From badzrosari <@t> yahoo.com Mon Sep 3 07:08:44 2012 From: badzrosari <@t> yahoo.com (Bernadette del Rosario) Date: Mon Sep 3 07:08:52 2012 Subject: [Histonet] histotechnician job Message-ID: <1346674124.98504.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi histoland...Anyone interested to hire a histotechnician/histology assistant??Got someone here with an extensive years of experience since 1998 working in the mid east and gulf up to the?present..Except she dont have ASCP,HTL certification..Please let me know.Ill send her CV..Tanx... From badzrosari <@t> yahoo.com Mon Sep 3 07:19:25 2012 From: badzrosari <@t> yahoo.com (Bernadette del Rosario) Date: Mon Sep 3 07:19:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) Message-ID: <1346674765.89943.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi histoland..Anyone using resealable bags for storing their tissue samples after grossing??Coz i need a bit space for our small lab instead of storing it in the same container after it has been gross.Good space and easy to dispose later on...How and where can i order it??Any supplier???Tanx... From pmuhlhau <@t> seattlecca.org Mon Sep 3 14:49:14 2012 From: pmuhlhau <@t> seattlecca.org (Muhlhauser, Petrina R) Date: Mon Sep 3 14:49:38 2012 Subject: [Histonet] cassette printers/slide printers/slide labelers In-Reply-To: <20120830170316.8CD466FD2C@mx01.seattlecca.org> References: <20120830170316.8CD466FD2C@mx01.seattlecca.org> Message-ID: <10191_1346701755_504509BB_10191_50_1_059910C01F31C64FA8318B2AFE9EBB204A5BBCF2@EXDB01.seattlecca.org> We use the Brady cassette printer and it's working great so far. It does not require proprietary cassettes - we use the Surgipath Multi Cassettes and the labels attach very well. The only issue we've found is that the labels will sometimes get a small bubble in the center when the block is cooled at embedding, but it does not affect legibility and the label is still securely attached at both ends with the stapling. It did take some fiddling with the settings to get everything printing correctly (thanks Victor!), but it's now working very smoothly. We use the SlideMate printer for slides, and it's definitely temperamental; it misprints several times a day, so we have to keep a close eye on the printing. It also stalls out and needs to be restarted once or twice a day, but I'm not sure if that's a general issue with the printer or if it's something specific to the interface with our LIS. We also have a Brady slide label printer, but we don't use it with the LIS (I have no idea if it's capable of that or not). It prints very nicely and the labels stand up well to all the chemicals we use, but it is slower to label each slide this way. Hope that helped! Petrina Muhlhauser Seattle Cancer Care Alliance Department of Pathology 206-288-1355 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 18:21:14 +0000 From: "Victor A. Tobias" Subject: RE: [Histonet] cassette printers/slide printers/slide labelers To: "'Kelly Boyd'" , "'histonet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kelly, The only small scale cassette printer I know of, is the one from Brady. We have a small facility that is using it with good results as far as I know. You don't print directly to the cassette. They are printing to a 1" x .25" chemically resistant label on a Zebra printer connected to the LIS. The label is then placed on the beveled surface of the cassette and attached using Brady's tool. Because Brady's tool destroys both ends of the label, we had to play with the size and alignment of the barcode and text. I don't know what the cost of the Brady instrument is, but it has to be way cheaper then any other offering. Does it need to use a proprietary cassette, I don't know. I only assisted with the LIS part of getting the label formatted correctly. Slides labels are being printed on chemically resistant labels from a Zebra printer as well. In our 2 larger facilities we use General Data cassette printers and slide printers vary. One uses Zebra printers and chemically resistant labels and the other uses Thermo Slide Mate printers with mixed results. When they are working good, they're great, but they can be temperamental. By the way, which LIS are you using? Victor Victor Tobias HT(ASCP) Clinical Applications Analyst Harborview Medical Center Dept of Pathology Room NJB244 Seattle, WA 98104 vtobias@u.washington.edu 206-744-2735 206-744-8240 Fax ================================================= Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Kelly Boyd Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:30 AM To: histonet Subject: [Histonet] cassette printers/slide printers/slide labelers ? I am looking for recommended brands, the pros/cons and cost advice on small scale cassette printers, slide printers or slide label systems for "on demand" printing at the gross stations and at ?microtomes for tracking barcodes through the lab. NO software needed, these would have to interface into a new LIS system. ? Also, any advice/tips on yearly maintenance and consumable cost (cassettes, slides, labels, ink, print heads...) would be appreciated!!!!!!! Vendors welcome to contact me by personal email. ? ? Thanks, ? Kelly _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet This electronic message transmission contains information which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please leave a message via telephone at (206) 624-1159, notify me by electronic reply, and delete this message. Opinions and ideas in this message that do not relate to official business are understood as neither given nor endorsed by the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. To view our complete Notice of Privacy Practices, visit our web site at www.seattlecca.org. From PowersK <@t> ccmhonline.com Mon Sep 3 15:03:32 2012 From: PowersK <@t> ccmhonline.com (Powers, Kerry) Date: Mon Sep 3 15:03:44 2012 Subject: [Histonet] I need vendor contacts for a cassette and slide labeler Message-ID: <1CC65327E394154384235C226256AD8013C860@ccmhintra.com> Hello all, I'm not sure why I'm having a rough time getting quotes for a cassette labeler and two slide labelers, but I am. If anyone would like to send me come contacts that would be awesome, or if there are venders here that would like to contact me please feel free to do so. Below is my phone contact and here is my e-mail powerk@ccmhonline.com Thanks everyone! Kerry Powers HT/HTL(ASCP) Comanche Country Memorial Hospital Department of Pathology 3401 W Gore, Lawton OK 73505 (580) 355-8699 ext. 3359 Fax: (580) 585-5462 From LPaveli1 <@t> hurleymc.com Mon Sep 3 19:26:41 2012 From: LPaveli1 <@t> hurleymc.com (Lynette Pavelich) Date: Mon Sep 3 19:26:47 2012 Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1346674765.89943.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1346674765.89943.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89F4666A496DC949A819ECC40E11C867BF55FFCE@EXCHANGEMB1.hmc.hurleymc.com> Some years ago, our morgue stored stock tissues in sealed bags. These were actually the stronger plastic bags that are heat-sealed closed (much thicker plastic than the style of bags you were speaking of). After some time, (~2-3 yrs), the seams of the bags weakened and leaked all over, especially if they were stored piled on top of each other. It was disappointing as we were running out of room too. Additionally, we have found that plastic containers that are stored one on top of another, the weight of the top container will finally crack the lid below and the NBF evaporates. I also would like to hear what others are doing for successful long termed preservation of tissues besides using glass jars! Lynette ________________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] on behalf of Bernadette del Rosario [badzrosari@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:19 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) Hi histoland..Anyone using resealable bags for storing their tissue samples after grossing??Coz i need a bit space for our small lab instead of storing it in the same container after it has been gross.Good space and easy to dispose later on...How and where can i order it??Any supplier???Tanx... _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 07:31:19 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 4 07:31:23 2012 Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <89F4666A496DC949A819ECC40E11C867BF55FFCE@EXCHANGEMB1.hmc.hurleymc.com> References: <1346674765.89943.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <89F4666A496DC949A819ECC40E11C867BF55FFCE@EXCHANGEMB1.hmc.hurleymc.com> Message-ID: <1346761879.69136.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I used Kapak pouches, heat sealed with a minimum of formalin inside. Just enough to "surround" the tissues that have already been fixed. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Lynette Pavelich To: Bernadette del Rosario ; "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [Histonet] (no subject) Some years ago, our morgue stored stock tissues in sealed bags. These were actually the stronger plastic bags that are heat-sealed closed (much thicker plastic than the style of bags you were speaking of).? After some time, (~2-3 yrs), the seams of the bags weakened and leaked all over, especially if they were stored piled on top of each other.? It was disappointing as we were running out of room too. Additionally, we have found that? plastic containers that are stored one on top of another, the weight of the top container will finally crack the lid below and the NBF evaporates. I also would like to hear what others are doing for successful long termed preservation of tissues besides using glass jars! Lynette ________________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] on behalf of Bernadette del Rosario [badzrosari@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:19 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) Hi histoland..Anyone using resealable bags for storing their tissue samples after grossing??Coz i need a bit space for our small lab instead of storing it in the same container after it has been gross.Good space and easy to dispose later on...How and where can i order it??Any supplier???Tanx... _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjr6 <@t> psu.edu Tue Sep 4 07:41:01 2012 From: rjr6 <@t> psu.edu (Roberta Horner) Date: Tue Sep 4 07:41:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] FW: storage bags Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Roberta Horner Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:29 AM To: 'Lynette Pavelich' Subject: storage bags I use the heat-sealable bags. I only keep the tissues for 6 months then discard. I keep them up right in plastic bins (animal cages I think they are called). Occasionally I have one that will dry out but for the most part it works fine. I get the bags from Fisher the heavier ply. Label the bag, add just enough formalin to cover the tissues since they are already fixed. When I am ready to dispose of them I put the bags in a red bag and they are then incinerated. I asked our incinerator operator if I needed to pour off the formalin and he said it wasn't enough to affect his incinerator so save me lots of time. Roberta Horner HT/HTL Animal Diagnostic Lab Penn State University From mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com Tue Sep 4 08:00:59 2012 From: mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com (Hale, Meredith) Date: Tue Sep 4 08:01:07 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Colorado HT Position Message-ID: <0E828EC51C7CC445A51E53F81B64E8C70294A2@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPartners.intranet> Great part time opportunities' for Histotechnician's in Centennial, Colorado! Colorado GI Pathology is looking for certified HT's or HTL's to join their existing laboratory staff. Candidate must meet the following criteria: * Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing GI specimens * HT ASCP Certified Duties include: * Grossing * Embedding * Microtomy * Staining * Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed This is a part time that offers a competitive rate and flexible hours. Interested applicants should contact Meredith Hale; phone 214-596-2219 or through email mhale@miracals.com Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)cm Operations Liaision Director and Education Coordinator Miraca Life Sciences 6655 North MacArthur Blvd. Irving , Texas 75039 Office: 214-596-2219 Cell: 469-648-8253 Fax: 1-866-688-3280 mhale@miracals.com From mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com Tue Sep 4 08:01:42 2012 From: mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com (Hale, Meredith) Date: Tue Sep 4 08:01:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Louisiana HT Position Message-ID: <0E828EC51C7CC445A51E53F81B64E8C70294AC@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPartners.intranet> Great opportunity for a Histotechnician in a brand new laboratory! Louisiana Dermatology in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is looking for a certified HT or HTL to run their newly constructed laboratory. Candidate must meet the following criteria: * Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing dermatology specimens * HT ASCP Certified , minimum 3 years working in a histology laboratory , 1-2 years supervisor experience preferred Duties include: * Creation and maintenance of policies and procedures * Manage laboratory budget and supplies * Maintenance of QC documents' * Routine histology duties This is a full-time position that offers a competitive rate and flexible hours. Interested applicants should contact Meredith Hale; phone 214-596-2219 or through email mhale@miracals.com Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)cm Operations Liaision Director and Education Coordinator Miraca Life Sciences 6655 North MacArthur Blvd. Irving , Texas 75039 Office: 214-596-2219 Cell: 469-648-8253 Fax: 1-866-688-3280 mhale@miracals.com From b427297 <@t> aol.com Tue Sep 4 10:21:25 2012 From: b427297 <@t> aol.com (Jackie O'Connor) Date: Tue Sep 4 10:21:57 2012 Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <89F4666A496DC949A819ECC40E11C867BF55FFCE@EXCHANGEMB1.hmc.hurleymc.com> References: <1346674765.89943.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <89F4666A496DC949A819ECC40E11C867BF55FFCE@EXCHANGEMB1.hmc.hurleymc.com> Message-ID: <8CF58C81546A022-1DDC-37D0@webmail-d043.sysops.aol.com> We use Kapak bags which are sealed with a heat sealer. Our tissues are preserved for 15 years in this manner, with no leaks. I recently had to process some retrieved tissues which had been in storage for 14 years - they were great, and the quality of the tissues was no different than if the tissues had been taken the day after necropsy. Kapak bags are available through VWR in many different sizes. The heat sealer is about $1000. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Lynette Pavelich To: Bernadette del Rosario ; histonet Sent: Mon, Sep 3, 2012 7:27 pm Subject: RE: [Histonet] (no subject) Some years ago, our morgue stored stock tissues in sealed bags. These were actually the stronger plastic bags that are heat-sealed closed (much thicker plastic than the style of bags you were speaking of). After some time, (~2-3 yrs), the seams of the bags weakened and leaked all over, especially if they were stored piled on top of each other. It was disappointing as we were running out of room too. Additionally, we have found that plastic containers that are stored one on top of another, the weight of the top container will finally crack the lid below and the NBF evaporates. I also would like to hear what others are doing for successful long termed preservation of tissues besides using glass jars! Lynette ________________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] on behalf of Bernadette del Rosario [badzrosari@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:19 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) Hi histoland..Anyone using resealable bags for storing their tissue samples after grossing??Coz i need a bit space for our small lab instead of storing it in the same container after it has been gross.Good space and easy to dispose later on...How and where can i order it??Any supplier???Tanx... _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From nguy0515 <@t> gmail.com Tue Sep 4 12:25:37 2012 From: nguy0515 <@t> gmail.com (Trini Nguyen) Date: Tue Sep 4 12:25:41 2012 Subject: [Histonet] attn: Mohs techs in the Midwest! Message-ID: Hello All, I work at the University of Minnesota in the Dermatology Surgery Ctr and we are currently trying to conduct a wage survey. It would be great if I could get a salary range for the Histotechs (non HT and HT certified) in your lab. ANY information that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Trini From melissa <@t> alliedsearchpartners.com Tue Sep 4 16:04:02 2012 From: melissa <@t> alliedsearchpartners.com (Melissa Phelan) Date: Tue Sep 4 16:04:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Histotech Job Opening in Northern NJ Message-ID: Allied Search Partners is currently holding search for A full time Histotech to work Tuesday-Saturday on the Day Shift (Full Time). The position is in Northern, NJ in the Clifton, NJ area. Please email me if you would like more details. To view a complete list of Allied Search Partners current openings go to: http://www.alliedsearchpartners.com/careers.php Melissa Phelan LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/melissaphelan President, Laboratory Staffing Allied Search Partners P: 888.388.7571 F: 888.388.7572 M: 407.697.1175 www.alliedsearchpartners.com From latecor <@t> montevideo.com.uy Tue Sep 4 21:43:35 2012 From: latecor <@t> montevideo.com.uy (C.D.G.) Date: Tue Sep 4 21:43:41 2012 Subject: [Histonet] copy of an article needed Message-ID: <201209042343350968.00233A30@smtp.montevideo.com.uy> I would like to receive a pdf copy of the paper Xie R, Chung J-Y, Ylaya K, et al.: Factors influencing the degradation of archival formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded tissue sections. J Histochem Cytochem 59:356-365, 2011. Thanks in advance for your kindness. From Young.Kwun <@t> sswahs.nsw.gov.au Wed Sep 5 00:10:20 2012 From: Young.Kwun <@t> sswahs.nsw.gov.au (Young Kwun) Date: Wed Sep 5 00:10:39 2012 Subject: [Histonet] BRAF Mutation test Message-ID: <28587D1EA667F84BBAF99926FE94F5F40121FAE1@livma07.intra.swsahs.nsw.gov.au> Hello Histonetters, We are looking to start BRAF mutation tests for IHC on paraffin sections. I would be grateful if you could let me know any preferred antibody clones for this test. Thank you in advance! Young Kwun Senior Hospital Scientist Immunohistochemistry Dept. of Anatomical Pathology Concord Repatriation General Hospital Concord NSW 2139 Australia 02-9767-6075 (Tel) 02-9767-8427 (Fax) Young.Kwun@sswahs.nsw.gov.au From joost.bruijntjes <@t> tno.triskelion.nl Wed Sep 5 05:04:58 2012 From: joost.bruijntjes <@t> tno.triskelion.nl (Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)) Date: Wed Sep 5 05:05:07 2012 Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker Message-ID: Hi all Is anyone of you familiar with an antibody directed against endothelial cells which can be applied on FFPE mouse tissues? Best regards Joost Bruijntjes From chapcl <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 11:48:07 2012 From: chapcl <@t> yahoo.com (William Chappell) Date: Wed Sep 5 11:48:16 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Attention Vendors Message-ID: <4409E27D-329F-42F9-9503-8DB9E47DA1DF@yahoo.com> OK Vendors, I am the new AP supervisor for a hospital laboratory (CHOC Children's) opening up in Orange County California first quarter of next year. I know most of you lurk on here, instead of me trying to track all you down, please have your local reps contact me. Just reply to my email chapcl@yahoo.com. We will be purchasing histology, cytology, autopsy and grossing ancillaries. All capital equipment has already been purchased and/or chosen, but we are still in the market for select small equipment. If you have already been in contact with the laboratory, please contact me again separately. Thanks so much, William Chappell HTL(ASCP)QIHC Anatomic Pathology Supervisor CHOC Children's From chapcl <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 11:52:08 2012 From: chapcl <@t> yahoo.com (William Chappell) Date: Wed Sep 5 11:52:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] VoiceBrook Message-ID: <4FF359EB-4215-47EF-9F73-009C4DB28A8B@yahoo.com> There has been a total of ONE post for VoiceBrook transcription/voice recognition software on histonet. Does anyone use it? Does anyone have any recommendations? Pros? Cons? Specifically, what is the approximate capital outlay for the program? Do they have a purchase plan? I would expect a bit more talk as they self-proclaim they are the ONLY real solution for pathology transcription. William Chappell HTL(ASCP)QIHC Anatomic Pathology Supervisor CHOC Children's From madeleinehuey <@t> gmail.com Wed Sep 5 13:37:49 2012 From: madeleinehuey <@t> gmail.com (Madeleine Huey) Date: Wed Sep 5 13:37:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <50478545.0579b60a.30ef.76b9SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <50478545.0579b60a.30ef.76b9SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:04:58 +0000 > From: "Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)" > Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker > To: "Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all > > Is anyone of you familiar with an antibody directed against endothelial cells which can be applied on FFPE mouse tissues? > > Best regards > Joost Bruijntjes Joost, AbCam sell Rabbit anti-CD31 & will cross-react with Mouse FFPE tissues (Cat. # ab28364); http://www.abcam.com/CD31-antibody-ab28364.html Hope this help! Madeleine Huey BS, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Supervisor - El Camino Hospital (Pathology) From gagnone <@t> KGH.KARI.NET Wed Sep 5 14:56:21 2012 From: gagnone <@t> KGH.KARI.NET (Gagnon, Eric) Date: Wed Sep 5 14:56:34 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Ergonomics Message-ID: <5F06C3AD0B27264CA20CFA986C87882E3151998F@EXCHANGEPV3.KGH.ON.CA> Hi Karen, Here's a response to your question, as I haven't seen any others (?) While I haven't used the Newcomer handgrip device, I developed have DeQuervain's Tenosynovitis , a repetitive strain injury from turnin' the ol' microtome wheel for 28 or so years now. I would definitely recommend the foot pedal, since you have a microtome equipped with one. Yes, there is some loss of 'feeling' and it's a change from two hands on, but there is still the option of taking the microtome 'off line' and turning the wheel manually for difficult blocks. I can only speak for myself, but the more I used the foot pedal, the more confident and at ease I became. Start off slowly, working up towards more challenging blocks as soon as you can. Not that one can ever let one's guard down with anything with a motor...car, microtome, what have you. But in terms of ergonomics and saving your joints, I would try anything and everything you have at your disposal. It's never too late to change for the better. Hope this helps, Eric Gagnon MLT Histology Laboratory Kingston General Hospital, Kingston, Ontario, Canada From amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com Wed Sep 5 16:06:12 2012 From: amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com (Amos Brooks) Date: Wed Sep 5 16:06:16 2012 Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker Message-ID: Hi, My favorite by far is VonWillebrandt (spelling?) factor VIII. Dako has a really good one (Cat# A0082) that works great in mouse tissue. CD31 is OK but it is really finicky. CD34 works but F8 is easier and more reliable. Amos On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:01 PM, wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:04:58 +0000 > From: "Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)" > Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker > To: "Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all > > Is anyone of you familiar with an antibody directed against endothelial > cells which can be applied on FFPE mouse tissues? > > Best regards > Joost Bruijntjes > From algranth <@t> email.arizona.edu Wed Sep 5 18:11:53 2012 From: algranth <@t> email.arizona.edu (Grantham, Andrea L - (algranth)) Date: Wed Sep 5 18:13:31 2012 Subject: [Histonet] dermatologist volunteer needed - Belize Mission Project Message-ID: If anybody works for a dermatologist or knows of one or IS one who might like to volunteer for ONE WEEK in Belize in November please let me know. A family emergency has required our dermatologist to cancel his trip this year. The Belize MIssion Project is a dental/medical mission that is in its 20th year and is set up to provide dental and health care to the people of Belize who can't afford these services - in the cities, the remote Mayan villages and on the islands. It is a rewarding week among wonderful people who come from all over the US and Canada to volunteer. Dermatology is very similar to what we see here in the US (melasma, psoriasis, alopecia, & vitiligo with more scabies, fungus and a leshmaniasis or two thrown in for good measure). The Belizeans are friendly and appreciative, the country is beautiful, food is delicious and there is some time for activities like fishing and snorkeling too! English is the official language and one US dollar is equal to two belizeans. We headquarter on Ambergris Caye and travel via Tropic Air to various parts of the country. Keeping my fingers crossed that a willing dermatologist is out there. Andi Grantham Andrea Grantham, HT (ASCP) Senior Research Specialist University of Arizona Cellular and Molecular Medicine Histology Service Laboratory P.O.Box 245044 Tucson, AZ 85724 algranth@email.arizona.edu Tel: 520.626.4415 Fax: 520.626.2097 From tora.bardal <@t> bio.ntnu.no Thu Sep 6 06:48:10 2012 From: tora.bardal <@t> bio.ntnu.no (Tora Bardal) Date: Thu Sep 6 06:48:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] ImageJ : start help for muscle fiber count Message-ID: Any guru out there that might give me some ideas how to measure size and number of muscle fibers in a cross section using ImageJ Area by using freehand tool works................. but I'm having problems making a threshold with the muscle cells outlined for automatic measurements. I'm not experienced, might be I haven't found the correct tool :-) Picture sample: http://www.nt.ntnu.no/users/tbardal/muscle/muscle%20paraffin%202%c2%b5%2016x.jpg _________________________________________________________________________________ Tora Bardal Overingeni?r/ Senior Engineer NTNU Senter for fiskeri og havbruk /NTNU Center of Fisheries and Aquaculture NTNU, 7491 Trondheim From liz <@t> premierlab.com Thu Sep 6 08:10:02 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Thu Sep 6 08:12:00 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: ImageJ : start help for muscle fiber count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07D5C44@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Tora If you are using an H&E it was vertually impossible in our hands to try to threshold fiber area. We worked with Image Pro Plus for about 6 months trying to get this to work and we could not, we ended up creating an algorithm in image pro that allowed us to trace the fibers and that would calculate fiber area and diameter, etc. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 881-0763 cell (303) 682-9060 fax liz@premierlab.com Ship to address: Premier Laboratory, LLC 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 ________________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tora Bardal [tora.bardal@bio.ntnu.no] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 5:48 AM To: mail=histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] ImageJ : start help for muscle fiber count Any guru out there that might give me some ideas how to measure size and number of muscle fibers in a cross section using ImageJ Area by using freehand tool works................. but I'm having problems making a threshold with the muscle cells outlined for automatic measurements. I'm not experienced, might be I haven't found the correct tool :-) Picture sample: http://www.nt.ntnu.no/users/tbardal/muscle/muscle%20paraffin%202%c2%b5%2016x.jpg _________________________________________________________________________________ Tora Bardal Overingeni?r/ Senior Engineer NTNU Senter for fiskeri og havbruk /NTNU Center of Fisheries and Aquaculture NTNU, 7491 Trondheim _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com Thu Sep 6 09:29:03 2012 From: mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com (Hale, Meredith) Date: Thu Sep 6 09:29:12 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Canton, Ohio HT Position Message-ID: <0E828EC51C7CC445A51E53F81B64E8C702BE09@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPartners.intranet> Great part time opportunities' for Histotechnician's in Canton , Ohio! Gastroenterology Associates is looking for certified HT's or HTL's to join their new laboratory . Candidate must meet the following criteria: * Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing GI specimens * HT ASCP Certified Duties include: * Grossing * Embedding * Microtomy * Staining * Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed This is a part time that offers a competitive rate and flexible hours. Interested applicants should contact Meredith Hale; phone 214-596-2219 or through email mhale@miracals.com Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)cm Operations Liaision Director and Education Coordinator Miraca Life Sciences 6655 North MacArthur Blvd. Irving , Texas 75039 Office: 214-596-2219 Cell: 469-648-8253 Fax: 1-866-688-3280 mhale@miracals.com From mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com Thu Sep 6 09:29:40 2012 From: mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com (Hale, Meredith) Date: Thu Sep 6 09:29:48 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Colorado HT Message-ID: <0E828EC51C7CC445A51E53F81B64E8C702BE23@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPartners.intranet> Great part time opportunities' for Histotechnician's in Centennial, Colorado! Colorado GI Pathology is looking for certified HT's or HTL's to join their existing laboratory staff. Candidate must meet the following criteria: * Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing GI specimens * HT ASCP Certified Duties include: * Grossing * Embedding * Microtomy * Staining * Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed This is a part time that offers a competitive rate and flexible hours. Interested applicants should contact Meredith Hale; phone 214-596-2219 or through email mhale@miracals.com Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)cm Operations Liaision Director and Education Coordinator Miraca Life Sciences 6655 North MacArthur Blvd. Irving , Texas 75039 Office: 214-596-2219 Cell: 469-648-8253 Fax: 1-866-688-3280 mhale@miracals.com From shive003 <@t> umn.edu Thu Sep 6 13:35:58 2012 From: shive003 <@t> umn.edu (Jan Shivers) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:36:06 2012 Subject: [Histonet] job opening in St. Paul, MN Message-ID: The University of Minnesota Veterinary Diagnostic Lab has a full-time job opening for a histotechnician/histotechnologist. Briefly, the job entails processing, embedding, microtomy, and routine/special stains of fixed and frozen animal tissues; operating, maintaining, and troubleshooting histologic equipment; performing manual and IHC techniques; participating in research projects with principle investigators; assisting in maintaining quality control documentation records; ordering, organizing, and maintaining histology supplies; and other duties as needed. The UMN VDL handles tissues of all species, except humans. We receive submissions from all over the world - food animals, exotic zoo animals, companion animals, laboratory animals, wildlife. For more information, please contact me directly. Jan Shivers UMN VDL Histology/IHC Section Head St. Paul, MN shive003@umn.edu From monishapahuja <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 6 13:57:19 2012 From: monishapahuja <@t> gmail.com (Nisha) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:57:26 2012 Subject: [Histonet] PSMA Message-ID: Hello everyone Does anyone use an antibody called PSMA ( Prostate Specific Membrane Antigen) from Novacastra. I need help with a working dilution and if anyone has a protocol that I can use on a Ventana XT immunostainer. Thanks Nisha Lead Histotechnologist Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital Sent from my iPhone From a.thotakura <@t> imperial.ac.uk Thu Sep 6 14:10:55 2012 From: a.thotakura <@t> imperial.ac.uk (Thotakura, Anil K) Date: Thu Sep 6 14:12:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] IHC- phospho-JNK. Message-ID: <2FE9E70AEAB06A46977ACFEE6C22B31E13302AB0@icexch-m4.ic.ac.uk> Hi All, i need you guys help. I am doing IHC on 4% formalin fixed mice liver paraffins section and want to stain for Phospho-JNK. I am using primary Antibody from cell signaling ( Cat.no-9251). i followed the protocol exactly same as they suggested but i did't see any staining. I did antigen retrieval using Na citrate pH6.0. please give some input to refine my technique. Many Thanks, Kumar. From wilson6848 <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 6 17:02:57 2012 From: wilson6848 <@t> yahoo.com (Wilson A) Date: Thu Sep 6 17:03:01 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Flammables in Histology Message-ID: <1346968977.98628.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ? Hi, ??? Please? I have questions on flammables in Histology Lab. ?? 1.?How much flammables are stored in bulk? ?? 2. What is the capacity of the flammable cabinet? ?? 3. How much is allowed in Histology Lab? ? ???? Thank you all. ? Wilson From wdesalvo.cac <@t> outlook.com Thu Sep 6 17:37:49 2012 From: wdesalvo.cac <@t> outlook.com (WILLIAM DESALVO) Date: Thu Sep 6 17:37:57 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Flammables in Histology In-Reply-To: <1346968977.98628.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1346968977.98628.