[Histonet] Automation for test 4 cents worth

Tue Apr 5 11:57:10 CDT 2005

When I worked at a histology school here in TX we had our students start from scratch.  We also made sure they knew what each reagent's purpose was.

Juan C. Gutierrez, HT(ASCP)
Histology Laboratory Supervisor
(210)704-2533

My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.  Long live free speech!

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Tim - Labvision
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:44 AM
To: 'histonet'
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Automation for test 4 cents worth

Recent comments on the ASCP test:
I personally have a lot of problems with the practical portion where
automated machines are allowed to be used to prepare slides.
I don't think that I would want to submitt an automated slide.  How can you
take pride in that?.

Well, I have a lot of respect for both Bonnie and Barry, but I'm not sure
that what we're testing is whether a tech can successfully answer the timer,
drain the slides and put them in the next solution. That is the trivial part
of staining. If that's a problem then how about using commercially-prepared
stains for the test slides? Should we also require hand-dipping for tissue
processing? I think most labs now days both buy the prepared stains and use
automation to do the staining. 

The skill is not the moving of objects through a series of solutions - it is
in knowing which to use and how to set up the solutions properly and, most
importantly,  in identifying when the stain is not correct - and  knowing
how to correct it. Indeed, even with commercially-prepared stains, there is
a lot of skill involved in deciding which one is best for your labs' use.
And skill/knowledge certainly is involved in setting up a machine to perform
any stain properly - the machine is not magic - it simply does what the user
tells it to do. It won't make a bad tech look good simply by its use.

Disclaimer - the company I work for manufactures automated instruments for
the histology lab. 

Tim Morken
Lab Vision - Neomarkers
www.labvision.com

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Bonnie
Whitaker
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:19 AM
To: 'histonet'
Subject: RE: [Histonet] 4 cents worth

I agree, Barry!!!  I don't think that I would want to submitt an automated
slide.  How can you take pride in that?

Bonnie Whitaker

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman,
Barry R
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:05 AM
To: histonet
Subject: [Histonet] 4 cents worth

I must in general agree with Pam and others who have stressed the need for
formal recognition of skills such as with a recognized program.

I do not think that anyone has been insulted on Histonet with regard to
their on the job training. I also had a lot of on the job training. What
those of y'all who may be indignant when the quality of OJT is questioned
have to realize is that it is not possible to equate OTJ in different
workplaces.  

You may have had superb training or may have been in a job where the
training was poor or mediocre at best. You may have been working your buts
off or had time to improve your skills and experiment with new procedures.
It is difficult to know what your specific situation is unless you have a
piece of paper where you may be compared to other individuals. Having passed
the ASCP exam does not necessarily mean that you are better trained than
somewhat who has worked in a great lab and only received OJT.  It does mean
that you can be compared to others who have passed the  ASCP exam, it is a
basic level. 

Having a degree especially, outside the field may indicate that you have
reached a certain level of academia, but also does not guarantee that you
have "street smarts" or will be able to pick up techniques and concepts
better than an individual who has not received such training. You only have
to ask someone who has been placed in charge of helping graduate students
with their histology projects to know how true this is.

The ASCP exam, while it is not perfect is a first step in ensuring that
individuals have the basics. 

If we are going to work on anything lets work on improving the ASCP
examination. 

I personally have a lot of problems with the practical portion where
automated machines are allowed to be used to prepare slides.

Barry

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