[Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents

Tue Apr 5 11:40:49 CDT 2005

thanks to Pam and Chuck. Believe me, if I could go to an accredited program,
I would. My pathologists are not willing to let me leave here for 2 years.
They say I am a vital part of this company. My nights are filled with
reading, reading and re-reading. I know what is at stake. My mentor
pathologist is great at showing the basics of grossing large specimens and I
am grateful. When I told him that now I know what it must have felt like as
a first year pathology resident, he told me no I don't because I don't have
4 years of medical school behind me. He meant that since I'm doing this
practically by myself without the benefit of medical school, he holds me in
high regards just for attempting the exam.
	Whatever people think of me really doesn't matter when I have a boss that
stands behind my decisions to improve myself. OJT or not, in his eyes, I am
more professional than some of his peers. I can deal with that.

Joe Nocito, BS, HT(ASCP) QIHC
Histology Manager
Pathology Reference Lab
San Antonio, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu]On Behalf Of
pmarcum <@t> vet.upenn.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:07 AM
To: Charles.Embrey
Cc: Joe Nocito; Chung, Luong; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents

I have been watching this debate for over a week now and feel it has added
to a
good debate and insulted some very good histologist registered,
un-registered,
with or without degrees and OJT.  I am a registered histologist who was
trained
on the job while in college many years ago.  My training was excellent and
more
research in the beginning than clinical (I have done both).  I also spent a
number of years in industry and can say I have friends who fall into all
categories listed.  I know some histologist who were OJT and are better and
more knowledgeable than some with degrees and vice versa.  The issue we are
overlooking is the fact that we have all of these people in Histology and
Pathology now and not all have the same opportunities of being in cities or
near
places with programs. Many hospitals will not pay to send a histologist to a
local meeting in town much less state, region or national for more training
and
to get
CEUs.  While I know this will fall on some deaf ears not everyone can afford
to
go and pay out of pocket or for a teleconference when the boss or hospital
says
NO.

This is the real issue and the problem we need to face.  The ASCP is our
licensing body and yet they have had little interest in where we train or
how.
It has been to the pathologist advantage to OJT as the salaries could be
kept
lower and we were not required to have degrees or in some cases register.
We do
need
more education and understanding now as the field has progressed past just
special
stains and H&Es to immunos.  Many who are being trained OJT are not learning
basic chemistry of
stains but how to order them and who to call in technical service when they
fail
instead of how to make them. Real training in chemistry and biology in
general
is
needed and we should see what NSH and the ASCP can do to help.  If we are
not
being heard
then we need to bring it in louder that is how blood drawing became a field
instead
of a call for anyone with the touch in the clinical laboratory.  Our field
is
much more complex!!

These are critical times and I for one do not want to go back to the old
days
when IHC first
came in and the pathologists wanted to transfer everything to hematology as
they
were degreed
and knfew more.  They could not ix tissue and did not understand anything
about
tissue and most
histology laboratories got IHC back within a ew years.  Now we could be
looking
at some of these
same ideas again.  Don't just fight education help figure out how to make it
available to anyone
who wants to learn our field and go and recruit at the high schools or
community
colleges where
programs are becoming available.  We don't do enough for ourselves to
advertise
who we are.

Off the Soap Box and joining Joe in trouble.

Pam Marcum

Quoting "Charles.Embrey" <Charles.Embrey <@t> carle.com>:

> Joe,  Once you finish your OJT requirements, take the certification exam
> and become a PA you will see that the OJT vs Program trained debate is
> alive and well within the PA ranks.  I think many people within the AAPA
> and also on histonet fail to realize that OJT stands for On The Job
> TRAINING.  It is simply another tool to teach a profession.  The problem
> is that where NAACLS approved programs are all very similar in the
> content and level of instruction, OJT programs are not regulated and can
> differ greatly.  This is where certification helps to level the playing
> field.  Everyone, program trained or OJT must be able to prove a certain
> knowledge base.  Even in a very hands on profession as Histology the
> required knowledge base of twenty years ago is hardly adequate today.
> For the PA exam- Study, study and re-study your Robbins.  The knowledge
> base is vast and all areas are covered in the exam.  I have heard people
> complain that they are not good test takers.  Well, in my experience,
> most people that fail tests just aren't prepared.  Degrees are great and
> proper OJT is invaluable but even pathologists have to follow their med
> school and residency with a very tough board exam.  I don't think I want
> a pathologist, that failed his boards, reading my slide with the excuse:
> "I'm a good pathologist but I failed my boards because I'm not a good
> test taker."
> I know you and your experience level Joe.  Trust me; you will make a
> fine and professional (even if a bit vocal) PA.  Just remember,
> ROBBINS-ROBBINS-ROBBINS.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Nocito [mailto:jnocito <@t> satx.rr.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 8:32 PM
> To: Charles.Embrey; Chung, Luong
> Cc: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: Re: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents
>
> Okay,
>  this may be a little out range, but I'm trying to become a
> Pathologists'
> Assistant doing the OJT route. Does that make me any less professional
> that
> someone who completes an accredited program?
>
> Joe Nocito BS, HT(ASCP)QIHC
> Histology Manager
> Pathology Reference Lab
> San Antonio, TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles.Embrey" <Charles.Embrey <@t> carle.com>
> To: "Chung, Luong" <lchung <@t> ppmh.org>
> Cc: <histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 1:07 PM
> Subject: RE: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents
>
>
> Ok, someone right out of medical school has the M.D. after their name.
> Now would you let them remove your gallbladder without assistance before
> they do their (OJT)residency in surgery.  Sure the degree is about the
> knowledge and theory but the OJT is about the practice.  I for one think
> that a true professional has an ample helping of both.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chung, Luong [mailto:lchung <@t> ppmh.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 1:00 PM
> To: Charles.Embrey; histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: RE: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents
>
> He has an M.D. behind his name.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu]On Behalf Of
> Charles.Embrey
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 1:56 PM
> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: FW: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles.Embrey
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:56 PM
> To: 'Chung, Luong'
> Subject: RE: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents
>
> What do you think a doctor's residency is?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Chung,
> Luong
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 10:21 AM
> To: Larry Woody; Histonet (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents
>
> You wouldn't go to see an OJT Doctors or nurses would you?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu]On Behalf Of Larry
> Woody
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:03 AM
> To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Subject: Fwd: Re: [Histonet] Re: ASCP - My 2 cents
>
>
> Bravo Ian: The problem here in the US is that there are thousands upon
> thousands of people working in histology labs that are not registered
> and don't have the theory behind histology and probably never will, and
> that is just the way some institutions and organizations want to keep
> it. That is not to say that some of these people are not dedicated to
> their jobs but if your in the field why not get the registry. Larry
>
>
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