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you have a safety officer or department, start there. Each city and state will have specific regulations. Your company may have even more restrictions. your bulk storage capacity will be dependant upon State, Municipality and your company allowable storage outside a flame cabinet. Usually there is a very short period of time allowed from delivery and when you MUST move your bulk reagents to a cabinet capacity of the flammable cabinet varies with size. I strongly suggest you vent to outside volume allowed in the lab is again dependant upon State, Municipality and your company. Make sure you "count" all flammable liquids on instrumentation in use. in the lab and add to bulk storage Again, I suggest you check w/ your local fire department for regulations and requirements. Depending on the city, they typically are responsible for yearly inspections. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP) Production Manager-Anatomic Pathology Chair, NSH Quality Control Committee Owner/Consultant, Collaborative Advantage Consulting > Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:02:57 -0700 > From: wilson6848@yahoo.com > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Flammables in Histology > > > Hi, > Please I have questions on flammables in Histology Lab. > 1. How much flammables are stored in bulk? > 2. What is the capacity of the flammable cabinet? > 3. How much is allowed in Histology Lab? > > Thank you all. > > Wilson > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From tahseen <@t> brain.net.pk Fri Sep 7 00:02:58 2012 From: tahseen <@t> brain.net.pk (tahseen@brain.net.pk) Date: Fri Sep 7 00:03:06 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Can perform on IHC(P) Message-ID: <48240.203.135.35.66.1346994178.squirrel@brain.net.pk> Dear All, We have casein kinase sc-6479 santa cruz, can we perform on paraffin embedded section. Thanks Muhammad tahseen From Ronald.Houston <@t> nationwidechildrens.org Fri Sep 7 07:28:41 2012 From: Ronald.Houston <@t> nationwidechildrens.org (Houston, Ronald) Date: Fri Sep 7 07:29:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Can perform on IHC(P) In-Reply-To: <48240.203.135.35.66.1346994178.squirrel@brain.net.pk> References: <48240.203.135.35.66.1346994178.squirrel@brain.net.pk> Message-ID: don't understand why you would buy the antibody and then ask the question. The spec sheet indicates that the antibody has only been shown to work on WB, IP, IF and ELISA. There is no indication as to whether it will work on IHC. Ronnie Houston -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of tahseen@brain.net.pk Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 1:03 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Can perform on IHC(P) Dear All, We have casein kinase sc-6479 santa cruz, can we perform on paraffin embedded section. Thanks Muhammad tahseen _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ----------------------------------------- Confidentiality Notice: The following mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. The recipient is responsible to maintain the confidentiality of this information and to use the information only for authorized purposes. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, distribution, copying, printing, or action taken in reliance on the contents of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Thank you. From aprilp <@t> associateddermhelena.com Fri Sep 7 12:06:28 2012 From: aprilp <@t> associateddermhelena.com (April P - Assocd) Date: Fri Sep 7 12:06:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 6 Message-ID: <003301cd8d1b$1fde7b00$5f9b7100$@associateddermhelena.com> Hi Mattt I am having trouble with my office email. Seems there are things blocked so I can not respond to people. Please help. From Pathrm35 <@t> comcast.net Fri Sep 7 12:16:53 2012 From: Pathrm35 <@t> comcast.net (Pathrm35@comcast.net) Date: Fri Sep 7 12:16:58 2012 Subject: [Histonet] charge code for send out's? Message-ID: <817325346.1656030.1347038213367.JavaMail.root@sz0123a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Fellow techs, ? I am?wondering? what you do with charges for slides that are requested to be sent to another facility. Is there a CPT code that can be used for billing for the shipment, do you charge the patient or physician?who requests the slides to be sent out or do you pay for the shipping yourself ? ? Thanks, Ron Martin From we3smitty <@t> yahoo.com Fri Sep 7 12:22:26 2012 From: we3smitty <@t> yahoo.com (angela smith) Date: Fri Sep 7 12:22:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Eosin and the Peloris Message-ID: <1347038546.72102.YahooMailClassic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I know the original Peloris states that eosin should not be used in the alcohols It does say you can put it in the formalins. ? What are you all doing out there to mark your small needle bx and gi bx's?? We prefer methods where we add to the reagents on the processor. ? We have tried just formalin with eosin and eosin phlox. and it does not do a very good job. ? thanks From CThornton <@t> dahlchase.com Fri Sep 7 12:36:02 2012 From: CThornton <@t> dahlchase.com (Clare Thornton) Date: Fri Sep 7 12:36:09 2012 Subject: [Histonet] VIP Routine tissue protocols Message-ID: For those of you running VIP processors, what sort of protocol are you running your large routine tissue (i.e. breast, colon, uterus, placenta, etc.)? Also, how long are your routine tissues fixing in formalin before going on the processor? We are having issues with underprocessed tissue. We would like to compare our current protocols with other labs also running VIP processors. thank you, and have a great weekend! Clare J. Thornton, HTL(ASCP), QIHC Assistant Histology Supervisor Dahl-Chase Diagnostic Services 417 State Street, Suite 540 Bangor, ME 04401 cthornton@dahlchase.com From madeleinehuey <@t> gmail.com Fri Sep 7 13:36:14 2012 From: madeleinehuey <@t> gmail.com (Madeleine Huey) Date: Fri Sep 7 13:36:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <504a283b.27e2b60a.2175.0d0dSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <504a283b.27e2b60a.2175.0d0dSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Message: 6 Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 10:02:58 +0500 (PKT) From: tahseen@brain.net.pk Subject: [Histonet] Can perform on IHC(P) To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: <48240.203.135.35.66.1346994178.squirrel@brain.net.pk> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Dear All, We have casein kinase sc-6479 santa cruz, can we perform on paraffin embedded section. Thanks Muhammad tahseen Muhammad, Are you using human or mouse FFPE tissues? I have never used this particular antibody, but Santa Cruz Biot. have many other abs would work on both tissue types. Since you already have SC-6479, why don't you try using high ph buffer for antigen retrieval; 1) BioCare's DIVA with Pascal pressure cooker for 5 min - 10 min @ 125 psi). Try not to use steamer or MW, unless you are very confidence with your apparatus. 2) Incubate 1st ab ( 1:50, 1:500, 1:5k) overnight @ room temperature in moisture chamber (seal container with parafilm). If none of these titration work, then purchase a better antibody for your application. Good Luck! Madeleine Huey BS, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Supervisor - Pathology (IPOX & Histology) madeleine_h@elcaminohospital.org From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Fri Sep 7 14:42:07 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Fri Sep 7 14:42:11 2012 Subject: [Histonet] VIP Routine tissue protocols In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347046927.93616.YahooMailNeo@web121401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Usually the so called "under-processing" has more to do with incomplete fixation than with the processing protocol itself. Tissue specimens 2-3 mm thick require at least 32 hours to be cross-linked, i.e. properly fixed. As to processing protocols, if the tissues are thin enough and properly fixed, you do not really need an extended protocol over that used with routine specimens, unless they contain large amounts of fat. By the way, those large amounts of fat, usually with almost no diagnostic values, can be trimmed before placing the specimens in the cassettes. As to processing protocols, almost every lab has its own "ideal protocol" so you are better of by using any "general protocol" as it appears in any histotechnique book and try it. You can always "twink it" down to your needs after wards. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Clare Thornton To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 1:36 PM Subject: [Histonet] VIP Routine tissue protocols For those of you running VIP processors, what sort of protocol are you running your large routine tissue (i.e. breast, colon, uterus, placenta, etc.)?? Also, how long are your routine tissues fixing in formalin before going on the processor?? We are having issues with underprocessed tissue.? We would like to compare our current protocols with other labs also running VIP processors. thank you, and have a great weekend! Clare J. Thornton, HTL(ASCP), QIHC Assistant Histology Supervisor Dahl-Chase Diagnostic Services 417 State Street, Suite 540 Bangor, ME 04401 cthornton@dahlchase.com _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From madeleinehuey <@t> gmail.com Sat Sep 8 13:35:46 2012 From: madeleinehuey <@t> gmail.com (Madeleine Huey) Date: Sat Sep 8 13:35:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <504b79be.0793b60a.6e16.223dSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <504b79be.0793b60a.6e16.223dSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Message: 3 Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 10:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: angela smith Subject: [Histonet] Eosin and the Peloris To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: <1347038546.72102.YahooMailClassic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I know the original Peloris states that eosin should not be used in the alcohols It does say you can put it in the formalins. What are you all doing out there to mark your small needle bx and gi bx's? We prefer methods where we add to the reagents on the processor. We have tried just formalin with eosin and eosin phlox. and it does not do a very good job. thanks Angela, We add Eosin in our most purity alcohol bottles (2 bottles with ~ 95% - 100% ETOH) & they work great. I do not recommend it in Formalin, because the Eosin tend to wash out during the dehydration process. No loss of small biopsies in my lab yet. Good Luck! Madeleine Huey BS, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Supervisor - Pathology (IPOX & Histology) madeleine_h@elcaminohospital.org From Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org Sun Sep 9 09:16:53 2012 From: Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org (Richard Cartun) Date: Sun Sep 9 09:17:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] charge code for send out's? In-Reply-To: <817325346.1656030.1347038213367.JavaMail.root@sz0123a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <817325346.1656030.1347038213367.JavaMail.root@sz0123a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <504C6C95.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> We now request a FedEx or UPS account number for all outside requests for pathology materials from our Department. It is the responsibility of the requesting hospital/laboratory/company to provide this since they will be providing a consultation, performing IHC/molecular testing, or conducting research on our patient's pathology material. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 Office (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> 9/7/2012 1:16 PM >>> Fellow techs, I am wondering what you do with charges for slides that are requested to be sent to another facility. Is there a CPT code that can be used for billing for the shipment, do you charge the patient or physician who requests the slides to be sent out or do you pay for the shipping yourself ? Thanks, Ron Martin _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org Sun Sep 9 09:49:24 2012 From: Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org (Richard Cartun) Date: Sun Sep 9 09:49:34 2012 Subject: [Histonet] charge code for send out's? In-Reply-To: <504C6C95.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> References: <817325346.1656030.1347038213367.JavaMail.root@sz0123a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <504C6C95.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> Message-ID: <504C7434.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> I forgot to add that if the patient requests that their slides be sent-out to another institution for consultation, it is appropriate to have them pay for the shipping of the slides. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 Office (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> "Richard Cartun" 9/9/2012 10:16 AM >>> We now request a FedEx or UPS account number for all outside requests for pathology materials from our Department. It is the responsibility of the requesting hospital/laboratory/company to provide this since they will be providing a consultation, performing IHC/molecular testing, or conducting research on our patient's pathology material. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 Office (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> 9/7/2012 1:16 PM >>> Fellow techs, I am wondering what you do with charges for slides that are requested to be sent to another facility. Is there a CPT code that can be used for billing for the shipment, do you charge the patient or physician who requests the slides to be sent out or do you pay for the shipping yourself ? Thanks, Ron Martin _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From porscha.graddick <@t> yahoo.com Sun Sep 9 11:22:50 2012 From: porscha.graddick <@t> yahoo.com (Porscha Graddick) Date: Sun Sep 9 11:22:53 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice Message-ID: <1347207770.33954.androidMobile@web125304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Ok, here's my issue(s).? I currently reside in Georgia & will be graduating in Dec. with an associates degree in medical lab.? My plan was to attend a local college and become a certified histologist.? Here's the kicker, I will be moving to the Spring, Tx area soon after graduation (which was not in my original plan),? but I was wondering if it is best for me to be certified in Ga. or in Tx.? Also, is it best for me to be certified in histology at a school or will on the job training do?? I just need a little direction.? Thanks everyone! Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Sun Sep 9 11:25:57 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Sun Sep 9 11:26:00 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice In-Reply-To: <1347207770.33954.androidMobile@web125304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347207770.33954.androidMobile@web125304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1347207957.11498.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I think that your best option is to get ASCP (HT or HTL) certification. That will open any doors and also you can be certified in the state you reside in the future. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Porscha Graddick To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 12:22 PM Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice Ok, here's my issue(s).? I currently reside in Georgia & will be graduating in Dec. with an associates degree in medical lab.? My plan was to attend a local college and become a certified histologist.? Here's the kicker, I will be moving to the Spring, Tx area soon after graduation (which was not in my original plan),? but I was wondering if it is best for me to be certified in Ga. or in Tx.? Also, is it best for me to be certified in histology at a school or will on the job training do?? I just need a little direction.? Thanks everyone! Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Sun Sep 9 14:41:15 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Sun Sep 9 14:41:20 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice In-Reply-To: <1347207770.33954.androidMobile@web125304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347207770.33954.androidMobile@web125304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: PorshaIf I were you I would get an HT or HTL certification from the ASCP and then see what the market is like and also what the state licensure is where you will be located. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 09:22:50 -0700 > From: porscha.graddick@yahoo.com > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice > > Ok, here's my issue(s). I currently reside in Georgia & will be graduating in Dec. with an associates degree in medical lab. My plan was to attend a local college and become a certified histologist. Here's the kicker, I will be moving to the Spring, Tx area soon after graduation (which was not in my original plan), but I was wondering if it is best for me to be certified in Ga. or in Tx. Also, is it best for me to be certified in histology at a school or will on the job training do? I just need a little direction. Thanks everyone! > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com Sun Sep 9 14:55:31 2012 From: jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com (Jay Lundgren) Date: Sun Sep 9 14:55:36 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice In-Reply-To: References: <1347207770.33954.androidMobile@web125304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There is no state licensure for histotechs in Texas. Spring is only 25 miles from Houston, the 4th largest city in the United States, with a world class medical center, including MD Anderson, which runs a histo school. http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/education-and-training/schools-and-programs/school-of-health-professions/school-of-health-professions-student-catalog/areas-of-study/school-of-health-professions-student-catalog-areas-of-study-histotechnology.html Sincerely, Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) From porscha.graddick <@t> yahoo.com Sun Sep 9 18:48:16 2012 From: porscha.graddick <@t> yahoo.com (Porscha Graddick) Date: Sun Sep 9 18:48:20 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice Message-ID: <1347234496.11608.androidMobile@web125305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I'd like to thank everyone for their input... I truly appreciate it :) Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org Mon Sep 10 08:06:10 2012 From: TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org (Mayer,Toysha N) Date: Mon Sep 10 08:06:19 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: ] Eosin and the Peloris Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 12:00 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8 Send Histonet mailing list submissions to histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu You can reach the person managing the list at histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu If you don't want eosin in the alcohols, try tinting your formalin with hematoxylin. When I worked at LSU, one of the techs put hematoxylin in the formalin that the tissues sat in before going on the processor, after grossing. It gave a light tint to the tissue, but did not interfere with anything else. It was not applied directly to the tissue, just the formalin used that day. Eosin in the formalin would not work, a more water based stain would. Hope that helps. Toysha Message: 1 Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:35:46 -0700 From: Madeleine Huey Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 7 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message: 3 Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 10:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: angela smith Subject: [Histonet] Eosin and the Peloris To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: <1347038546.72102.YahooMailClassic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I know the original Peloris states that eosin should not be used in the alcohols It does say you can put it in the formalins. What are you all doing out there to mark your small needle bx and gi bx's? We prefer methods where we add to the reagents on the processor. We have tried just formalin with eosin and eosin phlox. and it does not do a very good job. thanks Angela, We add Eosin in our most purity alcohol bottles (2 bottles with ~ 95% - 100% ETOH) & they work great. I do not recommend it in Formalin, because the Eosin tend to wash out during the dehydration process. No loss of small biopsies in my lab yet. Good Luck! Madeleine Huey BS, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Supervisor - Pathology (IPOX & Histology) madeleine_h@elcaminohospital.org From cbarone <@t> NEMOURS.ORG Mon Sep 10 09:12:11 2012 From: cbarone <@t> NEMOURS.ORG (Barone, Carol) Date: Mon Sep 10 09:12:12 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F06BE5D1D5D4F4991755CC53C0A4CBD1B3EED20@WLMMBS02.nemours.org> As an instructor for histology, I would completely agree with Renee. If you plan to become certified you should take the ASCP exam for HT/HTL(depending on your degree). States certifications differ from "real" educational requirements to nothing more than a license to perform your duties. You may require both, depending on the state. This is field with many vacancies and plenty of room for growth, so I would welcome you to the field. But, going forward it will become much more competitive....and anything less than a two year degree and ASCP certification....will probably either leave you out of the race, or confined to a lower paying job. Education and ASCP certification are the route forward. CB -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 1:01 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8 Send Histonet mailing list submissions to histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu You can reach the person managing the list at histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Histonet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 7 (Madeleine Huey) 2. Re: charge code for send out's? (Richard Cartun) 3. Re: charge code for send out's? (Richard Cartun) 4. Needing Advice (Porscha Graddick) 5. Re: Needing Advice (Rene J Buesa) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:35:46 -0700 From: Madeleine Huey Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 7 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message: 3 Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 10:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: angela smith Subject: [Histonet] Eosin and the Peloris To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: <1347038546.72102.YahooMailClassic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I know the original Peloris states that eosin should not be used in the alcohols It does say you can put it in the formalins. What are you all doing out there to mark your small needle bx and gi bx's? We prefer methods where we add to the reagents on the processor. We have tried just formalin with eosin and eosin phlox. and it does not do a very good job. thanks Angela, We add Eosin in our most purity alcohol bottles (2 bottles with ~ 95% - 100% ETOH) & they work great. I do not recommend it in Formalin, because the Eosin tend to wash out during the dehydration process. No loss of small biopsies in my lab yet. Good Luck! Madeleine Huey BS, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Supervisor - Pathology (IPOX & Histology) madeleine_h@elcaminohospital.org ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 10:16:53 -0400 From: "Richard Cartun" Subject: Re: [Histonet] charge code for send out's? To: , Message-ID: <504C6C95.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII We now request a FedEx or UPS account number for all outside requests for pathology materials from our Department. It is the responsibility of the requesting hospital/laboratory/company to provide this since they will be providing a consultation, performing IHC/molecular testing, or conducting research on our patient's pathology material. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 Office (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> 9/7/2012 1:16 PM >>> Fellow techs, I am wondering what you do with charges for slides that are requested to be sent to another facility. Is there a CPT code that can be used for billing for the shipment, do you charge the patient or physician who requests the slides to be sent out or do you pay for the shipping yourself ? Thanks, Ron Martin _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 10:49:24 -0400 From: "Richard Cartun" Subject: Re: [Histonet] charge code for send out's? To: ,"Richard Cartun" , Message-ID: <504C7434.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I forgot to add that if the patient requests that their slides be sent-out to another institution for consultation, it is appropriate to have them pay for the shipping of the slides. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 Office (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> "Richard Cartun" 9/9/2012 10:16 AM >>> We now request a FedEx or UPS account number for all outside requests for pathology materials from our Department. It is the responsibility of the requesting hospital/laboratory/company to provide this since they will be providing a consultation, performing IHC/molecular testing, or conducting research on our patient's pathology material. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 Office (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> 9/7/2012 1:16 PM >>> Fellow techs, I am wondering what you do with charges for slides that are requested to be sent to another facility. Is there a CPT code that can be used for billing for the shipment, do you charge the patient or physician who requests the slides to be sent out or do you pay for the shipping yourself ? Thanks, Ron Martin _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 09:22:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Porscha Graddick Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: <1347207770.33954.androidMobile@web125304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ok, here's my issue(s).? I currently reside in Georgia & will be graduating in Dec. with an associates degree in medical lab.? My plan was to attend a local college and become a certified histologist.? Here's the kicker, I will be moving to the Spring, Tx area soon after graduation (which was not in my original plan),? but I was wondering if it is best for me to be certified in Ga. or in Tx.? Also, is it best for me to be certified in histology at a school or will on the job training do?? I just need a little direction.? Thanks everyone! Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 09:25:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] Needing Advice To: Porscha Graddick , "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: <1347207957.11498.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I think that your best option is to get ASCP (HT or HTL) certification. That will open any doors and also you can be certified in the state you reside in the future. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Porscha Graddick To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 12:22 PM Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice Ok, here's my issue(s).? I currently reside in Georgia & will be graduating in Dec. with an associates degree in medical lab.? My plan was to attend a local college and become a certified histologist.? Here's the kicker, I will be moving to the Spring, Tx area soon after graduation (which was not in my original plan),? but I was wondering if it is best for me to be certified in Ga. or in Tx.? Also, is it best for me to be certified in histology at a school or will on the job training do?? I just need a little direction.? Thanks everyone! Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 8 **************************************** From portera <@t> msu.edu Mon Sep 10 09:35:10 2012 From: portera <@t> msu.edu (Amy Porter) Date: Mon Sep 10 09:35:20 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Shelf Life of Zinc Fixative??? Message-ID: <001301cd8f61$7b95b1a0$72c114e0$@edu> Does anyone out there using Zinc Fixative (prepared in lab / not commercial) have a shelf life they use successfully?? Thanks for the responses in advance. Amy Amy S. Porter, HT(ASCP) QIHC Michigan State University Investigative HistoPathology Laboratory William S. Spielman, Ph.D. - Director Patricia K. Senagore, M.D. - Consulting Pathologist Department of Physiology / Human Pathology Biomedical Physical Sciences Building 567 Wilson Road - Room 2133 East Lansing, MI 48824-3320 Phone: 517-884-5026 Fax: 517-432-1368 portera@msu.edu www.humanpathology.msu.edu From jo-ann.bader <@t> mcgill.ca Mon Sep 10 09:57:47 2012 From: jo-ann.bader <@t> mcgill.ca (Jo-Ann Bader, Ms.) Date: Mon Sep 10 09:57:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Slide Labelers Message-ID: <8C36045F0065CE48906E684F15FD4CB6086B77@exmbx2010-9.campus.MCGILL.CA> Good Morning All, We are in the market for a new slide labeler. We are not happy with our current one. I would like to hear the oppinion from other labs on the slide labelers they are using. Thank you Jo-Ann Bader Histology Co-Ordinator Goodman Cancer Centre McGill University 1160 Pine Ave. W - Rm 312 Montreal, QC, Canada H3G 1Y6 Tel: 514-398-8270 From portera <@t> msu.edu Mon Sep 10 10:32:59 2012 From: portera <@t> msu.edu (Amy Porter) Date: Mon Sep 10 10:33:04 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Zinc Fixative Question..... Message-ID: <002901cd8f69$8ecc8ac0$ac65a040$@edu> A wonderful colleague recommended to aid in my response that I add the components I am using for preparation to assist in obtaining a more specific response, about shelf life, so here it is: 0.1 M Tris/HCl Buffer pH 7.4 - to which is added: Calcium Acetate - 0.5 gm Zinc Acetate - 5.0 gm Zinc Chloride - 5.0 gm The resulting solution was pH 5.45 According to my protocol my pH should be between 6.5 & 7.0 which is working. I am just starting to work on developing this protocol and my Zinc Chloride looked pretty pathetic in the bottle and I will be ordering fresh. I think this may have affected the pH - uncertain however at this point. Amy S. Porter, HT(ASCP) QIHC Michigan State University Investigative HistoPathology Laboratory William S. Spielman, Ph.D. - Director Patricia K. Senagore, M.D. - Consulting Pathologist Department of Physiology / Human Pathology Biomedical Physical Sciences Building 567 Wilson Road - Room 2133 East Lansing, MI 48824-3320 Phone: 517-884-5026 Fax: 517-432-1368 portera@msu.edu www.humanpathology.msu.edu From gayle.callis <@t> bresnan.net Mon Sep 10 12:02:44 2012 From: gayle.callis <@t> bresnan.net (gayle callis) Date: Mon Sep 10 12:03:05 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: zinc fixative Message-ID: <000301cd8f76$1a302c50$4e9084f0$@bresnan.net> Amy, You wrote: A wonderful colleague recommended to aid in my response that I add the components I am using for preparation to assist in obtaining a more specific response, about shelf life, so here it is: 0.1 M Tris/HCl Buffer pH 7.4 - to which is added: Calcium Acetate - 0.5 gm Zinc Acetate - 5.0 gm Zinc Chloride - 5.0 gm The resulting solution was pH 5.45 According to my protocol my pH should be between 6.5 & 7.0 which is working. I am just starting to work on developing this protocol and my Zinc Chloride looked pretty pathetic in the bottle and I will be ordering fresh. I think this may have affected the pH - uncertain however at this point. ********************************** Invitrogen/BD Biosciences sells this fixative aka IHC Zinc Fixative (formalin free) and are only vendors in the USA as far as I know although it is sold in Europe under another name. I did not find a shelf life in either MSDS or Technical Data sheet, but you might want to contact them about this. When we tried this, we made it fresh. You may want to look at cost of buying the ready made compared to buying new chemicals or taking the time to make it up - whatever is cost effective. If you make it up, I suggest using only fresh chemicals if any of yours have been sitting around on the shelf as we ran into the same problem with zinc chloride going bad. The commercial IHC Zinc Fixative is a 10X solution (storage is RT) and diluted with distilled water just before use - very handy. If you are interested, I have many publications on file about this fixative including the original Beckstead (for human CD markers) and Nitta (for murine CD markers) articles and would be happy to send these to you privately. At least the TRIS buffer can be made up ahead of time, maybe even as a 10X solution and dilute when needed to add dry chemicals just before use. One thing is that the pH is never adjusted after adding the chemicals to the pH 7.4 TRIS buffer. This was mentioned in the original publications. Some things to think about when using this fixative. Make sure your tissues are not overly large/thick by reducing the sample size to achieve total fixation since the time of fixation is limited. BD Bioscience says up to 48 hours. I think one could perfuse nicely with this fixative too or at least inject it into lumens, fill lungs, hearts, etc. If you have incomplete fixation with ZnTRIS buffer (Beckstead's fixative), then alcohol during processing will complete the fixation which is something you do not want to happen. Nitta et al had a processing schedule in their publication but we found we had to use shorter processing schedule for murine tissues which became too dry and friable leading to poor microtomy with overly long soaking to get a section. Also the first NBF station on the processor should be replaced with this fixative. When working with formalin sensitive CD markers which is the purpose of this fixative, I wouldn't want a sniff of formalin from NBF carry over into ANY of the solvents. Others may have more suggestions on this. I am not sure what you are using zinc fixative for, but presume it is for CD markers. Good luck, Gayle Callis HTL/HT/MT(ASCP) From portera <@t> msu.edu Mon Sep 10 12:19:55 2012 From: portera <@t> msu.edu (Amy Porter) Date: Mon Sep 10 12:19:58 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: zinc fixative In-Reply-To: <000301cd8f76$1a302c50$4e9084f0$@bresnan.net> References: <000301cd8f76$1a302c50$4e9084f0$@bresnan.net> Message-ID: <001201cd8f78$7f159220$7d40b660$@edu> Thank you Gayle - I am going to order new Zinc Chloride and see where it goes from there. I have utilized the commercial vendors in the past and am just trying to save on purchasing costs if I have a client that has variable size studies - I would like to have it more readily available without having to go through university ordering system which as you know can create a variety of delays when you are trying to take care of researchers. I always make sure to inform them that a "slab" is not acceptable for this type of fixation. The publications which you have supported are always on my top ten reading list when working with rodent samples!! Thank you for the wealth of information you provided. Amy -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of gayle callis Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 1:03 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] RE: zinc fixative Amy, You wrote: A wonderful colleague recommended to aid in my response that I add the components I am using for preparation to assist in obtaining a more specific response, about shelf life, so here it is: 0.1 M Tris/HCl Buffer pH 7.4 - to which is added: Calcium Acetate - 0.5 gm Zinc Acetate - 5.0 gm Zinc Chloride - 5.0 gm The resulting solution was pH 5.45 According to my protocol my pH should be between 6.5 & 7.0 which is working. I am just starting to work on developing this protocol and my Zinc Chloride looked pretty pathetic in the bottle and I will be ordering fresh. I think this may have affected the pH - uncertain however at this point. ********************************** Invitrogen/BD Biosciences sells this fixative aka IHC Zinc Fixative (formalin free) and are only vendors in the USA as far as I know although it is sold in Europe under another name. I did not find a shelf life in either MSDS or Technical Data sheet, but you might want to contact them about this. When we tried this, we made it fresh. You may want to look at cost of buying the ready made compared to buying new chemicals or taking the time to make it up - whatever is cost effective. If you make it up, I suggest using only fresh chemicals if any of yours have been sitting around on the shelf as we ran into the same problem with zinc chloride going bad. The commercial IHC Zinc Fixative is a 10X solution (storage is RT) and diluted with distilled water just before use - very handy. If you are interested, I have many publications on file about this fixative including the original Beckstead (for human CD markers) and Nitta (for murine CD markers) articles and would be happy to send these to you privately. At least the TRIS buffer can be made up ahead of time, maybe even as a 10X solution and dilute when needed to add dry chemicals just before use. One thing is that the pH is never adjusted after adding the chemicals to the pH 7.4 TRIS buffer. This was mentioned in the original publications. Some things to think about when using this fixative. Make sure your tissues are not overly large/thick by reducing the sample size to achieve total fixation since the time of fixation is limited. BD Bioscience says up to 48 hours. I think one could perfuse nicely with this fixative too or at least inject it into lumens, fill lungs, hearts, etc. If you have incomplete fixation with ZnTRIS buffer (Beckstead's fixative), then alcohol during processing will complete the fixation which is something you do not want to happen. Nitta et al had a processing schedule in their publication but we found we had to use shorter processing schedule for murine tissues which became too dry and friable leading to poor microtomy with overly long soaking to get a section. Also the first NBF station on the processor should be replaced with this fixative. When working with formalin sensitive CD markers which is the purpose of this fixative, I wouldn't want a sniff of formalin from NBF carry over into ANY of the solvents. Others may have more suggestions on this. I am not sure what you are using zinc fixative for, but presume it is for CD markers. Good luck, Gayle Callis HTL/HT/MT(ASCP) _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From contact <@t> histocare.com Mon Sep 10 13:13:30 2012 From: contact <@t> histocare.com (Contact HistoCare) Date: Mon Sep 10 13:13:42 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <201209101704.q8AH4P2Y012474@mail10c40.carrierzone.com> References: <201209101704.q8AH4P2Y012474@mail10c40.