[Histonet] RE: IHC on tissues processed for EM

Mon Nov 29 18:57:32 CST 2004

Thank you, Barry. 

 We all have days when even the simplest answers to common questions just
aren't there and we ask the community of histologists we all belong to for
help.  Other times looking up the answer with the sources available can be
best.  We have to determine what we need and use those resources well.  I
think sometimes we use the easiest way to avoid taking the time to learn and
everyone can be guilty of this at one time or another.  It is only an issue
when we take the easy way out every time.  

Often I see questions or requests for help when it is clear the person is in
trouble, needs help and isn't even sure how to ask or what to ask.  In that
position they may not even know where to look as they are given a project
and told do it with no help.  Until we can all wiggle our noses and make it
happen we should look at the community as place for help and not abuse it. 
I only have a problem when it is a student who clearly is asking us as a
group to make it too easy for them to ask and not learn.  The dangers of
only knowing our field by rote or to repeat what they have read or heard is
just not acceptable when the patient is at risk for not getting the best
care.  I feel the same way about research projects as the responsibility of
the technician to make the effort to learn and grow everyday.

Pam Marcum

-------Original Message-------

From: Rittman, Barry
Date: 11/29/04 17:11:42
To: histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: IHC on tissues processed for EM

Dawn et al.
I do not think that this is a totally black and white problem.
I think that it is entirely appropriate to ask people on Histonet for their
opinion on a specific technique as there are many experts in the various
fields.
While I agree that there are no stupid questions, I believe that the intent
of the writer was not to deride the individual but to suggest that they
first try to search out the information before asking the question.  I have
taught students for many years and feel that more and more I am being asked
to spoon feed individuals rather than to get them to learn the material. It
is easier to provide the correct answer and considerably  more difficult to
motivate people to work out the solution for themselves (if they can) i.e. I
believe that a ready made answer is usually not in the best interests of
learning for that individual.
When I was training (and I feel that I still am) while I could go and ask an
"expert" next door for the answer, I always tried to find the answer out by
myself first. This was, I believe, to my benefit as I was able not only to
ask a more pointed question of the expert but also ask some important follow
up questions.  I believe that it is a much more satisfying approach.

On the other side of the coin you have to realize that some of the
individuals asking these questions may not have the resources available to
them or even know where to begin to find out the information.
I would suggest to those who wish to ask questions that you first try to
research the material if you can as you will then be able to ask questions
specific to your needs. You will benefit both ways.
Barry

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of hymclab
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 3:31 PM
To: 'Gudrun Lang'; Histonetliste
Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: IHC on tissues processed for EM

I too think that no question should be lableled as "easy".  There are no
stupid questions.  I recently went through an issue about a stain that I
have been doing for over 20 years.  Couldn't figure out what was wrong.
Technical services at two companies were stumped until someone came up with
a possible answer.  I tested it and they were correct.  Someone else on the
Histonetlist just had the same problem and I responded with what we found to
be our problem.
Then I got slammed by someone who couldn't have even read the whole message.
I was answering someone'e problem about their mucicarmine stain not working.
In my response to this person I used the terms Mayer's mucicarmine and
Weigert's Hematoxylin.  This other person that slammed accused me in living
in the middle ages for using Mayer's Hematoxlyin and Weigert's hematoxlyin
and said I should try Gill's hematoxylin.  I didn't say I used Mayer's
hematoxylin, I was referring to the name of the Mucicarmine stain.  Secondly
I had never heard of using Gill's in place of Weigert's in the Mucicarmine
stain.  I e-mailed him back I thought maybe he was confused---he said he
wasn't and he said that he'd never even done a Mucicarmine stain.  I rest my
case.
Things like that make you want to be a lurker instead of trying to help
someone.

Dawn

-----Original Message-----
From: Gudrun Lang [mailto:gu.lang <@t> gmx.at]
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 3:09 AM
To: Histonetliste
Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: IHC on tissues processed for EM

Laszlo,
I feel about saying some words about your message.
You complain, that members of the histonetlist have no basic knowledgment.
But what is basic? For me, in a routine surgery histolab, EM is very, very
special for example. I belong to those people, that work in a small corner
of the whole histological techniques. But I am interested and want to learn.
You say, people have to use databases, text books etc. In my case I have no
access through my lab to those things and they are'nt cheap (and first you
have to know where to look). I am very happy about the histonetlist. Here
are specialists, experts from every field and also "workmates". Please be
tolerant with "easy" questions and problems, perhaps the person considers
the problem more difficult than you know. friendly greetings Gudrun Lang

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laszlo Komuves" <komuves <@t> corgentech.com>
To: <histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:44 PM
Subject: [Histonet] RE: IHC on tissues processed for EM

There are hundreds, if not thousands of papers demonstrating successful
localization of intracellular antigens at EM or LM level using tissue
samples processed conventionally for EM (i.e. PFA/GA fixation, Os
postfixation, epoxy resin embedding).

Look  for the now classical papers by Roth and Bendayan or their early
reviews. Also the EM textbooks published in the 80's have plenty of
information.

And let me also add a personal comment of frustration: Histonet used to be
about sharing experience and wisdom, mentoring and teaching those have were
(are they still?) eager to learn or perfect their skills. I personally
learnt/benefited from many messages posted. Now people are asking advice
about coverslip sizes? So thanks to the curse of the Internet, journal
articles and text books are used only by a dedicated few, electronic
databases (libraries, PubMed, journal archives, reagent search sites, even
Google) are not searched, and now even the vendor catalogs are not opened,
because on the Histonet somebody will respond? How will users differentiate
between solid information (based on scientific knowledge, practical
experience) or just plain ignorance? Where is critical thinking? What
happened to a once honorable guild of skilled craftsmanship, when members of
the community are  lacking elementary knowledge (just a few recent
hair-raising topics: H&E staining, pH, and the list goes on and on)?  And of
course we/they are constantly offended/complain about the lack of
recognition by our/their peers.

Feel free to get angry with me. I certainly welcome arguments and
criticism.. As for me, I go back to find something useful in one of my
textbooks.

Laszlo Komuves

FROM:  László G. Komuves PhD
Senior Principal Scientist,
Manager, Microscopy Core Laboratory

CORGENTECH, Inc.
650 Gateway Blvd., South San Francisco, CA 94080
Phone: (650) 246-6905, Fax: (650) 624-7540
E-mail: komuves <@t> corgentech.com

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:02:24 -0500
From: Michele French <michele.french <@t> bms.com>
Subject: [Histonet] IHC on Sections Processed for EM?
To: histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Message-ID: <41A334E0.2060308 <@t> bms.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1

Good Morning Histonet! A colleague of mine did some EM work and found
something interesting. Our pathologist wanted me to try to do some IHC to
further characterize what is present in the section. Our EM person said it
would never work. I did not think it was possible either, but I thought I
would ask anyway. Has anyone tried doing an immunostain on plastic (Epon)
sections from tissue fixed and processed for EM? I am always up for a
challenge, but I am really busy right now and don't want to waste my time if
there is really no hope! Thanks in advance,  Michele French

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