many years.  (This was all before it was
>centralized in Chicago.  Prior to the relocation to Chicago, the
Registry
>was in the town where the Chairman of the Board was located.  L. 
>Montgomery,
>M.D., was the Chairman of the Board for ~30 years that I know of, and
thus
>was the Registry located in Muncie.)  There are other things I could
tell
>you; but I was sworn to secrecy years ago, and I will honor that
pledge.
>Suffice it to say, the Pathologists wanted to keep the salaries of the
>Histotechs down, and did everything in their power to do so.  'Nuff
said!
>
>When I started into the field of Histotechnology at the University of
>Chicago back in 1965, the Techies associated with the ASCP were trying
to
>change the requirements for Histotechs, but to no avail.  Not until
January
>of 2005 did the change they were attempting to accomplish way back then
>prevail.  I didn't really understand what was happening  then, but
today I
>do.  There are MANY places here in the USA (where there is a severe 
>shortage
>of Histotechs) where they will still hire techs that are not licensed.
In
>fact, there are places where a licensed Histologic Technician OR a
licensed
>Histotechnologist are black-listed by the other techs--most likely in
fear
>that their own incompetence might be discovered!
>
>The cost of living in certain areas of the country are no longer taken
into
>consideration in the way they were in the past when it comes to hiring
>techs.  That also saddens me.  How is it that they think I can live in
the
>most expensive county in California that pays the lowest wages of any 
>county
>in California??  That is craziness in my book!!!!  Yet they wonder why
they
>cannot find good Histotechs here in this county!  GO FIGURE!!
>
>Anyway, I could go on and on, but I won't.  Hope this sheds some light
on
>some things for some folks.  Please address any personal questions to:
>hawkmoon15 <@t> cox.net
>
>Sarah
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Diana McCaig" <dmccaig <@t> ckha.on.ca>
>To: <histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 10:41 AM
>Subject: RE: [Histonet] "Brit" Hitotech/Firestorm?
>
>
> >
> > What are you all using to compare the wage scales.  Biomedical 
>scientists
>do
> > not get paid as well as we do in North America if you factor in
their 
>cost
> > of living.  I understand there is a recent trend to increase the
wages 
>in
> > order to keep them on board as there is a lot of migration to
various 
>labs
> > throughout a career where in NA we tend to stay put.
> > Diana McCaig, MLT
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry Woody [SMTP:slappycraw <@t> yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:35 PM
> > To: mtitford <@t> aol.com; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Histonet] "Brit" Hitotech/Firestorm?
> >
> > You may want to try some of the big biotech companies where there is
> > a need for people with more skills in the lab and the compensation
can 
>be
> > better than a medical lab.
> >
> > mtitford <@t> aol.com wrote:Rogerson Kemlo carries on the discussion
> > about histotechnologist training.
> >
> > In regards to hospital histology labs in the USA:
> >
> > I don't want to start a firestorm of criticism here, but I think
> > there is a real danger that in Great Britain those technologists
>performing
> > in the histology laboratories may be over qualified.A few months ago

>here
>on
> > the Histonet, someone in the U.K. was bemoaning the lack of
histology
> > technologists in the U.K., and how short staffed they were. Was that
>because
> > the bar had been set too high? Was the level of education required
too
>much
> > for the compensation received? Has a "closed shop" (to use a union 
>term!)
>in
> > effect, been created?
> > Here in the United States there are hundreds of community type
> > hospitals and smaller medical centers that have histology
laboratories. 
>In
> > those laboratories work histotechnologists doing a fine job with a
lot
>less
> > education than a fully qualified histotechnologist in the U.K.. At
the
>other
> > end of the spectrum are histology laboratories here doing more
advanced
> > procedures where degrees and extra training are required.
> > However, histotechnology training in the U.K. and USA are inherently
> > different. When I lived in the U.K. years and years ago (and it may
have
> > changed now), all the hospitals were government owned, lab personnel
got 
>a
> > day off each week with pay to attend IMLT classes, and the classes
were
> > free. To work in a hospital laboratory you had to be "State
Registered".
> > In the USA hospitals are owned by all sorts of organizations. You
> > don't get "day release" to attend classes. If you do attend classes,

>money
> > has to come from somewhere to pay for it. Further you may live 
>miles/hours
> > from the nearest college where you can attend classes.Since the 
>different
> > organisations may be "for profit" or even "Non-profit", they want to

>save
> > money by not paying too higher salaries. Most often they pay what
other
> > hospitals in the area pay for the same type work.
> > The 50 states have different requirements for working in their
> > hospital laboratories.
> > Hospitals have coped with these differences by making histology
> > laboratories a separate section of the laboratory, with
> > technicians/technologists trained just to work in that lab.
> > I think a histotechnologist from the U.K. could easily find a
> > position in the USA, but they might feel underappreciated and
underpaid!
> > (maybe even under challanged!)
> > Well, that's my two bits worth!
> >
> > Mike Titford
> > USA Pathology
> > Mobile AL USA
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