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: I hope I get some honest answers out there so here goes, Variables are: 5yr professionals both HT and non-cert with equal capabilities. And assuming routine histo duties (embedding, cutting, etc maybe light grossing) and for kicks lets say primarily working with animal tissue, Based on your personal experience, where can these individuals expect to max out as far as hourly pay? Sure, we know it could vary based on institution and location but there definitely is a ceiling. Or alternatively, what WON'T you pay this person regardless of experience. From chapcl <@t> yahoo.com Mon Sep 10 13:25:29 2012 From: chapcl <@t> yahoo.com (William) Date: Mon Sep 10 13:25:38 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: <201209101704.q8AH4P2Y012474@mail10c40.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <4814BB2F-F483-42BF-8EE4-87E1D9243456@yahoo.com> Maybe you don't understand HOW wide it can vary. Some place it could max out at low $20 per hour. Others high $30's to low $40's. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Contact HistoCare wrote: > I hope I get some honest answers out there so here goes, > > Variables are: > > 5yr professionals both HT and non-cert with equal capabilities. > > And assuming routine histo duties (embedding, cutting, etc maybe light grossing) and for kicks lets say primarily working with animal tissue, > > Based on your personal experience, where can these individuals expect to max out as far as hourly pay? Sure, we know it could vary based on institution and location but there definitely is a ceiling. Or alternatively, what WON'T you pay this person regardless of experience. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Contact HistoCare wrote: > I hope I get some honest answers out there so here goes, > > Variables are: > > 5yr professionals both HT and non-cert with equal capabilities. > > And assuming routine histo duties (embedding, cutting, etc maybe light grossing) and for kicks lets say primarily working with animal tissue, > > Based on your personal experience, where can these individuals expect to max out as far as hourly pay? Sure, we know it could vary based on institution and location but there definitely is a ceiling. Or alternatively, what WON'T you pay this person regardless of experience. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From jo-ann.bader <@t> mcgill.ca Mon Sep 10 13:41:19 2012 From: jo-ann.bader <@t> mcgill.ca (Jo-Ann Bader, Ms.) Date: Mon Sep 10 13:43:06 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Lab visit Message-ID: <8C36045F0065CE48906E684F15FD4CB6086C84@exmbx2010-9.campus.MCGILL.CA> Hi All, My colleague is visiting Boston this weekend. She would be very interested in visiting another histology research lab. She will be leaving Montreal early Friday morning. Is there any possibility someone would be interested is showing her around? Jo-Ann Bader Histology Co-Ordinator Goodman Cancer Centre McGill University 1160 Pine Ave. W - Rm 312 Montreal, QC, Canada H3G 1Y6 Tel: 514-398-8270 From TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org Mon Sep 10 14:29:34 2012 From: TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org (Mayer,Toysha N) Date: Mon Sep 10 14:29:37 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the plug Jay. Porscha, Under a separate cover I have also sent you some information on our BS HTL program at MD Anderson. We start taking applications in October for next fall. When will you be moving to Texas? Hope to hear from you soon. Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) Instructor, Education Coordinator Program in Histotechnology School of Health Professions MD Anderson Cancer Center (713) 563-3481 tnmayer@mdanderson.org Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 19:41:15 +0000 From: joelle weaver Subject: RE: [Histonet] Needing Advice To: , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" PorshaIf I were you I would get an HT or HTL certification from the ASCP and then see what the market is like and also what the state licensure is where you will be located. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 09:22:50 -0700 > From: porscha.graddick@yahoo.com > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice > > Ok, here's my issue(s). I currently reside in Georgia & will be graduating in Dec. with an associates degree in medical lab. My plan was to attend a local college and become a certified histologist. Here's the kicker, I will be moving to the Spring, Tx area soon after graduation (which was not in my original plan), but I was wondering if it is best for me to be certified in Ga. or in Tx. Also, is it best for me to be certified in histology at a school or will on the job training do? I just need a little direction. Thanks everyone! > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:55:31 -0500 From: Jay Lundgren Subject: Re: [Histonet] Needing Advice To: joelle weaver Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There is no state licensure for histotechs in Texas. Spring is only 25 miles from Houston, the 4th largest city in the United States, with a world class medical center, including MD Anderson, which runs a histo school. http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/education-and-training/schools-and-programs/school-of-health-professions/school-of-health-professions-student-catalog/areas-of-study/school-of-health-professions-student-catalog-areas-of-study-histotechnology.html Sincerely, Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 16:48:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Porscha Graddick Subject: [Histonet] Needing Advice To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: <1347234496.11608.androidMobile@web125305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'd like to thank everyone for their input... I truly appreciate it :) Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From HornHV <@t> archildrens.org Mon Sep 10 14:40:18 2012 From: HornHV <@t> archildrens.org (Horn, Hazel V) Date: Mon Sep 10 14:40:26 2012 Subject: [Histonet] tissue processors Message-ID: <25A4DE08332B19499904459F00AAACB719BB4A1819@EVS1.archildrens.org> We are approved for a tissue processor this year. Please tell me what you like or don't like about the one you use. Right now we have an ASP 300 and a VIP for backup. Hazel Horn Supervisor of Histology/Autopsy/Transcription Anatomic Pathology Arkansas Children's Hospital 1 Children's Way | Slot 820| Little Rock, AR 72202 501.364.4240 direct | 501.364.1302 office | 501.364.1241 fax hornhv@archildrens.org archildrens.org ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. From alonso.martinezcanabal <@t> utoronto.ca Mon Sep 10 16:32:25 2012 From: alonso.martinezcanabal <@t> utoronto.ca (Alonso Martinez-Canabal) Date: Mon Sep 10 16:32:39 2012 Subject: [Histonet] DAPI problem Message-ID: <000801cd8f9b$c6723a10$5356ae30$@utoronto.ca> Does anyone knows how to remove DAPI? I have some old sections with very deteriorated DAPI. I would like to remove it and stain again, do someone knows? Thank you! From alonso.martinezcanabal <@t> utoronto.ca Mon Sep 10 16:54:53 2012 From: alonso.martinezcanabal <@t> utoronto.ca (Alonso Martinez-Canabal) Date: Mon Sep 10 16:55:06 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RV: DAPI problem Message-ID: <000a01cd8f9e$ea02a8e0$be07faa0$@utoronto.ca> And yes, I would like to remove the dapi residues without affecting the overall Alexa staining. Thank you! -----Mensaje original----- De: Alonso Martinez-Canabal [mailto:alonso.martinezcanabal@utoronto.ca] Enviado el: September-10-12 5:32 PM Para: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' Asunto: DAPI problem Does anyone knows how to remove DAPI? I have some old sections with very deteriorated DAPI. I would like to remove it and stain again, do someone knows? Thank you! From jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com Mon Sep 10 17:55:14 2012 From: jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com (Jay Lundgren) Date: Mon Sep 10 17:55:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a native Houstonian, I can't help myself. Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) From lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 11 04:31:35 2012 From: lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net (Lee & Peggy Wenk) Date: Tue Sep 11 04:31:45 2012 Subject: [Histonet] slide dryer Message-ID: Looking for a small slide dryer, used preferably, for our School of Histotechnology. Not a lot of counter space. Only 6 students, so don?t have a lot of racks at any given time. We have an old Shandon-Lipshaw rectangle metal ?box?slide dryer right now, but the insulation is going on it, so we need to get a new slide dryer. The drying chamber is about 10? x 7?, with the motor/heater towards the back after that. Do NOT have the money or space for one of the new ?round? slide dryers with the see through top. Do NOT want a slide warmer that looks like a long hot plate, as we have too many slides all at once for that. Vendors, or anyone with an idea of where I can get a small rectangular slide dryer ? please contact me at work at pwenk@beaumont.edu Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS Beaumont Hospital Royal Oak, MI 48073 From BMolinari <@t> texasheart.org Tue Sep 11 06:40:41 2012 From: BMolinari <@t> texasheart.org (Molinari, Betsy) Date: Tue Sep 11 06:41:15 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Zinc-Tris mouse hearts Message-ID: Hi, I am going to have some mouse hearts that have been fixed in zinc-Tris fixative. I have never worked with this before. My question is about processing. After doing some looking, I found an article that advised checking the solutions on the processor , the first couple of alcohols , to be sure there is no carry over of formalin. I understand that the object if this fixative is to avoid formalin but is this step necessary? Thank you in advance. Betsy Molinari HT(ASCP) Texas Heart Institute Cardiovascular Pathology 6770 Bertner Ave MC 1-283 Houston, TX 77030 832-355-6524 (lab) 832-355-6812 (fax) [THI Celebrates 50 Years] Betsy Molinari Senior Histology Research Technician 832-355-6524 | BMolinari@texasheart.org www.texasheart.org TEXAS HEART INSTITUTE 6770 Bertner Ave. MC 1-283 | Houston, TX 77030 [Receive electronic news from THI][THI on Facebook][THI on Twitter][THI on YouTube][THI's Flickr page] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information in this e-mail may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review or dissemination or copying of this e-mail and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail from your computer system. From TMcNemar <@t> lmhealth.org Tue Sep 11 09:03:36 2012 From: TMcNemar <@t> lmhealth.org (Tom McNemar) Date: Tue Sep 11 09:03:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Tossing old tissues... Message-ID: Hello all, A question came up during our last JCAHO inspection regarding the dumping of old tissues. Do you just throw out the intact specimen containers with formalin and all into biohazard trash? Do you drain/collect the formalin for other disposal and just place the drained tissues into the biohazard trash? If you drain/collect, do you wear a respirator while doing it? We have always drained and only thrown the tissues into the bio trash and have not used a respirator. We monitor regularly and always make certain to include this task (along with the making of formalin) when monitoring for exposure and are always way below the acceptable limits. I don't think we have ever done and STEL just for the dumping of tissues though. Just wondered what everyone else did. I would like to stop draining and just dispose of container and all but we pay by the pound for disposal. Thanks. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcnemar@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org ________________________________ This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the individual and/or entity to whom it is addressed, and contains information from Licking Memorial Health Systems which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, nor authorized to receive for the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message immediately. You may also contact the LMH Process Improvement Center at 740-348-4641. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Thank you. From Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org Tue Sep 11 09:14:14 2012 From: Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org (Weems, Joyce K.) Date: Tue Sep 11 09:14:31 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Tossing old tissues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We put everything in double red bags and add packets of Neutralex to equal approximate amount needed. We do empty large containers, but I'm thinking about stopping that as well. We have Chemclav on site and have no known problems for the past several years. j Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.weems@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's Hospital and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message, and reply to the sender regarding the error in a separate email. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:04 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Tossing old tissues... Hello all, A question came up during our last JCAHO inspection regarding the dumping of old tissues. Do you just throw out the intact specimen containers with formalin and all into biohazard trash? Do you drain/collect the formalin for other disposal and just place the drained tissues into the biohazard trash? If you drain/collect, do you wear a respirator while doing it? We have always drained and only thrown the tissues into the bio trash and have not used a respirator. We monitor regularly and always make certain to include this task (along with the making of formalin) when monitoring for exposure and are always way below the acceptable limits. I don't think we have ever done and STEL just for the dumping of tissues though. Just wondered what everyone else did. I would like to stop draining and just dispose of container and all but we pay by the pound for disposal. Thanks. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcnemar@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org ________________________________ This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the individual and/or entity to whom it is addressed, and contains information from Licking Memorial Health Systems which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, nor authorized to receive for the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message immediately. You may also contact the LMH Process Improvement Center at 740-348-4641. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). From we3smitty <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 09:17:43 2012 From: we3smitty <@t> yahoo.com (angela smith) Date: Tue Sep 11 09:17:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Hair mount Message-ID: <1347373063.72355.YahooMailClassic@web120402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dose anyone have a hair mount procedure they would like to share? This is unprocessed hair that is mounted on slides. After time we get some major airbubbles and thought of trying nairl polish around the edges, but thought I would ask out in histoworld to see what you all are doing. Thanks From dmccaig <@t> ckha.on.ca Tue Sep 11 09:32:08 2012 From: dmccaig <@t> ckha.on.ca (Diana McCaig) Date: Tue Sep 11 09:33:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear Message-ID: I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 09:52:05 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 09:52:13 2012 Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Diana: The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 09:56:25 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 09:56:33 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Tossing old tissues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347375385.94055.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> We incinerate the old tissue samples. Ren? J. ? ________________________________ From: Tom McNemar To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:03 AM Subject: [Histonet] Tossing old tissues... Hello all, A question came up during our last JCAHO inspection regarding the dumping of old tissues.? Do you just throw out the intact specimen containers with formalin and all into biohazard trash?? Do you drain/collect the formalin for other disposal and just place the drained tissues into the biohazard trash?? If you drain/collect, do you wear a respirator while doing it? We have always drained and only thrown the tissues into the bio trash and have not used a respirator.? We monitor regularly and always make certain to include this task (along with the making of formalin) when monitoring for exposure and are always way below the acceptable limits.? I don't think we have ever done and STEL just for the dumping of tissues though. Just wondered what everyone else did.? I would like to stop draining and just dispose of container and all but we pay by the pound for disposal. Thanks. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcnemar@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org ________________________________ This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the individual and/or entity to whom it is addressed, and contains information from Licking Memorial Health Systems which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, nor authorized to receive for the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message immediately. You may also contact the LMH Process Improvement Center at 740-348-4641. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From JMacDonald <@t> mtsac.edu Tue Sep 11 10:05:32 2012 From: JMacDonald <@t> mtsac.edu (Jennifer MacDonald) Date: Tue Sep 11 10:05:45 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Tossing old tissues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At my previous place of employment we used to separate the tissue from the formalin. The STEL exceeded the PEL so we had to wear respirators. The problem was that anyone entering the room was exposed. Based on this we were able to justify having a outside company dispose of the waste. The company brought barrels and they put the containers (tissue and formalin) in them with packing materials. The barrels were taken off site and incinerated. Jennifer Tom McNemar Sent by: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 09/11/2012 07:05 AM To "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" cc Subject [Histonet] Tossing old tissues... Hello all, A question came up during our last JCAHO inspection regarding the dumping of old tissues. Do you just throw out the intact specimen containers with formalin and all into biohazard trash? Do you drain/collect the formalin for other disposal and just place the drained tissues into the biohazard trash? If you drain/collect, do you wear a respirator while doing it? We have always drained and only thrown the tissues into the bio trash and have not used a respirator. We monitor regularly and always make certain to include this task (along with the making of formalin) when monitoring for exposure and are always way below the acceptable limits. I don't think we have ever done and STEL just for the dumping of tissues though. Just wondered what everyone else did. I would like to stop draining and just dispose of container and all but we pay by the pound for disposal. Thanks. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcnemar@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org< file:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\TMCNEMAR\Application%20Data\Microsoft\Signatures\www.LMHealth.org > ________________________________ This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the individual and/or entity to whom it is addressed, and contains information from Licking Memorial Health Systems which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, nor authorized to receive for the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message immediately. You may also contact the LMH Process Improvement Center at 740-348-4641. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From techmana12 <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 10:09:24 2012 From: techmana12 <@t> yahoo.com (Dorothy Glass) Date: Tue Sep 11 10:09:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides Message-ID: <1347376164.71177.YahooMailClassic@web114504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What is the number of years that you must keep blocks and slides for future reference according to CAP and/or Joint Commission??I have heard 5 years for blks, and 10 years for slides. Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 10:12:37 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 10:12:41 2012 Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides In-Reply-To: <1347376164.71177.YahooMailClassic@web114504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1347376164.71177.YahooMailClassic@web114504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1347376357.8836.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Most states have their own regulations. I kept the blocks for 9 years and the slides "for-ever" but after 9 years they were sent to a company that kept them for us. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Dorothy Glass To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:09 AM Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides What is the number of years that you must keep blocks and slides for future reference according to CAP and/or Joint Commission??I have heard 5 years for blks, and 10 years for slides. Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Valerie.Hannen <@t> parrishmed.com Tue Sep 11 10:15:20 2012 From: Valerie.Hannen <@t> parrishmed.com (Hannen, Valerie) Date: Tue Sep 11 10:15:29 2012 Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides In-Reply-To: <1347376164.71177.YahooMailClassic@web114504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <450B7A81EDA0C54E97C53D60F00776C323163BD9E8@isexstore03> Dorothy, We are required by CAP to keep both our blocks and slides for 10 years. Valerie A. Hannen, MLT(ASCP),HTL,SU(FL) Histology Section Chief Parrish Medical Center 951 N. Washington Ave. Titusville, Florida 32976 Phone:(321) 268-6333 ext. 7506 Fax: (321) 268-6149 valerie.hannen@parrishmed.com -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Dorothy Glass Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:09 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides What is the number of years that you must keep blocks and slides for future reference according to CAP and/or Joint Commission??I have heard 5 years for blks, and 10 years for slides. Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet =================== "This email is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately delete this message. Thank you" =================== From mpence <@t> grhs.net Tue Sep 11 10:17:42 2012 From: mpence <@t> grhs.net (Mike Pence) Date: Tue Sep 11 10:17:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides In-Reply-To: <1347376164.71177.YahooMailClassic@web114504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <661949901A768E4F9CC16D8AF8F2838C03974EB0@is-e2k3.grhs.net> CAP states 10 years for both slides and blocks. ANP.12500 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Dorothy Glass Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:09 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides What is the number of years that you must keep blocks and slides for future reference according to CAP and/or Joint Commission??I have heard 5 years for blks, and 10 years for slides. Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From thiggins <@t> cddmedical.com Tue Sep 11 10:36:55 2012 From: thiggins <@t> cddmedical.com (Tim Higgins) Date: Tue Sep 11 10:37:03 2012 Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides In-Reply-To: <20120911151322.C4D281B0C011@barracuda.crvinc.net> References: <20120911151322.C4D281B0C011@barracuda.crvinc.net> Message-ID: <5A380F8868DC4890A76BECDEF9426DDA@cdd.loc> Hey Dorothy, It's 10 years for CAP, but you need to check with your state as well. I know for New York you must hold them for 20 years. Thanks, Tim Message: 20 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 08:09:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Dorothy Glass Subject: [Histonet] blocks and slides To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: <1347376164.71177.YahooMailClassic@web114504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 What is the number of years that you must keep blocks and slides for future reference according to CAP and/or Joint Commission? I have heard 5 years for blks, and 10 years for slides. Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC From TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org Tue Sep 11 10:41:34 2012 From: TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org (Mayer,Toysha N) Date: Tue Sep 11 10:41:42 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Message-ID: Ooh, great question for my students next semester. Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) Instructor, Education Coordinator Program in Histotechnology School of Health Professions MD Anderson Cancer Center (713) 563-3481 tnmayer@mdanderson.org Message: 16 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 From: "Diana McCaig" Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear To: Diana McCaig , "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diana: The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 11:01:35 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 11:01:42 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Toysha: Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60?C 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow 6- after staining you will oven?dry the sections. I think you should try the method instead. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Mayer,Toysha N" To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Ooh, great question for my students next semester.? Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as? the solvent of the counterstain. ? Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) Instructor, Education Coordinator Program in Histotechnology School of Health Professions MD Anderson Cancer Center (713) 563-3481 tnmayer@mdanderson.org Message: 16 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 From: "Diana McCaig" Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than ??? dehydrate??? and clear To: Message-ID: ??? Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii" I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than ??? dehydrate??? and clear To: Diana McCaig , ??? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ??? Message-ID: ??? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diana: The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Tue Sep 11 12:14:41 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue Sep 11 12:15:44 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > From lharris <@t> samhealth.org Tue Sep 11 12:22:43 2012 From: lharris <@t> samhealth.org (Lori Harris) Date: Tue Sep 11 12:22:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <450EDC37E404D142AF67D7314C954C8A3B9E78A11E@SHSMAILVI01.int.samhealth.net> We have been using the oven dry method for special stains for about four years now and it works wonderfully. Lori A. Harris, HT (ASCP) Histology Section Lead GSRMC Pathology Lab 3600 NW Samaritan Drive Corvallis, OR 97330 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:15 AM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org Tue Sep 11 12:30:22 2012 From: Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org (Morken, Timothy) Date: Tue Sep 11 12:30:34 2012 Subject: drying and coverslipping machines....RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Message-ID: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01672F@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> If you dry the slides do you coverslip on a coverslipping machine - in which you have to put into xylene to run? Tim Morken -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Lori Harris Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:23 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than We have been using the oven dry method for special stains for about four years now and it works wonderfully. Lori A. Harris, HT (ASCP) Histology Section Lead GSRMC Pathology Lab 3600 NW Samaritan Drive Corvallis, OR 97330 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:15 AM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From eca9 <@t> georgetown.edu Tue Sep 11 12:36:07 2012 From: eca9 <@t> georgetown.edu (Eva Permaul) Date: Tue Sep 11 12:36:40 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Pronase antigen retrieval Message-ID: Hello out there in Histoland, I have to do some bulk runs with Pronase antigen retrieval. Up until now the number of slides have been so few that I have been able to do the antigen retrieval by dropping pronase on each slide and incubating them in a humidified chamber at 37C for 20min. I now have so many slides that my manager has suggested that I make up large amounts of the Pronase (250ml) and submerge the slides. She suggested placing the container in the oven earlier to allow the Pronase to get to 37C before I add the slides. How long is the Pronase ok to be keep at 37C before I use it? How long in advance can I place it in the 37C before it looses its ability to be used as an antigen retrieval? Thanks for all your help, Eva Permaul HTSR From dmccaig <@t> ckha.on.ca Tue Sep 11 12:23:20 2012 From: dmccaig <@t> ckha.on.ca (Diana McCaig) Date: Tue Sep 11 12:37:03 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: Would this work for auto cover slipping (tape film)if they were set in the xylene reservoir prior to cover slipping? Diana -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: September-11-12 1:15 PM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From lharris <@t> samhealth.org Tue Sep 11 12:47:27 2012 From: lharris <@t> samhealth.org (Lori Harris) Date: Tue Sep 11 12:47:33 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <450EDC37E404D142AF67D7314C954C8A3B9E78A165@SHSMAILVI01.int.samhealth.net> We use tape coverslipping. Some techs dip the slides in the xylene on stainer before adding them to the coverslipper and some just use the amount of xylene coming out of the drip on the coverslipper. Either works fine and we have had no problems. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:23 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Would this work for auto cover slipping (tape film)if they were set in the xylene reservoir prior to cover slipping? Diana -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: September-11-12 1:15 PM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From jqb7 <@t> cdc.gov Tue Sep 11 12:50:45 2012 From: jqb7 <@t> cdc.gov (Bartlett, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)) Date: Tue Sep 11 12:51:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> <450EDC37E404D142AF67D7314C954C8A3B9E78A11E@SHSMAILVI01.int.samhealth.net> Message-ID: So you do not use as automated coverslipper? Jeanine H. Bartlett Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Infectious Diseases Pathology Branch 404-639-3590 jeanine.bartlett@cdc.hhs.gov -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Lori Harris Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:23 PM To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than We have been using the oven dry method for special stains for about four years now and it works wonderfully. Lori A. Harris, HT (ASCP) Histology Section Lead GSRMC Pathology Lab 3600 NW Samaritan Drive Corvallis, OR 97330 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:15 AM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From o.m.gallagher <@t> sheffield.ac.uk Tue Sep 11 13:06:13 2012 From: o.m.gallagher <@t> sheffield.ac.uk (Orla M Gallagher) Date: Tue Sep 11 13:06:23 2012 Subject: [Histonet] immunofluorescence on methyl methacrylate embedded human bone samples Message-ID: Dear Histonetters, Would there be a problem with autofluorescence in bone when performing immunofluorescence on formalin-fixed methyl methacrylate-embedded human bone marrow trephines? Thanks, Orla -- ************************** Ms. Orla Gallagher Bone Analysis Laboratory Mellanby Centre for Bone Research D Floor Medical School University of Sheffield Beech Hill Road Sheffield S10 2RX Website: http://mellanbycentre.dept.shef.ac.uk Tel: 00353114-2713337 (office) 00353114-2713174 (lab) E-Mail: o.m.gallagher@sheffield.ac.uk *STOP*: Do you really need to print this e-mail? *BE GREEN:* Keep it on the screen. *Times Higher Education University of the Year* Data protection and confidentiality: The information contained in this message or any appended documents may be privileged and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distributions, other dissemination or use of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you receive this correspondence in error please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete/destroy what you have received. From contact <@t> histocare.com Tue Sep 11 13:13:40 2012 From: contact <@t> histocare.com (Contact HistoCare) Date: Tue Sep 11 13:13:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Histotechnician pay-max out In-Reply-To: <0E8B1B4E-B834-472B-959D-6E5E6E701C47@yahoo.com> References: <201209101704.q8AH4P2Y012474@mail10c40.carrierzone.com> <0E8B1B4E-B834-472B-959D-6E5E6E701C47@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <95B57216-D9BE-4A88-973E-EEFD75B781E5@histocare.com> Hi, Thanks for your response and the others as well. I don't really think it's a lol situation here. I've seen uncertified professionals with good work ethic and quality results get mid 20s easy. While they may provide a guide for lab managers to refer to, thank God NSH doesn't set pay rates. This is interesting though, as it substantiates the feeling a lot of Histo professionals have that their work contribution is not only under appreciated but unappreciated considering the effect a quality slide has on diagnosing a serious disease. I believe a sharp individual who knows his/her skills and can demonstrate them effectively can negotiate higher pay. It seems hospitals pay less than a private lab would and over ten years successful experience should definitely garner well over 30. They question is whether they are strong enough to demand it via negotiation. Kim, what part of the country are you and what type of institution have you had the most exposure to? Again Thanks for your response. On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Kim Donadio wrote: > Low to mid 20's. Anything over mid 20' s should be 10 yrs and up in my opinion and from what I've seen. And that person that said 40$ a hour lol. I'd like to see that job > Also I think nsh has a salary scale you might could look up. Good luck > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 10, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Contact HistoCare wrote: > >> I hope I get some honest answers out there so here goes, >> >> Variables are: >> >> 5yr professionals both HT and non-cert with equal capabilities. >> >> And assuming routine histo duties (embedding, cutting, etc maybe light grossing) and for kicks lets say primarily working with animal tissue, >> >> Based on your personal experience, where can these individuals expect to max out as far as hourly pay? Sure, we know it could vary based on institution and location but there definitely is a ceiling. Or alternatively, what WON'T you pay this person regardless of experience. >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From Kim.Kolman <@t> va.gov Tue Sep 11 13:42:34 2012 From: Kim.Kolman <@t> va.gov (Kolman, Kimberly D.) Date: Tue Sep 11 13:43:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] dissecting pins Message-ID: <9C32F30B6662D74A8419DDDB7E66656A0774A845@VHAV15MSGA1.v15.med.va.gov> Does anyone know where I can find some large-head pins to use when pinning out large tissue specimens for fixation? We already use the large "T-pins" and the regular bulletin board push-pins are too small. We need something with a larger, easier to grip plastic head, and long (at least ? inch) pin shaft. Thanks for your help (and hope it might be one of our 'contract vendors', or I won't be able to use them anyway... L) Kim Kimberly D. Kolman, HT, (ASCP) Diagnostics 115 VA Eastern Kansas Health Care System 4101 S. 4th St. Trfwy. Leavenworth, KS 66048 ph: 913-682-2000 x 52537/52539 From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 14:13:40 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 14:13:45 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <1347390820.99147.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> EWayne: All mounting media contains a so called "solvent". Permount contains toluene (not as nasty as xylene) and will "penetrate" the section provided it is absolutely dehydrated (in an oven in this case). You just have to finish the HC (or IHC) protocol and pop-in the slides in the oven. Balsam of Canada (the resin) is dissolved in xylene (always) so the "penetration" is also assured. Under separate cover I am sending you my articles. Try this method, you will love it! Ren? J. ________________________________ From: E. Wayne Johnson To: Rene J Buesa Cc: "Mayer,Toysha N" ; "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration.? I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains.? I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using?? Does it matter?? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue.? Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene:? if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested.? Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as? the solvent of the counterstain. >? > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear > To: > Message-ID: >? ? ? > Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear > To: Diana McCaig, >? ? ? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >? ? ? > Message-ID: >? ? ? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > >? ? From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 14:19:48 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 14:19:53 2012 Subject: drying and coverslipping machines....RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01672F@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> References: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01672F@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <1347391188.84647.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I have used Sakura film and Leica glass coverslippers (slides directly from the oven).. Ren? J.? ________________________________ From: "Morken, Timothy" To: Lori Harris ; E. Wayne Johnson ; Rene J Buesa Cc: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" ; "Mayer, Toysha N" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:30 PM Subject: drying and coverslipping machines....RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than If you dry the slides do you coverslip on a coverslipping machine - in which you have to put into xylene to run? Tim Morken -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Lori Harris Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:23 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than We have been using the oven dry method for special stains for about four years now and it works wonderfully. Lori A. Harris, HT (ASCP) Histology Section Lead GSRMC Pathology Lab 3600 NW Samaritan Drive Corvallis, OR 97330 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:15 AM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration.? I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains.? I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using?? Does it matter?? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue.? Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene:? if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested.? Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as? the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear > To: > Message-ID: >? ? ? > Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear > To: Diana McCaig, >? ? ? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >? ? ? > Message-ID: >? ? ? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 14:21:27 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 14:21:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <1347391287.39375.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> You do not need to "wet" the dried slides in xylene before using the automted coverslipper. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: E. Wayne Johnson ; Rene J Buesa Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; "Mayer, Toysha N" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:23 PM Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Would this work for auto cover slipping? (tape film)if they were set in the xylene reservoir prior to cover slipping? Diana -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: September-11-12 1:15 PM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration.? I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains.? I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using?? Does it matter?? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue.? Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene:? if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested.? Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as? the solvent of the counterstain. >? > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear > To: > Message-ID: >? ? ? > Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear > To: Diana McCaig, >? ? ? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >? ? ? > Message-ID: >? ? ? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > >? ? _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From one_angel_secret <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 14:32:45 2012 From: one_angel_secret <@t> yahoo.com (Kim Donadio) Date: Tue Sep 11 14:32:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histotechnician pay-max out In-Reply-To: <95B57216-D9BE-4A88-973E-EEFD75B781E5@histocare.com> References: <201209101704.q8AH4P2Y012474@mail10c40.carrierzone.com> <0E8B1B4E-B834-472B-959D-6E5E6E701C47@yahoo.com> <95B57216-D9BE-4A88-973E-EEFD75B781E5@histocare.com> Message-ID: <1347391965.35563.YahooMailNeo@web112306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I think its safe to say I have never seen a 5 year tech make $40 a hour ( in a hospital or privatly ). And I think its rude to post my comment back on the forum when I sent it to you privatly. ? I would be interested if all the other managers out there could please direct us all to the $40 a hour jobs that only require 5 years of experiance. ? Everybody wants to raise our worth and pay rate. But lets be honest. ? Thanks ________________________________ From: Contact HistoCare To: Kim Donadio Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: Histotechnician pay-max out Hi, Thanks for your response and the others as well. I don't really think it's a lol situation here. I've seen uncertified professionals with good work ethic and quality results get mid 20s easy. While they may provide a guide for lab managers to refer to, thank God NSH doesn't set pay rates. This is interesting though, as it substantiates the feeling a lot of Histo professionals have that their work contribution is not only under appreciated but unappreciated considering the effect a quality slide has on diagnosing a serious disease. I believe a sharp individual who knows his/her skills and can demonstrate them effectively can negotiate higher pay. It seems hospitals pay less than a private lab would and over ten years successful experience should definitely garner well over 30. They question is whether they are strong enough to demand it via negotiation. Kim, what part of the country are you and what type of institution have you had the most exposure to? Again Thanks for your response. On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Kim Donadio wrote: > Low to mid 20's. Anything over mid 20' s should be 10 yrs and up in my opinion and from what I've seen. And that person that said 40$ a hour lol. I'd like to see that job > Also I think nsh has a salary scale you might could look up. Good luck > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 10, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Contact HistoCare wrote: > >> I hope I get some honest answers out there so here goes, >> >> Variables are: >> >> 5yr professionals both HT and non-cert with equal capabilities. >> >> And assuming routine histo duties (embedding, cutting, etc maybe light grossing) and for kicks lets say primarily working with animal tissue, >> >> Based on your personal experience, where can these individuals expect to max out as far as hourly pay? Sure, we know it could vary based on institution and location but there definitely is a ceiling. Or alternatively, what WON'T you pay this person regardless of experience. >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org Tue Sep 11 14:38:52 2012 From: TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org (Mayer,Toysha N) Date: Tue Sep 11 14:38:55 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: <642d311b-720e-4d9e-bf86-c9304d095e2a@DCPWPEXHUBCAS01.mdanderson.edu> References: <642d311b-720e-4d9e-bf86-c9304d095e2a@DCPWPEXHUBCAS01.mdanderson.edu> Message-ID: ------------------------------ Well, actually that is something that I do not teach since that method is not on the BOC exam. I only teach what is on the exam and usual methods in laboratories. If the ASCP places it on the exam then I will cover it, but not until then, they go by what is in Carson's text. None of our past students have mentioned anything like that on the registry Rene, but not all of them have taken it this year. The Lean methodology that I was referring to is 'taking the waste out of procedures' to speed up the workflow, and adding the step of drying before coverslipping may slow things down. The number crunchers will look at it that way. Toysha Message: 6 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:01:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than To: "Mayer,Toysha N" , "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Message-ID: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Toysha: Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; 2- if you dehydrate ??? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60??C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ??? processed ??? dried (usually at the same 60??C before staining) ??? stained and an additional step at 60??C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60??C 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60??C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow 6- after staining you will oven??dry the sections. I think you should try the method instead. Ren?? J. ________________________________ From: "Mayer,Toysha N" To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Ooh, great question for my students next semester.?? Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as?? the solvent of the counterstain. ?? Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.?? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.?? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.?? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) Instructor, Education Coordinator Program in Histotechnology School of Health Professions MD Anderson Cancer Center (713) 563-3481 tnmayer@mdanderson.org Message: 16 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 From: "Diana McCaig" Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than ?????? dehydrate?????? and clear To: Message-ID: ?????? Content-Type: text/plain;?????? charset="us-ascii" I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.?? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.?? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than ?????? dehydrate?????? and clear To: Diana McCaig , ?????? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ?????? Message-ID: ?????? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diana: The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 11 ***************************************** From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 14:49:57 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Tue Sep 11 14:50:01 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: <642d311b-720e-4d9e-bf86-c9304d095e2a@DCPWPEXHUBCAS01.mdanderson.edu> Message-ID: <1347392997.58680.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Toysha: I think you have some confusions about what Lean is. The fundamental premise of Lean is that "every step you do in the flow, will "add value" to your product", besides eliminating "waste" or "muda" as is called in Japanese. If you go from stained section to cover-slipped section you are adding value. Lets assume that the value is an "arbitrary" "2". If you dehydrate the sections and latter you clear them and use 3 alcohols and 2 xylenes, each of those steps will add 2/5 = 0.4 units of value per step. If, on the other hand, you oven dry your stained sections and cover-slip them after wards, meaning that you have just 1 step, that step has a value of 2/1 = 2. This means that oven drying the stained sections before cover-slipping (just 1 step) that step adds the same value (2) that your "traditional" 5 steps and that increases the Lean value by a factor of 5X Understand? If your "crunchers" look it that way, they do not understand Lean either! Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Mayer,Toysha N" To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:38 PM Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 11 ------------------------------ Well, actually that is something that I do not teach since that method is not on the BOC exam.? I only teach what is on the exam and usual methods in laboratories.? If the ASCP places it on the exam then I will cover it, but not until then, they go by what is in Carson's text.? None of our past students have mentioned anything like that on the registry Rene, but not all of them have taken it this year. The Lean methodology that I was referring to is 'taking the waste out of procedures' to speed up the workflow, and adding the step of drying before coverslipping may slow things down.? The number crunchers will look at it that way. Toysha Message: 6 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:01:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather ??? than To: "Mayer,Toysha N" , ??? "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" ??? Message-ID: ??? <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Toysha: Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; 2- if you dehydrate ??? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60??C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ??? processed ??? dried (usually at the same 60??C before staining) ??? stained and an additional step at 60??C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60??C 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60??C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow 6- after staining you will oven??dry the sections. I think you should try the method instead. Ren?? J. ________________________________ From: "Mayer,Toysha N" To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Ooh, great question for my students next semester.?? Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as?? the solvent of the counterstain. ?? Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.?? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.?? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.?? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) Instructor, Education Coordinator Program in Histotechnology School of Health Professions MD Anderson Cancer Center (713) 563-3481 tnmayer@mdanderson.org Message: 16 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 From: "Diana McCaig" Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than ?????? dehydrate?????? and clear To: Message-ID: ?????? Content-Type: text/plain;?????? charset="us-ascii" I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.?? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.?? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than ?????? dehydrate?????? and clear To: Diana McCaig , ?????? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ?????? Message-ID: ?????? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diana: The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 11 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Tue Sep 11 15:08:22 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Tue Sep 11 15:08:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Histotechnician pay-max out In-Reply-To: <95B57216-D9BE-4A88-973E-EEFD75B781E5@histocare.com> References: <201209101704.q8AH4P2Y012474@mail10c40.carrierzone.com>, , <0E8B1B4E-B834-472B-959D-6E5E6E701C47@yahoo.com>, <95B57216-D9BE-4A88-973E-EEFD75B781E5@histocare.com> Message-ID: Thanks for sharing. This is enlightening. I wish I was making what you suggest!Joelle Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: contact@histocare.com > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:13:40 -0500 > To: one_angel_secret@yahoo.com > CC: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Histotechnician pay-max out > > Hi, > > Thanks for your response and the others as well. I don't really think it's a lol situation here. I've seen uncertified professionals with good work ethic and quality results get mid 20s easy. While they may provide a guide for lab managers to refer to, thank God NSH doesn't set pay rates. > > This is interesting though, as it substantiates the feeling a lot of Histo professionals have that their work contribution is not only under appreciated but unappreciated considering the effect a quality slide has on diagnosing a serious disease. > > I believe a sharp individual who knows his/her skills and can demonstrate them effectively can negotiate higher pay. > > It seems hospitals pay less than a private lab would and over ten years successful experience should definitely garner well over 30. They question is whether they are strong enough to demand it via negotiation. > > Kim, what part of the country are you and what type of institution have you had the most exposure to? Again Thanks for your response. > > On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Kim Donadio wrote: > > > Low to mid 20's. Anything over mid 20' s should be 10 yrs and up in my opinion and from what I've seen. And that person that said 40$ a hour lol. I'd like to see that job > > Also I think nsh has a salary scale you might could look up. Good luck > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Sep 10, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Contact HistoCare wrote: > > > >> I hope I get some honest answers out there so here goes, > >> > >> Variables are: > >> > >> 5yr professionals both HT and non-cert with equal capabilities. > >> > >> And assuming routine histo duties (embedding, cutting, etc maybe light grossing) and for kicks lets say primarily working with animal tissue, > >> > >> Based on your personal experience, where can these individuals expect to max out as far as hourly pay? Sure, we know it could vary based on institution and location but there definitely is a ceiling. Or alternatively, what WON'T you pay this person regardless of experience. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Histonet mailing list > >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com Tue Sep 11 19:30:49 2012 From: amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com (Amos Brooks) Date: Tue Sep 11 19:30:52 2012 Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear Message-ID: Hi, My choice to air dry rather than dehydrate in ETOH & xylene is based on the stain rather than the spooky xylene hazard boogyman. Yes, not using xylene if it is not really needed is not a bad idea, but the main reason I air dry some stains is the alcohols remove some of the stains. Ever have a beautiful Luxol Fast Blue bleach out on you? The most exasperating thing in the world! Generally stains that end in water can easily be air dried. Something alcoholic like eosin or Movat's Pentachrome ending in alcoholic saffron might as well be finished traditionally. I air dry any stain that is counterstained in Nuclear Fast Red, Light Green, Methyl Green. I have air dried IHCs with no ill effects too. Don't try it with fluorescents though, that would be bad ... and pointless. I don't put them in an oven. I set them at the front of the fume hood and go do something else for a few minutes. If I want to rush it I close the sash to increase the flow rate for a bit. (Of course it is opened back up right after so the draft works properly.) Amos On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM, wrote: > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, > cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then > coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate > and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , > allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in > xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain > gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues > on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > From ibernard <@t> uab.edu Wed Sep 12 05:40:02 2012 From: ibernard <@t> uab.edu (Ian R Bernard) Date: Wed Sep 12 05:40:15 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Tossing old tissues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Under an approved fume hood for 10% formaldehyde fumes, we separate the reagent from the tissues. The liquid is disposed of in down the drain (approved in CO) and the tissues are left in the empty container and disposed of in biohazard bag/containers. This minimizes the weight going into each red bag container since this can be costly. Keeping the container, helps minimizes the residue fumes associated with the biohazard containers for disposal workers. IB -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:04 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Tossing old tissues... Hello all, A question came up during our last JCAHO inspection regarding the dumping of old tissues. Do you just throw out the intact specimen containers with formalin and all into biohazard trash? Do you drain/collect the formalin for other disposal and just place the drained tissues into the biohazard trash? If you drain/collect, do you wear a respirator while doing it? We have always drained and only thrown the tissues into the bio trash and have not used a respirator. We monitor regularly and always make certain to include this task (along with the making of formalin) when monitoring for exposure and are always way below the acceptable limits. I don't think we have ever done and STEL just for the dumping of tissues though. Just wondered what everyone else did. I would like to stop draining and just dispose of container and all but we pay by the pound for disposal. Thanks. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcnemar@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org ________________________________ This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the individual and/or entity to whom it is addressed, and contains information from Licking Memorial Health Systems which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, nor authorized to receive for the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message immediately. You may also contact the LMH Process Improvement Center at 740-348-4641. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From HornHV <@t> archildrens.org Wed Sep 12 07:57:22 2012 From: HornHV <@t> archildrens.org (Horn, Hazel V) Date: Wed Sep 12 07:57:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25A4DE08332B19499904459F00AAACB719BB4A1829@EVS1.archildrens.org> I suppose my age will show here but I was always taught to NEVER let slides dry out unless the procedure indicated such. Is there no drying artifact when you let these slide dry before coverslipping? Hazel Horn Supervisor of Histology/Autopsy/Transcription Anatomic Pathology Arkansas Children's Hospital 1 Children's Way | Slot 820| Little Rock, AR 72202 501.364.4240 direct | 501.364.1302 office | 501.364.1241 fax hornhv@archildrens.org archildrens.org 100 YEARS YOUNG! JOIN THE PARTY AT ach100.org -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Amos Brooks Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:31 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear Hi, My choice to air dry rather than dehydrate in ETOH & xylene is based on the stain rather than the spooky xylene hazard boogyman. Yes, not using xylene if it is not really needed is not a bad idea, but the main reason I air dry some stains is the alcohols remove some of the stains. Ever have a beautiful Luxol Fast Blue bleach out on you? The most exasperating thing in the world! Generally stains that end in water can easily be air dried. Something alcoholic like eosin or Movat's Pentachrome ending in alcoholic saffron might as well be finished traditionally. I air dry any stain that is counterstained in Nuclear Fast Red, Light Green, Methyl Green. I have air dried IHCs with no ill effects too. Don't try it with fluorescents though, that would be bad ... and pointless. I don't put them in an oven. I set them at the front of the fume hood and go do something else for a few minutes. If I want to rush it I close the sash to increase the flow rate for a bit. (Of course it is opened back up right after so the draft works properly.) Amos On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM, wrote: > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, > cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then > coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate > and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , > allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in > xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain > gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term > issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Wed Sep 12 08:49:23 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 12 08:50:35 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <1347390820.99147.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> <1347390820.99147.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <505092E3.60206@pigsqq.org> Dishwashing machines are not at all common in China even in Beijing so we could not find dishwasher detergent nearby. But we took a bus and subway ride toward the city center to Zhongguancun (the computer district) and found a Carrefour's (Jia Le Fu ???) that had one brand of powdered detergent "Finish" (Reckett Benckiser). Finish was formerly called "Electrasol". Actually I was a bit afraid of "Finish". If I had known it was the same thing as the familiar Electrasol, I would not have had any concerns. Anyway, we took the Finish powder back to the lab where we had a covered water bath waiting at 90C. I mixed 40 grams in with 2L of tap water and we followed the protocol Rene' sent with some test tissues from some pigs we examined a few days ago (lung, liver, heart, spleen, kidney, gut). We heated the detergent solution on an induction stove and poured in into some square glass jars in the water bath. The procedure took the paraffin right off. We did an H&E and dried the slide in the 60C oven after a water wash to clean up after Eosin. Ver-r-ry nice result. Jane tried the technique then by herself with 3 more slides including one slide with some honking big pieces of pig cerebellum. The sections all stayed put on the slides. Sometimes we can lose most of the cerebellum in processing, so we think it is a good demonstration that section loss is not going to be much of a problem. The stain was a Harris hematoxylin regressed with 1% HCl. We blued some with tap water and some with Scott's. I sort of prefer the plain tap water bluing. Our Eosin is an Eosin/Biebrich Scarlet (Acid Red 66)/Orange G that we make up. We usually use a treatment in alcoholic Picric Acid to get rid of formalin pigment but we omitted that step today and the slides turned out well. Indeed these pigs were a field necropsy and the formalin was simple 10% unbuffered formalin in plain local farm tap water, but there were only some traces of formalin pigment. We are wondering if perhaps the detergent is taking out some of the formalin pigment for us. We got a few white paraffin spots on one slide but even that would not be an issue in reading or photographing the slide. Jane thinks she can tweak the procedure to eliminate the paraffin spots. Jane's opinion on the procedure? She will be bottling up all of the xylenes and alcohols and storing them away first thing tomorrow morning. This fixes a big problem for us because the histolab is on the first floor along with some offices. We do our work under a fume hood and we are careful, but we had an incident where students left containers of xylene uncapped outside the hood overnight in hot weather vaporizing a large amount of xylene into the hallway. Not cool. We moved the tissue processor and autostainer to a remoter spot on the 4th floor but the water quality issues there made our autostainer a problem. We can now bring our autostainer back and set it up for special and routine stains. The procedure with detergent from beginning to end is significantly shorter than the xylene alcohols stain alcohols xylene procedure and we will dramatically reduce our consumption and waste output of xylene and our consumption of ethanol. Very cool. Thanks EW Johnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing On 9/12/2012 3:13 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > EWayne: > All mounting media contains a so called "solvent". Permount contains > toluene (not as nasty as xylene) and will "penetrate" the section > provided it is absolutely dehydrated (in an oven in this case). > You just have to finish the HC (or IHC) protocol and pop-in the slides > in the oven. > Balsam of Canada (the resin) is dissolved in xylene (always) so the > "penetration" is also assured. > Under separate cover I am sending you my articles. > Try this method, you will love it! > Ren? J. > > *From:* E. Wayne Johnson > *To:* Rene J Buesa > *Cc:* "Mayer,Toysha N" ; > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:14 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the > loss of some stains in dehydration. > I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven > dehydration. I will see how it > works for me. > > I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much > hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as > not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl > alcohol and acetone dehydration called for > in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides > could just be popped into the oven. > > What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried > about penetration of the mountant > into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will > neutral balsam still work ok? > > Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating > xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming > more and more of an issue and a pain for us. > > EWJohnson > Enruikang Ag Tech > Beijing. > > > On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > > Toysha: > > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that > explains some of your comments, like: > > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take > about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending > on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of > slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it > will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining > procedure; > > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > > I think you should try the method instead. > > Ren? J. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > > > To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > '" > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require > dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the > counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, > we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as > well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to > blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 > min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger > number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean > methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the > extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the > slide. > > > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, > but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is > better in my opinion. > > > > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > > Instructor, Education Coordinator > > Program in Histotechnology > > School of Health Professions > > MD Anderson Cancer Center > > (713) 563-3481 > > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > > > > > > Message: 16 > > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > > From: "Diana McCaig"> > > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > > dehydrate and clear > > To: > > > Message-ID: > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are > dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, > air dried then coverslip. > > > > > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to > dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the > slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and > dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the > counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a > better resolution. > > > > > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term > issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > > > > > Diana > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 17 > > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Rene J Buesa> > > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > > dehydrate and clear > > To: Diana McCaig>, > > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > " > > > > > Message-ID: > > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Diana: > > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way > it has been done for more than 150 years". > > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short > answer to this question is: NO!!! > > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally > eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of > stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) > but the routine as well (the H&E). > > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is > NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, > but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you > add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will > have transparency problems. > > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections > during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about > your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene > from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > > Ren? J. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Diana McCaig> > > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are > dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, > air dried then coverslip. > > > > > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to > dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the > slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and > dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the > counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a > better resolution. > > > > > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term > issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > > > > > Diana > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Histonet mailing list > > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ > > Histonet mailing list > > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > > > > > From rsrichmond <@t> gmail.com Wed Sep 12 08:50:39 2012 From: rsrichmond <@t> gmail.com (Bob Richmond) Date: Wed Sep 12 08:50:44 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: dissecting pins Message-ID: Kimberly D. Kolman, HT, (ASCP) at the VA center in Leavenworth KS asks: >>Does anyone know where I can find some large-head pins to use when pinning out large tissue specimens for fixation? We already use the large "T-pins" and the regular bulletin board push-pins are too small. We need something with a larger, easier to grip plastic head, and long (at least ? inch) pin shaft. - Thanks for your help (and hope it might be one of our 'contract vendors', or I won't be able to use them anyway... L)<< Go to any of the big stores that sell sewing supplies - they have innumerable varieties of pins - and pick out what you want. This is one of a number of items used in surgical grossing that you have to buy cheaply on the open market or scrounge, like hacksaws for cutting bone, plastic rulers, metal skewers - I have a whole kit bag of such items that I carry to my various jobs. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Maryville TN From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 09:36:42 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Wed Sep 12 09:36:52 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <505092E3.60206@pigsqq.org> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> <1347390820.99147.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <505092E3.60206@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <1347460602.69938.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> EWayne (et al): So, there you have it! He (or she) who still uses xylene in the histology lab is just because he (or she) has decided to do so! At this moment what you describe is standard procedure for several private labs in the US and the US Virgin Islands, Canada, Russia and Spain. Besides dewaxing with dishwasher soap and air drying before cover-slipping, you can also eliminate xylene from tissue processing by just following the instructions outlinedin the articles I sent. you. Try to contact as many colleagues as you can and "spread the word": xylene is out of our lives, as long as we want to. Thank you for the information Ren? J. ________________________________ From: E. Wayne Johnson To: Rene J Buesa Cc: "Mayer,Toysha N" ; "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Dishwashing machines are not at all common in China even in Beijing so we could not find dishwasher detergent nearby.?? But we took a bus and subway ride toward the city center to Zhongguancun (the computer district) and found a Carrefour's (Jia Le Fu ???) that had one brand of powdered detergent "Finish" (Reckett Benckiser). Finish was formerly called "Electrasol".? Actually I was a bit afraid of "Finish".? If I had known it was the same thing as the familiar Electrasol, I would not have had any concerns. Anyway, we took the Finish powder back to the lab where we had a covered water bath waiting at 90C. I mixed 40 grams in with 2L of tap water and we followed the protocol Rene' sent with some test tissues from some pigs we examined a few days ago (lung, liver, heart, spleen, kidney, gut). We heated the detergent solution on an induction stove and poured in into some square glass jars in the water bath. The procedure took the paraffin right off.? We did an H&E and dried the slide in the 60C oven after a water wash to clean up after Eosin.? Ver-r-ry nice result. Jane tried the technique then by herself with 3 more slides including one slide with some honking big pieces of pig cerebellum. The sections all stayed put on the slides.? Sometimes we can lose most of the cerebellum in processing, so we think it is a good demonstration that section loss is not going to be much of a problem. The stain was a Harris hematoxylin regressed with 1% HCl.? We blued some with tap water and some with Scott's.? I sort of prefer the plain tap water bluing. Our Eosin is an Eosin/Biebrich Scarlet (Acid Red 66)/Orange G that we make up.? We usually use a treatment in alcoholic Picric Acid to get rid of formalin pigment but we omitted that step today and the slides turned out well.? Indeed these pigs were a field necropsy and the formalin was simple 10% unbuffered formalin in plain local farm tap water, but there were only some traces of formalin pigment.? We are wondering if perhaps the detergent is taking out some of the formalin pigment for us. We got a few white paraffin spots on one slide but even that would not be an issue in reading or photographing the slide. Jane thinks she can tweak the procedure to eliminate the paraffin spots. Jane's opinion on the procedure?? She will be bottling up all of the xylenes and alcohols and storing them away first thing tomorrow morning. This fixes a big problem for us because the histolab is on the first floor along with some offices.? We do our work under a fume hood and we are careful, but we? had an incident where students left containers of xylene uncapped outside the hood overnight in hot weather vaporizing a large amount of xylene into the hallway.? Not cool. We moved the tissue processor and autostainer to a remoter spot on the 4th floor but the water quality issues there made our autostainer a problem.? We can now bring our autostainer back and set it up for special and routine stains.? The procedure with detergent from beginning to end is significantly shorter than the xylene alcohols stain alcohols xylene procedure and we will dramatically reduce our consumption and waste output of xylene and our consumption of ethanol.? Very cool. Thanks EW Johnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing On 9/12/2012 3:13 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: EWayne: >All mounting media contains a so called "solvent". Permount contains toluene (not as nasty as xylene) and will "penetrate" the section provided it is absolutely dehydrated (in an oven in this case). >You just have to finish the HC (or IHC) protocol and pop-in the slides in the oven. >Balsam of Canada (the resin) is dissolved in xylene (always) so the "penetration" is also assured. >Under separate cover I am sending you my articles. >Try this method, you will love it! >Ren? J. > > >From: E. Wayne Johnson mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org >To: Rene J Buesa mailto:rjbuesa@yahoo.com >Cc: "Mayer,Toysha N" mailto:TNMayer@mdanderson.org; mailto:'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:14 PM >Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > >I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the >loss of some stains in dehydration. >I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven >dehydration.? I will see how it >works for me. > >I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much >hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as >not washing out some special stains.? I have tried some of the isopropyl >alcohol and acetone dehydration called for >in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides >could just be popped into the oven. > >What mounting medium are you using?? Does it matter?? I am a bit worried >about penetration of the mountant >into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue.? Will >neutral balsam still work ok? > >Rene:? if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating >xylene, I am interested.? Xylene is becoming >more and more of an issue and a pain for us. > >EWJohnson >Enruikang Ag Tech >Beijing. > > >On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: >> Toysha: >> Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: >> 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; >> 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; >> 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; >> 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60?C >> 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow >> 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. >> I think you should try the method instead. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "Mayer,Toysha N" >> To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than >> >> >> Ooh, great question for my students next semester. >> Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as? the solvent of the counterstain. >>? >> Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. >> >> There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. >> >> >> Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) >> Instructor, Education Coordinator >> Program in Histotechnology >> School of Health Professions >> MD Anderson Cancer Center >> (713) 563-3481 >> tnmayer@mdanderson.org >> >> >> >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 >> From: "Diana McCaig" >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >>? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear >> To: >> Message-ID: >>? ? ? >> Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset="us-ascii" >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Rene J Buesa >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >>? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear >> To: Diana McCaig, >>? ? ? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >>? ? ? >> Message-ID: >>? ? ? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Diana: >> The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". >> The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! >> As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). >> Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. >> The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. >> Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Diana McCaig >> To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >>? ? > > > > From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 09:46:03 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Wed Sep 12 09:46:12 2012 Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear In-Reply-To: <25A4DE08332B19499904459F00AAACB719BB4A1829@EVS1.archildrens.org> References: <25A4DE08332B19499904459F00AAACB719BB4A1829@EVS1.archildrens.org> Message-ID: <1347461163.86077.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hazel: The so called "drying artifact" that appears as a "darker granulation", like sand grains, is caused NOT by drying the sections, but by drying them incompletely. IF there is any remnant of water within or between the cells, that water will refract the light using to observe the sections and will appear as "dark granules". It is the same effect as when you observe rain falling?in the horizon: even when the water is transparent, you will see the falling rain as a darker film, almost black, also because of light refraction. If you completely eliminate the water, that artifact will not take place. Under separate cover I am sending something about this I published. By the way, I was taught the same when I started to study histology during my pre-medical studies in 1952 (so do not talk about age, I am for sure older than you are!). Keep your brain young, it does not matter if your body ages, your brain has to remain young! Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Horn, Hazel V" To: 'Amos Brooks' ; "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:57 AM Subject: RE: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I suppose my age will show here but I was always taught to NEVER let slides dry out unless the procedure indicated such.? Is there no drying artifact when you let these slide dry before coverslipping? Hazel Horn Supervisor of Histology/Autopsy/Transcription Anatomic Pathology Arkansas Children's Hospital 1 Children's Way | Slot 820| Little Rock, AR 72202 501.364.4240 direct | 501.364.1302 office | 501.364.1241 fax hornhv@archildrens.org archildrens.org 100 YEARS YOUNG! JOIN THE PARTY AT ach100.org -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Amos Brooks Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:31 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear Hi, ? ? My choice to air dry rather than dehydrate in ETOH & xylene is based on the stain rather than the spooky xylene hazard boogyman. Yes, not using xylene if it is not really needed is not a bad idea, but the main reason I air dry some stains is the alcohols remove some of the stains. Ever have a beautiful Luxol Fast Blue bleach out on you? The most exasperating thing in the world! ? ? Generally stains that end in water can easily be air dried. Something alcoholic like eosin or Movat's Pentachrome ending in alcoholic saffron might as well be finished traditionally. I air dry any stain that is counterstained in Nuclear Fast Red, Light Green, Methyl Green. I have air dried IHCs with no ill effects too. Don't try it with fluorescents though, that would be bad ... and pointless. ? ? I don't put them in an oven. I set them at the front of the fume hood and go do something else for a few minutes. If I want to rush it I close the sash to increase the flow rate for a bit. (Of course it is opened back up right after so the draft works properly.) Amos On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM, wrote: > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >? ? ? ? dehydrate? ? ? and clear > To: > Message-ID: >? ? ? ? > Content-Type: text/plain;? ? ? charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, > cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then > coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate > and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , > allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in > xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain > gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term > issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 10:13:21 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Wed Sep 12 10:13:29 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> <1347390820.99147.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <505092E3.60206@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <1347462801.1244.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> EWayne (et al): So, there you have it! He (or she) who still uses xylene in the histology lab is just because he (or she) has decided to do so! At this moment what you describe is standard procedure for several private labs in the US and the US Virgin Islands, Canada, Russia and Spain. Besides dewaxing with dishwasher soap and air drying before cover-slipping, you can also eliminate xylene from tissue processing by just following the instructions outlinedin the articles I sent. you. Try to contact as many colleagues as you can and "spread the word": xylene is out of our lives, as long as we want to. Thank you for the information Ren? J. ________________________________ From: E. Wayne Johnson To: Rene J Buesa Cc: "Mayer,Toysha N" ; "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Dishwashing machines are not at all common in China even in Beijing so we could not find dishwasher detergent nearby.?? But we took a bus and subway ride toward the city center to Zhongguancun (the computer district) and found a Carrefour's (Jia Le Fu ???) that had one brand of powdered detergent "Finish" (Reckett Benckiser). Finish was formerly called "Electrasol".? Actually I was a bit afraid of "Finish".? If I had known it was the same thing as the familiar Electrasol, I would not have had any concerns. Anyway, we took the Finish powder back to the lab where we had a covered water bath waiting at 90C. I mixed 40 grams in with 2L of tap water and we followed the protocol Rene' sent with some test tissues from some pigs we examined a few days ago (lung, liver, heart, spleen, kidney, gut). We heated the detergent solution on an induction stove and poured in into some square glass jars in the water bath. The procedure took the paraffin right off.? We did an H&E and dried the slide in the 60C oven after a water wash to clean up after Eosin.? Ver-r-ry nice result. Jane tried the technique then by herself with 3 more slides including one slide with some honking big pieces of pig cerebellum. The sections all stayed put on the slides.? Sometimes we can lose most of the cerebellum in processing, so we think it is a good demonstration that section loss is not going to be much of a problem. The stain was a Harris hematoxylin regressed with 1% HCl.? We blued some with tap water and some with Scott's.? I sort of prefer the plain tap water bluing. Our Eosin is an Eosin/Biebrich Scarlet (Acid Red 66)/Orange G that we make up.? We usually use a treatment in alcoholic Picric Acid to get rid of formalin pigment but we omitted that step today and the slides turned out well.? Indeed these pigs were a field necropsy and the formalin was simple 10% unbuffered formalin in plain local farm tap water, but there were only some traces of formalin pigment.? We are wondering if perhaps the detergent is taking out some of the formalin pigment for us. We got a few white paraffin spots on one slide but even that would not be an issue in reading or photographing the slide. Jane thinks she can tweak the procedure to eliminate the paraffin spots. Jane's opinion on the procedure?? She will be bottling up all of the xylenes and alcohols and storing them away first thing tomorrow morning. This fixes a big problem for us because the histolab is on the first floor along with some offices.? We do our work under a fume hood and we are careful, but we? had an incident where students left containers of xylene uncapped outside the hood overnight in hot weather vaporizing a large amount of xylene into the hallway.? Not cool. We moved the tissue processor and autostainer to a remoter spot on the 4th floor but the water quality issues there made our autostainer a problem.? We can now bring our autostainer back and set it up for special and routine stains.? The procedure with detergent from beginning to end is significantly shorter than the xylene alcohols stain alcohols xylene procedure and we will dramatically reduce our consumption and waste output of xylene and our consumption of ethanol.? Very cool. Thanks EW Johnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing On 9/12/2012 3:13 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: EWayne: >All mounting media contains a so called "solvent". Permount contains toluene (not as nasty as xylene) and will "penetrate" the section provided it is absolutely dehydrated (in an oven in this case). >You just have to finish the HC (or IHC) protocol and pop-in the slides in the oven. >Balsam of Canada (the resin) is dissolved in xylene (always) so the "penetration" is also assured. >Under separate cover I am sending you my articles. >Try this method, you will love it! >Ren? J. > > >From: E. Wayne Johnson mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org >To: Rene J Buesa mailto:rjbuesa@yahoo.com >Cc: "Mayer,Toysha N" mailto:TNMayer@mdanderson.org; mailto:'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:14 PM >Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > >I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the >loss of some stains in dehydration. >I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven >dehydration.? I will see how it >works for me. > >I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much >hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as >not washing out some special stains.? I have tried some of the isopropyl >alcohol and acetone dehydration called for >in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides >could just be popped into the oven. > >What mounting medium are you using?? Does it matter?? I am a bit worried >about penetration of the mountant >into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue.? Will >neutral balsam still work ok? > >Rene:? if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating >xylene, I am interested.? Xylene is becoming >more and more of an issue and a pain for us. > >EWJohnson >Enruikang Ag Tech >Beijing. > > >On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: >> Toysha: >> Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: >> 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; >> 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; >> 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; >> 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60?C >> 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow >> 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. >> I think you should try the method instead. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "Mayer,Toysha N" >> To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than >> >> >> Ooh, great question for my students next semester. >> Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as? the solvent of the counterstain. >>? >> Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. >> >> There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. >> >> >> Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) >> Instructor, Education Coordinator >> Program in Histotechnology >> School of Health Professions >> MD Anderson Cancer Center >> (713) 563-3481 >> tnmayer@mdanderson.org >> >> >> >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 >> From: "Diana McCaig" >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >>? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear >> To: >> Message-ID: >>? ? ? >> Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset="us-ascii" >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Rene J Buesa >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >>? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear >> To: Diana McCaig, >>? ? ? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >>? ? ? >> Message-ID: >>? ? ? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Diana: >> The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". >> The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! >> As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). >> Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. >> The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. >> Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Diana McCaig >> To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >>? ? > > > > From jamie.erickson <@t> abbott.com Wed Sep 12 10:21:05 2012 From: jamie.erickson <@t> abbott.com (Erickson, Jamie E) Date: Wed Sep 12 10:21:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cryosectioning question Message-ID: <8B946A68A8F3534A99CC493DEFB49B109E0681@WM10002P.oneabbott.com> Hi All, I have a question about cryopresevation/ sectioning. I have a study (mouse kidneys sample)that I need to re-section the cryoblocks but the intern that sectioned them first did not reseal them with OCT so they have now seperated from the OCT (dessicated). I can't get sections because of the tissue and OCT separate. Can I re-freeze them? If so how do I avoid thawing the sample. Has anyone run into this, if so what did you do. Also is there a good method for sectioning out there I want to improve my speed and quality of cryosections so I hope to adopt some new tricks. Do people like using a camel hair brush or the anti-roll plate, I use a brush.. Is there any good refference material I should look into... Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Jamie From Kim.Kolman <@t> va.gov Wed Sep 12 10:27:32 2012 From: Kim.Kolman <@t> va.gov (Kolman, Kimberly D.) Date: Wed Sep 12 10:28:41 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: dissecting pins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C32F30B6662D74A8419DDDB7E66656A0774AA48@VHAV15MSGA1.v15.med.va.gov> Thanks everyone for all the replies. I've been perusing the office supply websites but had not thought of sewing supplies - I'll check that out! It will be a challenge to find the items my docs here will adjust to, also to get Supply to order hypodermic needles for this use; I am fighting with them now to get them to order non-sterile 4x4 gauze. Some nice inspection person has insisted to them that all gauze must be sterile.........so now I can spend my time ripping open individual sterile 4x4 packs to have ready for coverslipping, cleaning the embedding center, etc.... nothing better to do with my time, I guess...! -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Richmond Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:51 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re: dissecting pins Kimberly D. Kolman, HT, (ASCP) at the VA center in Leavenworth KS asks: >>Does anyone know where I can find some large-head pins to use when >>pinning out large tissue specimens for fixation? We already use the >>large "T-pins" and the regular bulletin board push-pins are too small. >>We need something with a larger, easier to grip plastic head, and long >>(at least ? inch) pin shaft. - Thanks for your help (and hope it might >>be one of our 'contract vendors', or I won't be able to use them >>anyway... L)<< Go to any of the big stores that sell sewing supplies - they have innumerable varieties of pins - and pick out what you want. This is one of a number of items used in surgical grossing that you have to buy cheaply on the open market or scrounge, like hacksaws for cutting bone, plastic rulers, metal skewers - I have a whole kit bag of such items that I carry to my various jobs. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Maryville TN _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com Wed Sep 12 10:58:15 2012 From: amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com (Amos Brooks) Date: Wed Sep 12 10:58:24 2012 Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear In-Reply-To: <25A4DE08332B19499904459F00AAACB719BB4A1829@EVS1.archildrens.org> References: <25A4DE08332B19499904459F00AAACB719BB4A1829@EVS1.archildrens.org> Message-ID: Hazel, The only time I have seen any problem was when a stain was not fully washed off the slide. Once you put the slide in xylene and coverslip it the slide is just like any other. Amos On Sep 12, 2012 8:57 AM, "Horn, Hazel V" wrote: > I suppose my age will show here but I was always taught to NEVER let > slides dry out unless the procedure indicated such. Is there no drying > artifact when you let these slide dry before coverslipping? > > Hazel Horn > Supervisor of Histology/Autopsy/Transcription > Anatomic Pathology > Arkansas Children's Hospital > 1 Children's Way | Slot 820| Little Rock, AR 72202 > 501.364.4240 direct | 501.364.1302 office | 501.364.1241 fax > hornhv@archildrens.org > archildrens.org > > > > > 100 YEARS YOUNG! > JOIN THE PARTY AT > ach100.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto: > histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Amos Brooks > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:31 PM > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate > and clear > > Hi, > My choice to air dry rather than dehydrate in ETOH & xylene is based > on the stain rather than the spooky xylene hazard boogyman. Yes, not using > xylene if it is not really needed is not a bad idea, but the main reason I > air dry some stains is the alcohols remove some of the stains. Ever have a > beautiful Luxol Fast Blue bleach out on you? The most exasperating thing in > the world! > Generally stains that end in water can easily be air dried. Something > alcoholic like eosin or Movat's Pentachrome ending in alcoholic saffron > might as well be finished traditionally. I air dry any stain that is > counterstained in Nuclear Fast Red, Light Green, Methyl Green. I have air > dried IHCs with no ill effects too. Don't try it with fluorescents though, > that would be bad ... and pointless. > I don't put them in an oven. I set them at the front of the fume hood > and go do something else for a few minutes. If I want to rush it I close > the sash to increase the flow rate for a bit. (Of course it is opened back > up right after so the draft works properly.) Amos > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM, < > histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > wrote: > > > Message: 16 > > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > > From: "Diana McCaig" > > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > > dehydrate and clear > > To: > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, > > cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then > > coverslip. > > > > > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate > > and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , > > allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in > > xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain > > gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term > > issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > The information contained in this message may be privileged and > confidential > and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the > intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your > computer. > Thank you. > From Dorothy.L.Webb <@t> HealthPartners.Com Wed Sep 12 13:17:02 2012 From: Dorothy.L.Webb <@t> HealthPartners.Com (Webb, Dorothy L) Date: Wed Sep 12 13:17:07 2012 Subject: [Histonet] IHC lead Message-ID: <65365F35C0F2EF4D846EC3CA73E49C4301DAA5E1CC0E@HPEMX3.HealthPartners.int> What criteria does everyone use to hire for working in your IHC department? I am looking for feedback as to what qualifications are expected for IHC techs as well as qualifications and expectations of the "lead" in IHC. Also, what title do you have for the "lead" in IHC, technical specialist, coordinator, lead, etc??? Thanks ahead of time for your information! We are trying to reinvent the position and want to make it more like a community standard (community meaning the world of histology)!! ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sender immediately and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender. Disclaimer R001.0 From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 14:59:32 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Wed Sep 12 14:59:40 2012 Subject: [Histonet] IHC lead In-Reply-To: <65365F35C0F2EF4D846EC3CA73E49C4301DAA5E1CC0E@HPEMX3.HealthPartners.int> References: <65365F35C0F2EF4D846EC3CA73E49C4301DAA5E1CC0E@HPEMX3.HealthPartners.int> Message-ID: <1347479972.30506.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I always looked for a HTL (ASCP) certified and the title was Senior Histotechnologist Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Webb, Dorothy L" To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:17 PM Subject: [Histonet] IHC lead What criteria does everyone use to hire for working in your IHC department?? I am looking for feedback as to what qualifications are expected for IHC techs as well as qualifications and expectations of the "lead" in IHC.? Also, what title do you have for the "lead" in IHC, technical specialist, coordinator, lead, etc??? Thanks ahead of time for your information!? We are trying to reinvent the position and want to make it more like a community standard (community meaning the world of histology)!! ? ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sender immediately and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender. Disclaimer R001.0 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From tony.henwood <@t> health.nsw.gov.au Wed Sep 12 19:32:11 2012 From: tony.henwood <@t> health.nsw.gov.au (Tony Henwood (SCHN)) Date: Wed Sep 12 19:32:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6D6BD1DE8A5571489398B392A38A71579D1E982D@xmdb02.nch.kids> We have routinely dried slides prior to coverslipping. We have found that ethanol or acetone rinsing after staining shortens the drying time (in fact we have used acetone to dehydrate MGG and DiffQuik stained smears, which must be kept away from alcohols, prior to coverslipping). Our automatic coverslipper uses a very runny xylene based mountant so we do not need to rinse in xylene prior to coverslipping. One paper we did describes the detergent de-waxing aspect and a study currently in preparation applies the technique to fungal staining: Henwood A (2012) "The application of heated detergent dewaxing and rehydration to immunohistochemistry" Biotechnic & Histochemistry 87(1): 46-50. It will depend on the staining method used as to whether you can use alcohol, acetone or heat-assisted drying prior to coverslipping, but, dare I say, nearly all stains can be treated thus. Whoops, I forgot about the Oil Red O stains for fats, Oh well I did say "nearly all"!! Regards Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) Laboratory Manager & Senior Scientist Tel: 612 9845 3306 Fax: 612 9845 3318 the children's hospital at westmead Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mayer,Toysha N Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 1:42 AM To: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Ooh, great question for my students next semester. Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) Instructor, Education Coordinator Program in Histotechnology School of Health Professions MD Anderson Cancer Center (713) 563-3481 tnmayer@mdanderson.org Message: 16 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 From: "Diana McCaig" Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear To: Diana McCaig , "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diana: The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ********************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message and any attachments are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of The Children's Hospital at Westmead This note also confirms that this email message has been virus scanned and although no computer viruses were detected, The Childrens Hospital at Westmead accepts no liability for any consequential damage resulting from email containing computer viruses. ********************************************************************************* From tony.henwood <@t> health.nsw.gov.au Wed Sep 12 19:41:55 2012 From: tony.henwood <@t> health.nsw.gov.au (Tony Henwood (SCHN)) Date: Wed Sep 12 19:42:12 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <6D6BD1DE8A5571489398B392A38A71579D1E9889@xmdb02.nch.kids> Yep Regards Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) Laboratory Manager & Senior Scientist Tel: 612 9845 3306 Fax: 612 9845 3318 the children's hospital at westmead Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 3:23 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Would this work for auto cover slipping (tape film)if they were set in the xylene reservoir prior to cover slipping? Diana -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: September-11-12 1:15 PM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just > that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed > ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an > additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an > additional step at 60?C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ********************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message and any attachments are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of The Children's Hospital at Westmead This note also confirms that this email message has been virus scanned and although no computer viruses were detected, The Childrens Hospital at Westmead accepts no liability for any consequential damage resulting from email containing computer viruses. ********************************************************************************* From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Wed Sep 12 20:21:12 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 12 20:21:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <6D6BD1DE8A5571489398B392A38A71579D1E9889@xmdb02.nch.kids> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> <6D6BD1DE8A5571489398B392A38A71579D1E9889@xmdb02.nch.kids> Message-ID: <50513508.6030708@pigsqq.org> Interestingly, I showed the results to a couple of colleagues. One response was- "The sections will come off! The sections will come off! All that heat! The soap! The sections will come off! I don't think I even want to try That! I'm going to stick with Xylene and Alcohols." Another - " Oh, this method is /Very Unusual/. Maybe if the graduate students try to publish a scientific paper and say that they used this method, their papers will be *Rejected* *by the Reviewers*." "It's a published method. I have 2 published papers on it right here" "Oh, so they can cite those methods in their papers. Ok." * E. Wayne Johnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing On 9/13/2012 8:41 AM, Tony Henwood (SCHN) wrote: > Yep > > Regards > Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) > Laboratory Manager& Senior Scientist > Tel: 612 9845 3306 > Fax: 612 9845 3318 > the children's hospital at westmead > Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead > Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig > Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 3:23 AM > To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Mayer, Toysha N > Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > Would this work for auto cover slipping (tape film)if they were set in the xylene reservoir prior to cover slipping? > > Diana > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson > Sent: September-11-12 1:15 PM > To: Rene J Buesa > Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N > Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. > I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. > > I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. > > What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? > > Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. > > EWJohnson > Enruikang Ag Tech > Beijing. > > > On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > >> Toysha: >> Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: >> 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you >> point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; >> 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about >> 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the >> protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides >> in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just >> that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; >> 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their >> racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many >> slides you are working with; >> 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can >> affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed >> ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an >> additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an >> additional step at 60?C >> 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, >> they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step >> at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow >> 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. >> I think you should try the method instead. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "Mayer,Toysha N" >> To: >> "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'"> u> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than >> >> >> Ooh, great question for my students next semester. >> Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. >> >> Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. >> >> There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. >> >> >> Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) >> Instructor, Education Coordinator >> Program in Histotechnology >> School of Health Professions >> MD Anderson Cancer Center >> (713) 563-3481 >> tnmayer@mdanderson.org >> >> >> >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 >> From: "Diana McCaig" >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >> dehydrate and clear >> To: >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Rene J Buesa >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >> dehydrate and clear >> To: Diana McCaig, >> "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >> >> Message-ID: >> <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Diana: >> The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". >> The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! >> As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). >> Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. >> The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. >> Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Diana McCaig >> To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >> dehydrate and clear >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ********************************************************************************* > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. > > Views expressed in this message and any attachments are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of The Children's Hospital at Westmead > > This note also confirms that this email message has been virus scanned and although no computer viruses were detected, The Childrens Hospital at Westmead accepts no liability for any consequential damage resulting from email containing computer viruses. > ********************************************************************************* > From AHutton <@t> dh.org Thu Sep 13 09:49:33 2012 From: AHutton <@t> dh.org (Hutton, Allison) Date: Thu Sep 13 09:52:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting Message-ID: <38A56C4F4630D348A50B3720409270870E0FE641@dhmail.dhorg.org> We have been asked to look at changing our pathology reports over to the synoptic report format. I was wondering if anyone could provide me some information on voice recognition software for pathology and if this would be the best (easiest) way to implement synoptic reporting for our path reports. I am only vaguely familiar with both so any information will be of great use. Thank You in Advance Allison From chapcl <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 11:04:33 2012 From: chapcl <@t> yahoo.com (William Chappell) Date: Thu Sep 13 11:04:37 2012 Subject: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting In-Reply-To: <38A56C4F4630D348A50B3720409270870E0FE641@dhmail.dhorg.org> References: <38A56C4F4630D348A50B3720409270870E0FE641@dhmail.dhorg.org> Message-ID: <567D34AE-75D2-46C5-BDC0-8D2BA9E1EDA1@yahoo.com> Voice Brook seems to be the market leader. They are powered by Nuance and Dragon which are the market leaders in the consumer market. However, they are pricy. Nuance offers a service that is more similar to a remote transcription service, however my guess is they rely heavily on their automated transcription software, without the cost of purchasing the software itself. If your IT department wants to dedicate 1 or 2 FTE's to getting you up and running, a cheaper solution is to purchase the Dragon backbone from Nuance, however it will take al ot of customization to make it on par with VoiceBrook. Just my opinion. Will Chappell CHOC Children's AP Supervisor On Sep 13, 2012, at 7:49 AM, "Hutton, Allison" wrote: > We have been asked to look at changing our pathology reports over to the synoptic report format. I was wondering if anyone could provide me some information on voice recognition software for pathology and if this would be the best (easiest) way to implement synoptic reporting for our path reports. I am only vaguely familiar with both so any information will be of great use. > Thank You in Advance > Allison > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From mike <@t> pathview.com Thu Sep 13 11:41:03 2012 From: mike <@t> pathview.com (Michael Mihalik) Date: Thu Sep 13 11:41:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting In-Reply-To: <38A56C4F4630D348A50B3720409270870E0FE641@dhmail.dhorg.org> References: <38A56C4F4630D348A50B3720409270870E0FE641@dhmail.dhorg.org> Message-ID: <00e901cd91ce$919230e0$b4b692a0$@pathview.com> Allison, it starts with what your objectives are: If you simply want your reports to present information in a certain format, then a word processor, optionally coupled with Dragon and optionally coupled with Voicebrook will work. If you need to send the data in it's individual components to another computer system, then that's an entirely different story as it probably means that you need to store the data discretely. Either way, if you'd like to talk about it further please feel free to contact me offline. Remember that I represent an LIS vendor, but since I love talking about this stuff, I have no problem talking to you about it from a non sales perspective. Michael Mihalik PathView Systems |?cell: 214.733.7688?| 800.798.3540 | fax: 952.241.7369 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hutton, Allison Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:50 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting We have been asked to look at changing our pathology reports over to the synoptic report format. I was wondering if anyone could provide me some information on voice recognition software for pathology and if this would be the best (easiest) way to implement synoptic reporting for our path reports. I am only vaguely familiar with both so any information will be of great use. Thank You in Advance Allison _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From cathy.crumpton <@t> tuality.org Thu Sep 13 11:58:40 2012 From: cathy.crumpton <@t> tuality.org (Cathy Crumpton) Date: Thu Sep 13 11:58:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types Message-ID: For those with the Sakura Glas coverslippers, what type of mounting media are you using in these? Sakura recommends only their brand of course, but I want something that dries faster. We do not have excess mounting media on the outside of our slides, but after being in the oven for three days we had several slides sticking. It looked like the mounting media slipped down the slide to pool at the bottom and stick. I am thinking their media is too viscous. If I turn the amount down on the machine any further we end up with not enough media on the slides and get large air pockets after just a few days of storage. BTW the oven is at 40 degrees and isn't boiling hot to dry the slides. Cathy Crumpton HT(ASCP), Lead Histotechnician Tuality Community Hospital 503-681-1292 From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 12:07:20 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Thu Sep 13 12:07:27 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347556040.91097.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Try using "Clearmount" Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Cathy Crumpton To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:58 PM Subject: [Histonet] Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types For those with the Sakura Glas coverslippers, what type of mounting media are you using in these?? Sakura recommends only their brand of course, but I want something that dries faster.? We do not have excess mounting media on the outside of our slides, but after being in the oven for three days we had several slides sticking.? It looked like the mounting media slipped down the slide to pool at the bottom and stick.? I am thinking their media is too viscous.? If I turn the amount down on the machine any further we end up with not enough media on the slides and get large air pockets after just a few days of storage.? BTW the oven is at 40 degrees and isn't boiling hot to dry the slides. Cathy Crumpton HT(ASCP), Lead Histotechnician Tuality Community Hospital 503-681-1292 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From SDattili <@t> stormontvail.org Thu Sep 13 12:14:12 2012 From: SDattili <@t> stormontvail.org (D'Attilio, Shelley) Date: Thu Sep 13 12:14:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <82735c47000c6e51@stormontvail.org> Message-ID: Hi all, The Histonet is a great tool for learning and collaboration. It's utility, however, is decreased when one must plow through multiple copies of the same post to find a shiny new nugget of information. Before you hit "Reply" and then "Send", take a few seconds to delete all the stuff under your reply. Everyone who receives the digest form of the Histonet listserv will thank you! This is especially important if you are replying after receiving a digest. Thanks, Shelley D'Attilio MT(ASCP) Manager, Chemistry, Cytology and Histology Dept. of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine Stormont-Vail HealthCare Topeka, Kansas NEED A DOCTOR? Stormont-Vail's Health Connections can help you find a doctor accepting new patients. Call (785) 354-5225. ****************************************************************************************************************** The information transmitted in this e-mail and in any replies and forwards are for the sole use of the above individual(s) or entities and may contain proprietary, privileged and/or highly confidential information. Any unauthorized dissemination, review, distribution or copying of these communications is strictly prohibited. If this e-mail has been transmitted to you in error, please notify and return the original message to the sender immediately at the above listed address. Thank you for your cooperation. ****************************************************************************************************************** From campbellj <@t> muhlbauerlab.com Thu Sep 13 12:17:19 2012 From: campbellj <@t> muhlbauerlab.com (Jennifer Campbell) Date: Thu Sep 13 12:17:24 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ClearMount from American MasterTech. Speed and volume set to "3". We put our slides overnight in 60 degree oven prior to filing. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Cathy Crumpton wrote: > For those with the Sakura Glas coverslippers, what type of mounting media > are you using in these? Sakura recommends only their brand of course, but > I want something that dries faster. We do not have excess mounting media > on the outside of our slides, but after being in the oven for three days we > had several slides sticking. It looked like the mounting media slipped > down the slide to pool at the bottom and stick. I am thinking their media > is too viscous. If I turn the amount down on the machine any further we > end up with not enough media on the slides and get large air pockets after > just a few days of storage. BTW the oven is at 40 degrees and isn't > boiling hot to dry the slides. > > > > Cathy Crumpton HT(ASCP), Lead Histotechnician > > Tuality Community Hospital > > 503-681-1292 > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > -- Jen Campbell, HT(ASCP) Supervisor of Technical Services Muhlbauer Dermatopathology Laboratory 61 Monroe Avenue, Ste B Pittsford NY 14534 P: 585.586.5166 F: 585.586.3137 IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential or sensitive information which is, or may be, legally privileged or otherwise protected by law from further disclosure. It is intended only for the addressee. If you received this in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, please do not distribute, copy or use it or any attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. From Ashley.Troutman <@t> Vanderbilt.Edu Thu Sep 13 12:17:14 2012 From: Ashley.Troutman <@t> Vanderbilt.Edu (Troutman, Kenneth A) Date: Thu Sep 13 12:18:01 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: IHC Lead Message-ID: Hello Dorothy, Here we require HT or HTL certification for IHC positions. I look for individuals that want to learn and have a desire to do IHC. I prefer folks with experience, but since experienced techs are hard to pry away from other employers, I am willing to train the right people. I encourage all of my techs to study and take the QIHC so that each IHC tech is knowledgeable and credible in their profession and be able to speak intelligently to our faculty and residents regarding any aspect of our operation. As for titles, we don't really have a "lead" here (for IHC specifically), but we have created a "Technical Specialist" that is part of the career ladder pathway that all of our clinical labs are creating for techs (Med Techs and Histotechs). To qualify for that position you must demonstrate considerable technical skill as well as the ability to train/mentor others. It also requires that you can make sound decisions regarding workflow issues (basically be the "go-to" person for problems and questions should the supervisor not be available.) Since our histology and IHC labs are not physically separated, IHC techs must also occasionally do routine work (cut H&Es, perhaps a special stain now and then). So they must also be technically sound in all areas of histology, not just IHC. I hope that helps. Ashley Troutman BS, HT(ASCP) QIHC Immunohistochemistry Supervisor Vanderbilt University Histopathology 1301 Medical Center Drive TVC 4531 Nashville, TN 37232 ashley.troutman@vanderbilt.edu From: "Webb, Dorothy L" > To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:17 PM Subject: [Histonet] IHC lead What criteria does everyone use to hire for working in your IHC department?? I am looking for feedback as to what qualifications are expected for IHC techs as well as qualifications and expectations of the "lead" in IHC.? Also, what title do you have for the "lead" in IHC, technical specialist, coordinator, lead, etc??? Thanks ahead of time for your information!? We are trying to reinvent the position and want to make it more like a community standard (community meaning the world of histology)!! From michelle.broome <@t> novartis.com Thu Sep 13 12:24:38 2012 From: michelle.broome <@t> novartis.com (Broome, Michelle) Date: Thu Sep 13 12:24:54 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Looking for an IHC expert! In-Reply-To: <201209131702.q8DH2FFW000350@ch2ssaenov01.novartis.com> References: <201209131702.q8DH2FFW000350@ch2ssaenov01.novartis.com> Message-ID: <374CBBBFF79001409E803CB8388D0FEE2DC09A@023-CH1MPN1-021.023d.mgd.msft.net> Hello Histonetters! Our preclinical lab is seeking an experienced IHC technician for an open position located in Cambridge, MA. Please email your resume to me directly if you are interested! Scientist I to assist Novartis researchers with coordination and performance of pathology related projects and training of personnel as necessary. Specific activities include performing (with minimal or no supervision) routine and specialized necropsy (e.g. blood and bone marrow smear preparation, whole body perfusion, dissection of tissue and organ subsites, recognition and preservation of gross lesions, tissue collection for RNA/DNA and protein analysis, timed tissue collection, etc.); histology activities such as trimming, tissue processing, embedding, and microtomy, including cryotomy of frozen tissues. Expertise in routine and special staining techniques, immunohistochemistry, in-situ hybridization, and preparation of tissues and slides for electron microscopy are mandatory skills for this position. Other activities include assisting with quality control and archiving activities, maintenance of inventory of core laboratory supplies, and utilization of slide scanning equipment and image analysis software. The Scientist I will collect, verify and maintain study data and measurements, communicate results in an accurate and timely manner; will develop and validate new methodologies and validate laboratory instrumentation as needed. Leadership skills for training and instructing technicians or scientists in day-to-day operations and laboratory scheduling and resource allocation will be required. Scientist I will display high level of competence in use of all laboratory equipment necessary to perform tasks as described above and to perform maintenance and troubleshooting when required. Minimum requirements: * HT certification or equivalent, or AS/AAS degree with 4-6 years experience, or Bachelor's degree + 8, or Masters + 6 years experience. * Documented ability to be self-motivated while making strong team-oriented contributions. * Strong personal and team-oriented time management skills * Computer skills in Microsoft windows-based office software. * Demonstrated experience in the required area, and competency in all technical procedures * Demonstrated understanding of relevant scientific and technical aspects * Ability to supervise other scientists when necessary. Preferred qualifications: * HT or HTL certification * Ventana expertise Michelle Broome, MBA, HTL(ASCP) Laboratory Manager PCS Discovery and Investigative Pathology Novartis Institutes for BioMedical Research, Inc. 100 Technology Square 611-7104A Cambridge, MA 02139 USA Phone +1 617 8717477 Fax +1 617 8714931 michelle.broome@novartis.com -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:02 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 15 Send Histonet mailing list submissions to histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu You can reach the person managing the list at histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Histonet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. IHC lead (Webb, Dorothy L) 2. Re: IHC lead (Rene J Buesa) 3. RE: air drying special stain slides rather than (Tony Henwood (SCHN)) 4. RE: RE: air drying special stain slides rather than (Tony Henwood (SCHN)) 5. Re: RE: air drying special stain slides rather than (E. Wayne Johnson) 6. voice recognition and synoptic reporting (Hutton, Allison) 7. Re: voice recognition and synoptic reporting (William Chappell) 8. RE: voice recognition and synoptic reporting (Michael Mihalik) 9. Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types (Cathy Crumpton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:17:02 -0500 From: "Webb, Dorothy L" Subject: [Histonet] IHC lead To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Message-ID: <65365F35C0F2EF4D846EC3CA73E49C4301DAA5E1CC0E@HPEMX3.HealthPartners.int> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What criteria does everyone use to hire for working in your IHC department? I am looking for feedback as to what qualifications are expected for IHC techs as well as qualifications and expectations of the "lead" in IHC. Also, what title do you have for the "lead" in IHC, technical specialist, coordinator, lead, etc??? Thanks ahead of time for your information! We are trying to reinvent the position and want to make it more like a community standard (community meaning the world of histology)!! ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sender immediately and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender. Disclaimer R001.0 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] IHC lead To: "Webb, Dorothy L" , "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Message-ID: <1347479972.30506.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I always looked for a HTL (ASCP) certified and the title was Senior Histotechnologist Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Webb, Dorothy L" To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:17 PM Subject: [Histonet] IHC lead What criteria does everyone use to hire for working in your IHC department?? I am looking for feedback as to what qualifications are expected for IHC techs as well as qualifications and expectations of the "lead" in IHC.? Also, what title do you have for the "lead" in IHC, technical specialist, coordinator, lead, etc??? Thanks ahead of time for your information!? We are trying to reinvent the position and want to make it more like a community standard (community meaning the world of histology)!! ? ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sender immediately and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender. Disclaimer R001.0 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:32:11 +0000 From: "Tony Henwood (SCHN)" Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than To: "'Mayer,Toysha N'" , "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Message-ID: <6D6BD1DE8A5571489398B392A38A71579D1E982D@xmdb02.nch.kids> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We have routinely dried slides prior to coverslipping. We have found that ethanol or acetone rinsing after staining shortens the drying time (in fact we have used acetone to dehydrate MGG and DiffQuik stained smears, which must be kept away from alcohols, prior to coverslipping). Our automatic coverslipper uses a very runny xylene based mountant so we do not need to rinse in xylene prior to coverslipping. One paper we did describes the detergent de-waxing aspect and a study currently in preparation applies the technique to fungal staining: Henwood A (2012) "The application of heated detergent dewaxing and rehydration to immunohistochemistry" Biotechnic & Histochemistry 87(1): 46-50. It will depend on the staining method used as to whether you can use alcohol, acetone or heat-assisted drying prior to coverslipping, but, dare I say, nearly all stains can be treated thus. Whoops, I forgot about the Oil Red O stains for fats, Oh well I did say "nearly all"!! Regards Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) Laboratory Manager & Senior Scientist Tel: 612 9845 3306 Fax: 612 9845 3318 the children's hospital at westmead Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mayer,Toysha N Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 1:42 AM To: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Ooh, great question for my students next semester. Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) Instructor, Education Coordinator Program in Histotechnology School of Health Professions MD Anderson Cancer Center (713) 563-3481 tnmayer@mdanderson.org Message: 16 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 From: "Diana McCaig" Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear To: Diana McCaig , "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diana: The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Diana McCaig To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ********************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message and any attachments are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of The Children's Hospital at Westmead This note also confirms that this email message has been virus scanned and although no computer viruses were detected, The Childrens Hospital at Westmead accepts no liability for any consequential damage resulting from email containing computer viruses. ********************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:41:55 +0000 From: "Tony Henwood (SCHN)" Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than To: "'Diana McCaig'" , "E. Wayne Johnson" , Rene J Buesa Cc: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" , "Mayer, Toysha N" Message-ID: <6D6BD1DE8A5571489398B392A38A71579D1E9889@xmdb02.nch.kids> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yep Regards Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) Laboratory Manager & Senior Scientist Tel: 612 9845 3306 Fax: 612 9845 3318 the children's hospital at westmead Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead Locked Bag 4001, Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 3:23 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Would this work for auto cover slipping (tape film)if they were set in the xylene reservoir prior to cover slipping? Diana -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: September-11-12 1:15 PM To: Rene J Buesa Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. EWJohnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing. On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > Toysha: > Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: > 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you > point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; > 2- if you dehydrate ??? clear the stained sections that will take > about > 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the > protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides > in their rack are placed in an oven at 60??C for 5 minutes it will > just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining > procedure; > 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their > racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many > slides you are working with; > 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can > affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ??? > processed ??? dried (usually at the same 60??C before staining) ??? > stained and an additional step at 60??C to dry before cover-slipping > is just that, an additional step at 60??C > 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, > they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step > at 60??C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow > 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. > I think you should try the method instead. > Ren?? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mayer,Toysha N" > To: > "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" u> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM > Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > > > Ooh, great question for my students next semester. > Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. > > Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. > > There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. > > > Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) > Instructor, Education Coordinator > Program in Histotechnology > School of Health Professions > MD Anderson Cancer Center > (713) 563-3481 > tnmayer@mdanderson.org > > > > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 > From: "Diana McCaig" > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > To: Diana McCaig, > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Diana: > The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". > The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! > As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). > Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. > The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. > Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. > Ren? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Diana McCaig > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than > dehydrate and clear > > I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. > > > > Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. > > > > I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. > > > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ********************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message and any attachments are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of The Children's Hospital at Westmead This note also confirms that this email message has been virus scanned and although no computer viruses were detected, The Childrens Hospital at Westmead accepts no liability for any consequential damage resulting from email containing computer viruses. ********************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:21:12 +0800 From: "E. Wayne Johnson" Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than To: "Tony Henwood (SCHN)" Cc: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" , 'Diana McCaig' , "Mayer, Toysha N" Message-ID: <50513508.6030708@pigsqq.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Interestingly, I showed the results to a couple of colleagues. One response was- "The sections will come off! The sections will come off! All that heat! The soap! The sections will come off! I don't think I even want to try That! I'm going to stick with Xylene and Alcohols." Another - " Oh, this method is /Very Unusual/. Maybe if the graduate students try to publish a scientific paper and say that they used this method, their papers will be *Rejected* *by the Reviewers*." "It's a published method. I have 2 published papers on it right here" "Oh, so they can cite those methods in their papers. Ok." * E. Wayne Johnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing On 9/13/2012 8:41 AM, Tony Henwood (SCHN) wrote: > Yep > > Regards > Tony Henwood JP, MSc, BAppSc, GradDipSysAnalys, CT(ASC), FFSc(RCPA) > Laboratory Manager& Senior Scientist > Tel: 612 9845 3306 > Fax: 612 9845 3318 > the children's hospital at westmead > Cnr Hawkesbury Road and Hainsworth Street, Westmead Locked Bag 4001, > Westmead NSW 2145, AUSTRALIA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana > McCaig > Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 3:23 AM > To: E. Wayne Johnson; Rene J Buesa > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Mayer, Toysha N > Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather > than > > Would this work for auto cover slipping (tape film)if they were set in the xylene reservoir prior to cover slipping? > > Diana > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. > Wayne Johnson > Sent: September-11-12 1:15 PM > To: Rene J Buesa > Cc: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'; Mayer, Toysha N > Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather > than > > I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the loss of some stains in dehydration. > I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven dehydration. I will see how it works for me. > > I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as not washing out some special stains. I have tried some of the isopropyl alcohol and acetone dehydration called for in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides could just be popped into the oven. > > What mounting medium are you using? Does it matter? I am a bit worried about penetration of the mountant into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue. Will neutral balsam still work ok? > > Rene: if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating xylene, I am interested. Xylene is becoming more and more of an issue and a pain for us. > > EWJohnson > Enruikang Ag Tech > Beijing. > > > On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: > >> Toysha: >> Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: >> 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you >> point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; >> 2- if you dehydrate ??? clear the stained sections that will take >> about >> 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on >> the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of >> slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60??C for 5 minutes it >> will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining >> procedure; >> 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their >> racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many >> slides you are working with; >> 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can >> affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ??? >> processed ??? dried (usually at the same 60??C before staining) ??? >> stained and an additional step at 60??C to dry before cover-slipping >> is just that, an additional step at 60??C >> 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, >> they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying >> step at 60??C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow >> 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. >> I think you should try the method instead. >> Ren?? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "Mayer,Toysha N" >> To: >> "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'"> d >> u> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than >> >> >> Ooh, great question for my students next semester. >> Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as the solvent of the counterstain. >> >> Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved. The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen. 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5. Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. >> >> There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. >> >> >> Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) >> Instructor, Education Coordinator >> Program in Histotechnology >> School of Health Professions >> MD Anderson Cancer Center >> (713) 563-3481 >> tnmayer@mdanderson.org >> >> >> >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 >> From: "Diana McCaig" >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >> dehydrate and clear >> To: >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping. Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out. Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Rene J Buesa >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >> dehydrate and clear >> To: Diana McCaig, >> "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >> >> Message-ID: >> <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Diana: >> The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". >> The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! >> As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). >> Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. >> The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. >> Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Diana McCaig >> To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >> dehydrate and clear >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ********************************************************************** > *********** This email and any files transmitted with it are > confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. > > Views expressed in this message and any attachments are those of the > individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of The Children's > Hospital at Westmead > > This note also confirms that this email message has been virus scanned and although no computer viruses were detected, The Childrens Hospital at Westmead accepts no liability for any consequential damage resulting from email containing computer viruses. > ********************************************************************** > *********** > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:49:33 -0400 From: "Hutton, Allison" Subject: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting To: Message-ID: <38A56C4F4630D348A50B3720409270870E0FE641@dhmail.dhorg.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have been asked to look at changing our pathology reports over to the synoptic report format. I was wondering if anyone could provide me some information on voice recognition software for pathology and if this would be the best (easiest) way to implement synoptic reporting for our path reports. I am only vaguely familiar with both so any information will be of great use. Thank You in Advance Allison ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:04:33 -0700 From: William Chappell Subject: Re: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting To: "Hutton, Allison" Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: <567D34AE-75D2-46C5-BDC0-8D2BA9E1EDA1@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Voice Brook seems to be the market leader. They are powered by Nuance and Dragon which are the market leaders in the consumer market. However, they are pricy. Nuance offers a service that is more similar to a remote transcription service, however my guess is they rely heavily on their automated transcription software, without the cost of purchasing the software itself. If your IT department wants to dedicate 1 or 2 FTE's to getting you up and running, a cheaper solution is to purchase the Dragon backbone from Nuance, however it will take al ot of customization to make it on par with VoiceBrook. Just my opinion. Will Chappell CHOC Children's AP Supervisor On Sep 13, 2012, at 7:49 AM, "Hutton, Allison" wrote: > We have been asked to look at changing our pathology reports over to the synoptic report format. I was wondering if anyone could provide me some information on voice recognition software for pathology and if this would be the best (easiest) way to implement synoptic reporting for our path reports. I am only vaguely familiar with both so any information will be of great use. > Thank You in Advance > Allison > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:41:03 -0400 From: "Michael Mihalik" Subject: RE: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting To: "'Hutton, Allison'" , Message-ID: <00e901cd91ce$919230e0$b4b692a0$@pathview.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Allison, it starts with what your objectives are: If you simply want your reports to present information in a certain format, then a word processor, optionally coupled with Dragon and optionally coupled with Voicebrook will work. If you need to send the data in it's individual components to another computer system, then that's an entirely different story as it probably means that you need to store the data discretely. Either way, if you'd like to talk about it further please feel free to contact me offline. Remember that I represent an LIS vendor, but since I love talking about this stuff, I have no problem talking to you about it from a non sales perspective. Michael Mihalik PathView Systems |?cell: 214.733.7688?| 800.798.3540 | fax: 952.241.7369 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hutton, Allison Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:50 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] voice recognition and synoptic reporting We have been asked to look at changing our pathology reports over to the synoptic report format. I was wondering if anyone could provide me some information on voice recognition software for pathology and if this would be the best (easiest) way to implement synoptic reporting for our path reports. I am only vaguely familiar with both so any information will be of great use. Thank You in Advance Allison _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 16:58:40 +0000 From: Cathy Crumpton Subject: [Histonet] Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For those with the Sakura Glas coverslippers, what type of mounting media are you using in these? Sakura recommends only their brand of course, but I want something that dries faster. We do not have excess mounting media on the outside of our slides, but after being in the oven for three days we had several slides sticking. It looked like the mounting media slipped down the slide to pool at the bottom and stick. I am thinking their media is too viscous. If I turn the amount down on the machine any further we end up with not enough media on the slides and get large air pockets after just a few days of storage. BTW the oven is at 40 degrees and isn't boiling hot to dry the slides. Cathy Crumpton HT(ASCP), Lead Histotechnician Tuality Community Hospital 503-681-1292 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 15 ***************************************** From TJohnson <@t> gnf.org Thu Sep 13 12:28:05 2012 From: TJohnson <@t> gnf.org (Teri Johnson) Date: Thu Sep 13 12:28:11 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: IHC lead Message-ID: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD7F1B@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Hi Dorothy, Take a quick look at the NSH website for job listings and maybe another career's website like Simplyhired.com or Monster and get some idea as to how the jobs for IHC lead techs are listed. The problem with making absolute requirements (BS, HTL, QIHC, etc) is there are a set of experienced techs who do not have these degrees or certifications who are highly qualified for the position and would face elimination from consideration based on that alone. You can list it as highly desirable instead of a requirement. Teri Johnson, HT(ASCP)QIHC GNF Histology Lab Manager Genomics Institute of the Novartis Research Foundation 858-332-4752 From micropathlabs <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 12:56:25 2012 From: micropathlabs <@t> yahoo.com (Sheila Haas) Date: Thu Sep 13 12:56:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Slide Scanner/Imaging System Message-ID: <1347558985.83392.YahooMailNeo@web122003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am looking for information on whole slide imaging systems that are relatively small. A desktop version that would scan 1-4 slides at a time would be sufficient and the images would need to be viewed via a secure web location. I know there are several systems out there but am looking for recommendations from those already in use. Any information you could provide would be helpful. Thank you, Sheila Haas Laboratory Manager MicroPath Laboratories, Inc. From transparentlabconsulting <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 13 13:01:26 2012 From: transparentlabconsulting <@t> gmail.com (Lab Girl) Date: Thu Sep 13 13:01:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Lab Consultants Message-ID: Hello Histonetters Please be very careful who or what consultancies you choose to hire for your lab build. I know most of you are lab saavy enough to recognize that. There are AP lab consultancies in the lab "space" which in my opinion are very dishonest and potentially hazardous to the long-term well-being of your lab, practice, and medical license or lab technologist career. When you hire a lab consultant, a few things are critical so that you avoid major problems: 1) Obtain legally-binding documentation that the consultants are *not making $* from any capital equipment companies (Lab equipment companies), reagent distributors, or any other suppliers or service providers that the consultants recommend or use to build or design your lab space and its workflow, facilities, and services. Make certain to include in your agreements language which makes the consultancy and its owners and managers liable for monetary damages if it is discovered that it breaks its agreement to avoid engaging in such activities. There are lab consultancies that make verbal and written, even contractual, "promises" that they do not make money from kickbacks or outside arrangments, but believe me....some of these Companies and their principals...*DO.* 2) Obtain legal verification that the company you are hiring or its consultants or principals are not making money anyway by simply having an association with another business or individual (such as owning another mirror consultancy or their own consultancy")who filters such kickbacks through another entity (themselves)and then pays the consultants(themselves) on the back end anyway. Example: Lab Consultancy#1 recommends, obtains purchase approval for, and then builds and equips a lab for a Physician group with ACME lab company equipment, reagents, and other systems. The approvals for the equipment are then passed through or somehow associated with another company, entity, or person #2 that/who is then credited for the sale of the equipment by the ACME lab company and paid a commission or a kickback of some sort. On paper, it appears that the Consultants building the lab are not making any $, but they actually DO, just through a private exchange or a different company name. 3) Obtain protective contractual language from your capital equipment manufacturer and any other lab suppliers or service providers involved in your lab setup and operation. First and foremost, make as a part of any business agreement or purchase of materials or equipment, an instrument of legal language whereby the manufacturer or lab company also legally warrants that* no* outside consultancy, entity, business, or commercial organization will receive monetary or other monetarily valuable incentives or remunerations for setting up a physicians' in doctors' office anatomic pathology laboratory with their equipment or services. *4) I saw this happen. Dont let it happen to you or your lab.* 5) Watch out...if you discover that someone or some company is dishonest and/or incompetent, there is a reasonablly good chance that when you "send them packing" they will call in a CLIA Complaint of some sort and make your life and lab a mess. 6) The US government leadership (i.e. CMS/ HHS) in my opinion does not protect people when shady business dealings eventuate in one or more dishonest parties using the CLIA Complaint Process to "try to profit or "get back at" a a person or a company. We all know that complaint surveys are often called in or submitted in order to create Qui Tam cases for profit and/or to generally get back at employers or business partnerships that go awry. HHS officials working in CMS have verbally confirmed that they understand this goes on. They are obviously obligated to investigate, however if you feel someone has targeted you and that the complaint is due to their attempt at financial gain based on illegal activity, call the HHS Inspector General. Very soon the IG will be receiving detailed information about these scenarios and will be investigating them. 7) It is important to remember that some of the big lab companies engage in relationships in which they profit from paying a middle man consultant of one kind or another for getting them leads and a foot in the door. THis is also how you end up with the wrong equipment or workflow problems in your lab...or wondering why your entire lab is at the mercy of one company and its proprietary pricing and its competency or lack thereof at servicing your equipment. 8) Someone once said that "laboratory technologists do not know how to set up AP labs, purchase or select equipment, or successfully take a new lab through a CLIA inspection." Is that what you all believe? I dont. A lab consultancy ruined my long career as a lab tech. Watch out for who you choose. Choose a good one. Keep them honest. If you don't, you may learn the hard way that the best "lab consultants" are the caring and dedicated technologists and pathologists that end up having to run the operation....that breathe xylene and formalin all day long for years...that cut themeselves on microtome blades...that arrive in the mornings to beeping processors and error codes that make the days' work even harder. You are the dedicated acolytes of the profession Listen to the physicians. They are the reason you are there. Their patients are your duty as well as theirs. Trust the priestly guidance and management of the physicians, not the money-making business consultants and big equipment companies. Best of luck to all. Lab Girl From pruegg <@t> ihctech.net Thu Sep 13 13:05:51 2012 From: pruegg <@t> ihctech.net (Patsy Ruegg) Date: Thu Sep 13 13:05:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] cell membrane Message-ID: <8BBE1CE425F5461BA90124A2F0388182@DESKTOP3> Dear Histochemist, Does anyone know of a stain or histochemical reaction which will exclusively stain cell membrane and no other parts of the cell or other tissue components? Best regards, Patsy Patsy Ruegg, HT(ASCP)QIHC Director of Histology and IHC IHCtech a subsidiary of Flagship Bio-Sciences, LLC Fitzsimmons BioScience Park 12635 Montview Blvd. Suite 215 Aurora, CO 80045 P-720-859-4060 F-720-859-4110 email pruegg@ihctech.net & email pruegg@flagshipbio.com web site www.ihctech.net From JMacDonald <@t> mtsac.edu Thu Sep 13 13:08:23 2012 From: JMacDonald <@t> mtsac.edu (Jennifer MacDonald) Date: Thu Sep 13 13:08:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: we use Permount Cathy Crumpton Sent by: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 09/13/2012 10:00 AM To "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" cc Subject [Histonet] Sakura glas coverslipper and mounting media types For those with the Sakura Glas coverslippers, what type of mounting media are you using in these? Sakura recommends only their brand of course, but I want something that dries faster. We do not have excess mounting media on the outside of our slides, but after being in the oven for three days we had several slides sticking. It looked like the mounting media slipped down the slide to pool at the bottom and stick. I am thinking their media is too viscous. If I turn the amount down on the machine any further we end up with not enough media on the slides and get large air pockets after just a few days of storage. BTW the oven is at 40 degrees and isn't boiling hot to dry the slides. Cathy Crumpton HT(ASCP), Lead Histotechnician Tuality Community Hospital 503-681-1292 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From liz <@t> premierlab.com Thu Sep 13 13:22:47 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Thu Sep 13 13:22:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Slide Scanner/Imaging System In-Reply-To: <1347558985.83392.YahooMailNeo@web122003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE5C@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Aperio used to have a couple small scanners one that was for education, I think it scanned 1 slide at a time and the CS which scanned 5 slides at a time. With Aperio you can get the Spectrum or Spectrum Plus data base which you can set up so people can view securely and remotely. We have had the Aperio ScanScope CS previously and we now have the XT, just not certain if they still make the CS, maybe someone from Aperio can comment. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sheila Haas Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:56 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Slide Scanner/Imaging System I am looking for information on whole slide imaging systems that are relatively small. A desktop version that would scan 1-4 slides at a time would be sufficient and the images would need to be viewed via a secure web location. I know there are several systems out there but am looking for recommendations from those already in use. Any information you could provide would be helpful. Thank you, Sheila Haas Laboratory Manager MicroPath Laboratories, Inc. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 13 13:44:24 2012 From: jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com (Jay Lundgren) Date: Thu Sep 13 13:44:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Lab Consultants In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I heartily concur. I have had dealings in the past with Acme lab company, and their rocket- powered roller skates did NOT reduce our TAT as they initially claimed. We still have dozens of anvils, which they recommended we purchase, cluttering up the lab. Sincerely? Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) From mbmphoto <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 13 13:49:28 2012 From: mbmphoto <@t> gmail.com (Maria Mejia) Date: Thu Sep 13 13:49:33 2012 Subject: [Histonet] IHC lead In-Reply-To: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD7F1B@EX4.lj.gnf.org> References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD7F1B@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Message-ID: I completely agree with what Teri has mentioned regarding the problems with making absolute requirements for histology positions. I've been searching for a histology job in San Francisco & I know a number of professional websites that list histology jobs for clinical, research, Biotech Pharmaceutical companies & other industry. Sites like Biospace, JuJu, Indeed, Simply Hired, Higher Ed Jobs, NSH & a number of others. Often - a number of institutions/companies will state in their requirements (AA, BA, BS HT, HTL...or equivalent experience or knowledge of techniques or methods required by the position. I've even seen a few university positions (research) stating training & supervision would be provided by Principal Investigator of the lab. For a number of years, I've worked in research based histology labs where I have trained & worked side-by-side with some of the best knowledgeable & talented individuals who either had not previous training in histology or had their degrees in a completely different field! Maria Mejia San Francisco, CA On Sep 13, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Teri Johnson wrote: > Hi Dorothy, > > Take a quick look at the NSH website for job listings and maybe another career's website like Simplyhired.com or Monster and get some idea as to how the jobs for IHC lead techs are listed. > > The problem with making absolute requirements (BS, HTL, QIHC, etc) is there are a set of experienced techs who do not have these degrees or certifications who are highly qualified for the position and would face elimination from consideration based on that alone. You can list it as highly desirable instead of a requirement. > > Teri Johnson, HT(ASCP)QIHC > GNF Histology Lab Manager > Genomics Institute of the Novartis Research Foundation > 858-332-4752 > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From pruegg <@t> ihctech.net Thu Sep 13 14:05:37 2012 From: pruegg <@t> ihctech.net (Patsy Ruegg) Date: Thu Sep 13 14:05:46 2012 Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: By far the best ab for endothelial cells in mouse tissue is rat anti CD31 from Dianovo, it picks up the really early forming vessels better than any other cd31 or F8 or SMA I have ever used. We like it in AP/red. Regards, Patsy Hi, My favorite by far is VonWillebrandt (spelling?) factor VIII. Dako has a really good one (Cat# A0082) that works great in mouse tissue. CD31 is OK but it is really finicky. CD34 works but F8 is easier and more reliable. Amos On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:01 PM, wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:04:58 +0000 > From: "Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)" > Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker > To: "Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all > > Is anyone of you familiar with an antibody directed against endothelial > cells which can be applied on FFPE mouse tissues? > > Best regards > Joost Bruijntjes > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From shultz11 <@t> cox.net Thu Sep 13 14:48:19 2012 From: shultz11 <@t> cox.net (shultz11@cox.net) Date: Thu Sep 13 14:48:24 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Job opening Message-ID: <20120913154819.KKQ6B.1832370.imail@eastrmwml208> Louisiana State University Histology lab is hiring a Histology Technician. Apply online at www.lsu.edu click on human resources. The job is posted under civil service as a Lab Technician 1. Thanks From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 15:46:10 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Thu Sep 13 15:46:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Lab Consultants In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347569170.49813.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Lab Girl: It seems that you had a problem with a consultant. The best ones, as in any trade or service,?are those you find by "word of mouth". If you need a consultant you can use HistoNet; just ask: do you know a good histology consultant? Probably you will be better off this way. Ren? J.? ________________________________ From: Jay Lundgren To: Lab Girl Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Lab Consultants I heartily concur.? I have had dealings in the past with Acme lab company, and their rocket- powered roller skates did NOT reduce our TAT as they initially claimed.? We still have dozens of anvils, which they recommended we purchase, cluttering up the lab. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Sincerely? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL (ASCP) _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From cforster <@t> umn.edu Thu Sep 13 16:26:25 2012 From: cforster <@t> umn.edu (Colleen Forster) Date: Thu Sep 13 16:26:27 2012 Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50524F81.3040607@umn.edu> I second Patsy! I have used this antibody with both AP and DAB and have had excellent results. Colleen Forster U of MN On 9/13/2012 2:05 PM, Patsy Ruegg wrote: > > By far the best ab for endothelial cells in mouse tissue is rat anti CD31 > from Dianovo, it picks up the really early forming vessels better than any > other cd31 or F8 or SMA I have ever used. We like it in AP/red. > > Regards, > Patsy > > > Hi, > My favorite by far is VonWillebrandt (spelling?) factor VIII. Dako has > a really good one (Cat# A0082) that works great in mouse tissue. CD31 is OK > but it is really finicky. CD34 works but F8 is easier and more reliable. > > Amos > > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:01 PM, > wrote: > >> Message: 5 >> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:04:58 +0000 >> From: "Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)" >> Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker >> To: "Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hi all >> >> Is anyone of you familiar with an antibody directed against endothelial >> cells which can be applied on FFPE mouse tissues? >> >> Best regards >> Joost Bruijntjes >> > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From modz9636 <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 13 17:53:14 2012 From: modz9636 <@t> gmail.com (M.O.) Date: Thu Sep 13 17:53:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] MMA embedding - saving sample Message-ID: Hi Histonetters! I have a few samples embedded in pMMA that may need to be "unembedded." Has anyone ever heard of removing the MMA and saving the samples? Thank you, Merissa From careerstudio <@t> bellsouth.net Thu Sep 13 19:40:58 2012 From: careerstudio <@t> bellsouth.net (Career Studio) Date: Thu Sep 13 19:41:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Laboratory client seeking Histology Line Supervisor ~ Rye, New York Message-ID: <009c01cd9211$9c394270$d4abc750$@net> Our well-respected clinical laboratory client is currently seeking a Histology Line Supervisor to work the 9pm - 5:30am shift, Sunday thru Friday, based in their Rye, New York location. Will be responsible for day-to-day operations of the Histology laboratory & supervision of the technical & support staff. Key accountabilities: . In conjunction with the Department Manager, ensure that departmental policies & procedures meet the standards of current state & federal regulations. . Monitor & control expenses in line with department budget. Assist in the preparation of the budget & recommend capital equipment needs. . Maintain appropriate levels of supplies & reagents commensurate with workload, & equipment & instruments in good operating condition, recognize any malfunctions & troubleshoot. . Provide technical instructions & training of personnel in techniques, instrumentation, & organization of work. Facilitate continuing education. . Maintain procedure manual, reviewing & revising as needed. . Write & conduct employee performance evaluations. Maintain attendance records; approve overtime & vacation time. . Ensure that all employees follow all company & department policies; initiate performance improvement with employees, as needed. . Ensure technical quality so that Pathologists can adequately evaluate prepared slides. . Maintain appropriate Quality Assurance documentation. . Ensure that all employees comply with all safety regulations, including personal protective equipment, & that all corporate safety, quality control & quality assurance standards are met. . Ensure compliance with all local, federal, CLIA & CAP regulations. . Perform special projects, as assigned by the department manager. . Provide backup for bench Histotechnicians/Histotechnologists in sectioning & staining. Qualification for this role: . 4+ years Histology experience with 2+ years in a supervisory role . Proven leadership skills including performance management, recruiting, hiring & terminations, coaching/counseling, managing time off, coordinating workflow, training, . Bachelors of Science Degree or equivalent combination of education & experience. . Must be HT (ASCP) or HTL (ASCP). Compensation package offered for this opportunity is attractive, with excellent working environment & career path. Please contact David King at biolabcareers@aol.com for more information. David King Career Studio national search biolabcareers@aol.com 561-738-6363 Visit us on linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/biotechnologyhires From Mhorne <@t> upei.ca Fri Sep 14 08:06:33 2012 From: Mhorne <@t> upei.ca (Margaret Horne) Date: Fri Sep 14 08:06:48 2012 Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins Message-ID: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, Margaret From mcauliff <@t> umdnj.edu Fri Sep 14 08:35:20 2012 From: mcauliff <@t> umdnj.edu (Geoff) Date: Fri Sep 14 08:35:24 2012 Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins In-Reply-To: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> References: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Message-ID: <50533298.20905@umdnj.edu> Fix for a week or two, then rinse out most of the picrates with 50-70% ethanol. Fixation preserves cell morphology, it does not distort it. Geoff On 9/14/2012 9:06 AM, Margaret Horne wrote: > Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. > > How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell > morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? > > I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then > store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? > > > Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, > Margaret > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- -- ********************************************** Geoff McAuliffe, Ph.D. Neuroscience and Cell Biology Robert Wood Johnson Medical School 675 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08854 voice: (732)-235-4583; fax: -4029 mcauliff@umdnj.edu ********************************************** From je2 <@t> sanger.ac.uk Fri Sep 14 08:40:27 2012 From: je2 <@t> sanger.ac.uk (Jeanne Estabel) Date: Fri Sep 14 08:40:34 2012 Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins References: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Message-ID: <063919EA7FFBD8429AAD5B2A5E3B2A5843065E@exchsrv5.internal.sanger.ac.uk> Hi, I always fix them for 48h and move them to 70% ethanol. Regards Jeanne Jeanne Estabel, PhD Scientific Manager Histology Operations Manager Mouse Genetics Project Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute Cambridge, UK Tel:+44 (0)1223 834244 ext 8306 Find Sanger Mouse Genetics Project phenotyping data on http://www.sanger.ac.uk/mouseportal/ -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Margaret Horne Sent: 14 September 2012 14:07 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, Margaret -- The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE. From Mhorne <@t> upei.ca Fri Sep 14 08:58:41 2012 From: Mhorne <@t> upei.ca (Margaret Horne) Date: Fri Sep 14 08:58:57 2012 Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins- more info In-Reply-To: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> References: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Message-ID: <50530DE1020000D100018428@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Thanks for the incoming info; it's a big help. Sorry I need a little bit more detail so to explain a little more: Some of the testis are showing gaps between the tubules, more towards the centre of the testis and the researcher though it might be the protocol but we saw the gap in subsequent testis when we were cutting them in half after being fixed in Bouins for 24 hours-48hrs. Is this normal? Half the testis was processed but the other half was left in Bouins in case he wants to use it for something somewhere down the line. Some have been there a month- too long or ok? 70% EtOH better for long term ( months to years) storage? Thanks everyone, Margaret >>> "Margaret Horne" 14/09/2012 10:06 AM >>> Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, Margaret From mcauliff <@t> umdnj.edu Fri Sep 14 09:08:11 2012 From: mcauliff <@t> umdnj.edu (Geoff) Date: Fri Sep 14 09:08:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins- more info In-Reply-To: <50530DE1020000D100018428@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> References: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> <50530DE1020000D100018428@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Message-ID: <50533A4B.9020307@umdnj.edu> Fixation is not long enough and/or the piece of tissue is too large, that is why you see problems at the center. The connective tissue between the tubules is delicate and the normal shrinkage due to paraffin processing may show some gaps Fix longer, 24-48 hours is not sufficient. A month in Bouin's is probably better than 1-2 days. Long term months-years in rarely a good idea, why not just embed the tissue? Geoff On 9/14/2012 9:58 AM, Margaret Horne wrote: > Thanks for the incoming info; it's a big help. Sorry I need a little bit > more detail so to explain a little more: > > Some of the testis are showing gaps between the tubules, more towards > the centre of the testis and the researcher though it might be the > protocol but we saw the gap in subsequent testis when we were cutting > them in half after being fixed in Bouins for 24 hours-48hrs. Is this > normal? > > Half the testis was processed but the other half was left in Bouins in > case he wants to use it for something somewhere down the line. Some > have been there a month- too long or ok? > > 70% EtOH better for long term ( months to years) storage? > > Thanks everyone, > Margaret > > > >>>> "Margaret Horne" 14/09/2012 10:06 AM >>> > Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. > > How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell > morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? > > I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then > store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? > > > Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, > Margaret > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- -- ********************************************** Geoff McAuliffe, Ph.D. Neuroscience and Cell Biology Robert Wood Johnson Medical School 675 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08854 voice: (732)-235-4583; fax: -4029 mcauliff@umdnj.edu ********************************************** From liz <@t> premierlab.com Fri Sep 14 09:42:41 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Fri Sep 14 09:42:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] cell membrane In-Reply-To: <8BBE1CE425F5461BA90124A2F0388182@DESKTOP3> Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE66@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Patsy Not sure if this will work, but I remember a project we did on fixed vibratome sections of mouse liver. We did a bunch of IF markers I think we used Phalloidin and that seemed to outline the liver cells nicely. We used it already conjugated. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Patsy Ruegg Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:06 PM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] cell membrane Dear Histochemist, Does anyone know of a stain or histochemical reaction which will exclusively stain cell membrane and no other parts of the cell or other tissue components? Best regards, Patsy Patsy Ruegg, HT(ASCP)QIHC Director of Histology and IHC IHCtech a subsidiary of Flagship Bio-Sciences, LLC Fitzsimmons BioScience Park 12635 Montview Blvd. Suite 215 Aurora, CO 80045 P-720-859-4060 F-720-859-4110 email pruegg@ihctech.net & email pruegg@flagshipbio.com web site www.ihctech.net _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rsrichmond <@t> gmail.com Fri Sep 14 12:15:59 2012 From: rsrichmond <@t> gmail.com (Bob Richmond) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:16:03 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: mouse testis in Bouins Message-ID: Haven't seen mouse balls in years. My laptop has a trackpad. But seriously, folks, I concur - excessive time in Bouin's fixative will harden the tissue - move it to 70% alcohol. I've used Davidson's fixative (3 parts water, 3 parts alcohol, 2 parts 37% formaldehyde, 1 part acetic acid) with human testis as an alternative to Bouin's fixative. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Maryville TN From fbarron <@t> stanford.edu Fri Sep 14 12:21:45 2012 From: fbarron <@t> stanford.edu (Frances Elizabeth Barron) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:21:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins In-Reply-To: <20120914170206.A45B75802B0@mx3.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu> Hi Margaret, Our protocol for whole mouse embryos E14.5-E18.5 was to fix in Bouin's for 5-7 days at room temp (I have gone longer, but it isn't exactly recommended). Most of the length of time, however, was to compensate for the large tissue size and need for good penetration. I'm not sure how that converts to your particular tissue of interest. For long term storage, John Shelton at UT Southwestern (who did our vacuum processing for large embryos) told me that it was preferred to put them in 1% neutral buffered formalin and store them at room temp. We had previously been storing them in 70% EtOH, but John said that the long exposure to EtOH leads to excessive drying of the tissue and ultimately brittleness if used later. I'm assuming this thought could be applied to any tissue piece, but I don't have enough experience to really know. We have successfully gotten beautiful paraffin sections from 3mo-1year samples that have been stored this way. I'm hoping this will be of some help to you, and perhaps others in the list can comment. Best of luck, ~Francie ******************************************************* Francie Barron, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow, Joseph Wu Lab Stanford University School of Medicine Lorry I. Lokey Stem Cell Research Building 265 Campus Drive, Room G1105 Stanford, CA 94305-5454 Phone: (650) 724-5564 or (650) 724-9240 Fax: (650) 736-0234 ******************************************************* Message: 7 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:06:33 -0300 From: "Margaret Horne" Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins To: Message-ID: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, Margaret From dreynold <@t> mdanderson.org Fri Sep 14 12:26:03 2012 From: dreynold <@t> mdanderson.org (Reynolds,Donna M) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:26:04 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: m endothelial cell in FFPE Message-ID: <785BBF0C5F49CE41BA74460A43A08F02329891252A@DCPWVMBXC0VS3.mdanderson.edu> I recently tested a mCD34 from GeneTex cat GTX28158 that gave very nice labeling of mouse endothelial cells on FFPE. Used EDTA pH 8 antigen retrieval and no amplification. For those of you using the Dianovo mCD31 antibody what are you using for antigen retrieval? And are you using amplification? I tried this antibody a year or two ago and was not very happy with the results. I have also used the VonWillebrand. It give very nice label of large established vessels but not the new or smaller vessels. Donna Reynolds HT(ASCP Chief Histology Tech, Cancer Biology IHC Research Lab M.D. Anderson Cancer Center Houston, TX 713-792-8106 Message: 1 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:05:37 -0600 From: "Patsy Ruegg" Subject: RE: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker To: "'Amos Brooks'" , , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" By far the best ab for endothelial cells in mouse tissue is rat anti CD31 from Dianovo, it picks up the really early forming vessels better than any other cd31 or F8 or SMA I have ever used. We like it in AP/red. Regards, Patsy Hi, My favorite by far is VonWillebrandt (spelling?) factor VIII. Dako has a really good one (Cat# A0082) that works great in mouse tissue. CD31 is OK but it is really finicky. CD34 works but F8 is easier and more reliable. Amos On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:01 PM, wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:04:58 +0000 > From: "Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)" > Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker > To: "Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all > > Is anyone of you familiar with an antibody directed against > endothelial cells which can be applied on FFPE mouse tissues? > > Best regards > Joost Bruijntjes > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet **** From mmooreht <@t> yahoo.com Fri Sep 14 12:46:44 2012 From: mmooreht <@t> yahoo.com (Michelle Moore) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:46:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than In-Reply-To: <1347462801.1244.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1347379295.24904.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <504F7181.3090901@pigsqq.org> <1347390820.99147.YahooMailNeo@web121402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <505092E3.60206@pigsqq.org> <1347462801.1244.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1347644804.16936.YahooMailNeo@web125106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes Rene :) US Virgin Islands is still going as green as we can! Thank you for this gift! We have been de-waxing slides off line for over 14 months now ;TJC and CMS inspections 100% success during this transition. I was able to report to our PI department that we have experienced a cost reduction from $83.01/100 slides down to 4 pennies! My tech's are breathing in much deeper :) and excited to continue becoming as green as possible! Best Regards- Michelle Moore Histopathology Supervisor/Medical Examiner Ofc Schneider Regional Medical Center St. Thomas, USVI, 00802 ? ________________________________ From: Rene J Buesa To: E. Wayne Johnson Cc: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" ; "Mayer, Toysha N" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than EWayne (et al): So, there you have it! He (or she) who still uses xylene in the histology lab is just because he (or she) has decided to do so! At this moment what you describe is standard procedure for several private labs in the US and the US Virgin Islands, Canada, Russia and Spain. Besides dewaxing with dishwasher soap and air drying before cover-slipping, you can also eliminate xylene from tissue processing by just following the instructions outlinedin the articles I sent. you. Try to contact as many colleagues as you can and "spread the word": xylene is out of our lives, as long as we want to. Thank you for the information Ren? J. ________________________________ From: E. Wayne Johnson To: Rene J Buesa Cc: "Mayer,Toysha N" ; "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than Dishwashing machines are not at all common in China even in Beijing so we could not find dishwasher detergent nearby.?? But we took a bus and subway ride toward the city center to Zhongguancun (the computer district) and found a Carrefour's (Jia Le Fu ???) that had one brand of powdered detergent "Finish" (Reckett Benckiser). Finish was formerly called "Electrasol".? Actually I was a bit afraid of "Finish".? If I had known it was the same thing as the familiar Electrasol, I would not have had any concerns. Anyway, we took the Finish powder back to the lab where we had a covered water bath waiting at 90C. I mixed 40 grams in with 2L of tap water and we followed the protocol Rene' sent with some test tissues from some pigs we examined a few days ago (lung, liver, heart, spleen, kidney, gut). We heated the detergent solution on an induction stove and poured in into some square glass jars in the water bath. The procedure took the paraffin right off.? We did an H&E and dried the slide in the 60C oven after a water wash to clean up after Eosin.? Ver-r-ry nice result. Jane tried the technique then by herself with 3 more slides including one slide with some honking big pieces of pig cerebellum. The sections all stayed put on the slides.? Sometimes we can lose most of the cerebellum in processing, so we think it is a good demonstration that section loss is not going to be much of a problem. The stain was a Harris hematoxylin regressed with 1% HCl.? We blued some with tap water and some with Scott's.? I sort of prefer the plain tap water bluing. Our Eosin is an Eosin/Biebrich Scarlet (Acid Red 66)/Orange G that we make up.? We usually use a treatment in alcoholic Picric Acid to get rid of formalin pigment but we omitted that step today and the slides turned out well.? Indeed these pigs were a field necropsy and the formalin was simple 10% unbuffered formalin in plain local farm tap water, but there were only some traces of formalin pigment.? We are wondering if perhaps the detergent is taking out some of the formalin pigment for us. We got a few white paraffin spots on one slide but even that would not be an issue in reading or photographing the slide. Jane thinks she can tweak the procedure to eliminate the paraffin spots. Jane's opinion on the procedure?? She will be bottling up all of the xylenes and alcohols and storing them away first thing tomorrow morning. This fixes a big problem for us because the histolab is on the first floor along with some offices.? We do our work under a fume hood and we are careful, but we? had an incident where students left containers of xylene uncapped outside the hood overnight in hot weather vaporizing a large amount of xylene into the hallway.? Not cool. We moved the tissue processor and autostainer to a remoter spot on the 4th floor but the water quality issues there made our autostainer a problem.? We can now bring our autostainer back and set it up for special and routine stains.? The procedure with detergent from beginning to end is significantly shorter than the xylene alcohols stain alcohols xylene procedure and we will dramatically reduce our consumption and waste output of xylene and our consumption of ethanol.? Very cool. Thanks EW Johnson Enruikang Ag Tech Beijing On 9/12/2012 3:13 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: EWayne: >All mounting media contains a so called "solvent". Permount contains toluene (not as nasty as xylene) and will "penetrate" the section provided it is absolutely dehydrated (in an oven in this case). >You just have to finish the HC (or IHC) protocol and pop-in the slides in the oven. >Balsam of Canada (the resin) is dissolved in xylene (always) so the "penetration" is also assured. >Under separate cover I am sending you my articles. >Try this method, you will love it! >Ren? J. > > >From: E. Wayne Johnson mailto:ewj@pigsqq.org >To: Rene J Buesa mailto:rjbuesa@yahoo.com >Cc: "Mayer,Toysha N" mailto:TNMayer@mdanderson.org; mailto:'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:14 PM >Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than > >I am convinced to give it a try because I also have trouble will the >loss of some stains in dehydration. >I was concerned that the slides would not clear well after oven >dehydration.? I will see how it >works for me. > >I can see clearly how going from counterstain to oven will save much >hassle with xylene and alcohols as well as >not washing out some special stains.? I have tried some of the isopropyl >alcohol and acetone dehydration called for >in some of the stain procedures and it would be great if the slides >could just be popped into the oven. > >What mounting medium are you using?? Does it matter?? I am a bit worried >about penetration of the mountant >into the tissue section if there is no xylene in the tissue.? Will >neutral balsam still work ok? > >Rene:? if you have a link to the paper you talked about on eliminating >xylene, I am interested.? Xylene is becoming >more and more of an issue and a pain for us. > >EWJohnson >Enruikang Ag Tech >Beijing. > > >On 9/12/2012 12:01 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: >> Toysha: >> Perhaps you have not oven dried stained slides before, and that explains some of your comments, like: >> 1- if the stained slides are completely dried, the "miscibility" you point out is not an issues, because there is nothing to mix with; >> 2- if you dehydrate ? clear the stained sections that will take about 15 minutes per group of up to 25 slides, or even more depending on the protocol used in your automated stainer, but if your group of slides in their rack are placed in an oven at 60?C for 5 minutes it will just that, 5 minutes reducing the usual TAT for each staining procedure; >> 3- any oven can accommodate more than 100 stained slides in their racks and the TAT is shortened by oven drying, no matter how many slides you are working with; >> 4- I really do not know where you can find that "extreme heat" can affect the tissue sections. All tissue sections are fixed ? processed ? dried (usually at the same 60?C before staining) ? stained and an additional step at 60?C to dry before cover-slipping is just that, an additional step at 60?C >> 5- The so called "Lean" technologies do not refer to staining only, they have to do with the whole work-flow and an additional drying step at 60?C cannot affect in a negative way to the work-flow >> 6- after staining you will oven dry the sections. >> I think you should try the method instead. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "Mayer,Toysha N" >> To: "'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'" >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:41 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] RE: air drying special stain slides rather than >> >> >> Ooh, great question for my students next semester. >> Your answer is the counterstain, some counterstains may require dehydration after rinsing, or some may not. Adjusting the times of the counterstain is not the issue as much as? the solvent of the counterstain. >>? >> Rene, while I do acknowledge that the xylene may/will cause hazards, we must think of the miscibility of the clearant and the dehydrant, as well as the amount of time involved.? The amount of time involved to blot and air dry the slides will affect the TAT for the specimen.? 5 min may be ok if you have a small amount of slides, but with a larger number of slides, it will be considerably more than 5.? Also Lean methodologies would not apply in that case. With automation, the extreme heat involved with a stain dryer may affect the tissue on the slide. >> >> There are some stains that can be blotted, cleared and coverslipped, but using the alcohol to remove excess water and counter stain is better in my opinion. >> >> >> Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) >> Instructor, Education Coordinator >> Program in Histotechnology >> School of Health Professions >> MD Anderson Cancer Center >> (713) 563-3481 >> tnmayer@mdanderson.org >> >> >> >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0400 >> From: "Diana McCaig" >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >>? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear >> To: >> Message-ID: >>? ? ? >> Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset="us-ascii" >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Rene J Buesa >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than >>? ? ? dehydrate? ? and clear >> To: Diana McCaig, >>? ? ? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" >>? ? ? >> Message-ID: >>? ? ? <1347375125.72189.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Diana: >> The most simple answer to your question is: "Because that is the way it has been done for more than 150 years". >> The second question would be: "Is it necessary?" and the short answer to this question is: NO!!! >> As a matter of fact, one of the steps I have developed to totally eliminate xylene from the histology lab refers to the "clearing" of stained sections, not only "special stains" (the so called HC and IHC) but the routine as well (the H&E). >> Now, the "secret" to a successful drying of the stained slides is NOT to let them air dry because that will take not only too much time, but you can never be sure if the section is completely dry and if you add the mounting medium to a not completely dried section, you will have transparency problems. >> The correct way of doing that is by drying the stained sections during 5 minutes at 60?C in an oven. >> Under separate cover I am sending you something I published about your question and other aspects of how to completely eliminate xylene from ALL steps in the histology laboratory. >> Ren? J. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Diana McCaig >> To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:32 AM >> Subject: [Histonet] air drying special stain slides rather than dehydrate and clear >> >> I was hoping to get information on why special stains are dehydrated, cleared and mounted vs allowing them to be blotted dry, air dried then coverslip. >> >> >> >> Every procedure I have ever encountered always indicates to dehydrate and clear but I have heard where some labs are blotting the slides , allowing to air dry (probably not set standard time) and dipped in xylene prior to cover slipping.? Reason given is that the counterstain gets washed out.? Wouldn't adjusting the times be a better resolution. >> >> >> >> I understand residual water could be present and cause long term issues on storage but wanted some other opinions on this process. >> >> >> >> Diana >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >>? ? > > > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From melissa <@t> alliedsearchpartners.com Fri Sep 14 13:39:21 2012 From: melissa <@t> alliedsearchpartners.com (Melissa Phelan) Date: Fri Sep 14 13:39:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Position North of Boston, MA-Histotechs Message-ID: Hello and Happy Friday, I have two positions available just North of Boston, MA for full time/permanent bench level job openings. Please message for details. Thank you, To view a complete list of Allied Search Partners current openings go to: http://www.alliedsearchpartners.com/careers.php Melissa Phelan LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/melissaphelan President, Laboratory Staffing Allied Search Partners P: 888.388.7571 F: 888.388.7572 M: 407.697.1175 www.alliedsearchpartners.com From AGleiberman <@t> cbiolabs.com Fri Sep 14 16:08:54 2012 From: AGleiberman <@t> cbiolabs.com (Anatoli Gleiberman) Date: Fri Sep 14 16:09:09 2012 Subject: [Histonet] cell membrane In-Reply-To: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE6C@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D0F92@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local> <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE6C@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Message-ID: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local> Liz, It is possible to play with different catenins (gamma etc.) to get rid of nuclear staining. But if the target is epithelium I would try to use EpCAM first. And in case of different epithelial tumors EpCAM usually is up-regulated. Anatoli Gleiberman, PhD Director of Histopathology Cleveland Biolabs, Inc 73 High Street Buffalo, NY 14203 phone:716-849-6810 ext.354 fax:716-849-6817 e-mail: AGleiberman@cbiolabs.com -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Chlipala [mailto:liz@premierlab.com] Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 4:08 PM To: Anatoli Gleiberman; pruegg@ihctech.net Subject: RE: [Histonet] cell membrane Thanks Anatoli We have worked with beta-catenin before (4 different sources of antibody) and in the tissue that we looked at (tumor) we saw a combination of membrane, cytoplasmic and nuclear staining. I went back to some of the images from the phalloidin staining and cell membrane staining was variable, some cells were outlined nicely others were not. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 -----Original Message----- From: Anatoli Gleiberman [mailto:AGleiberman@cbiolabs.com] Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:41 PM To: Elizabeth Chlipala; pruegg@ihctech.net Subject: RE: [Histonet] cell membrane Liz, Patsy, Phalloidin will definitely stain under membrane actin in liver cells - but for all other cell types it will stain all intra-cytoplasmic actin stress fibrils and cytoplasmic actin network. For many epithelial cells with exclusion of keratinocytes and hepatocytes the best membrane marker is EpCAM. There are rat anti-mouse EpCAM antibody and mouse anti-human EpCAM antibody commercially available. It is possible to use anti-beta-catenin antibody for most of epithelia. So, combination of EpCAM and beta-catenin will stain on sections cell membranes of all epithelia. However, there are no satisfactory staining for cell membranes of connective tissue and smooth muscle cells and I am not sure about neurons and skeletal muscle cells. I am afraid, there are no such things as one reagent staining exclusively cell membranes of all cell types. Anatoli Gleiberman, PhD Director of Histopathology Cleveland Biolabs, Inc 73 High Street Buffalo, NY 14203 phone:716-849-6810 ext.354 fax:716-849-6817 e-mail: AGleiberman@cbiolabs.com -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Chlipala Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'Patsy Ruegg'; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] cell membrane Patsy Not sure if this will work, but I remember a project we did on fixed vibratome sections of mouse liver. We did a bunch of IF markers I think we used Phalloidin and that seemed to outline the liver cells nicely. We used it already conjugated. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Patsy Ruegg Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:06 PM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] cell membrane Dear Histochemist, Does anyone know of a stain or histochemical reaction which will exclusively stain cell membrane and no other parts of the cell or other tissue components? Best regards, Patsy Patsy Ruegg, HT(ASCP)QIHC Director of Histology and IHC IHCtech a subsidiary of Flagship Bio-Sciences, LLC Fitzsimmons BioScience Park 12635 Montview Blvd. Suite 215 Aurora, CO 80045 P-720-859-4060 F-720-859-4110 email pruegg@ihctech.net & email pruegg@flagshipbio.com web site www.ihctech.net _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From b427297 <@t> aol.com Fri Sep 14 18:55:12 2012 From: b427297 <@t> aol.com (Jackie O'Connor) Date: Fri Sep 14 18:55:22 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins In-Reply-To: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu> References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com> As a GLP tox lab, we have done away with using Bouin's altogether - there is literature out there (somewhere - not handy now) that indicates Modified Davidson's fixative provides the same testicular detail of bouins, without the picric acid danger. We switched about 3-4 years ago, and our testicle experts are happy. I believe most labs are getting away from Bouins. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Frances Elizabeth Barron To: histonet Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:21 pm Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins Hi Margaret, Our protocol for whole mouse embryos E14.5-E18.5 was to fix in Bouin's for 5-7 days at room temp (I have gone longer, but it isn't exactly recommended). Most of the length of time, however, was to compensate for the large tissue size and need for good penetration. I'm not sure how that converts to your particular tissue of interest. For long term storage, John Shelton at UT Southwestern (who did our vacuum processing for large embryos) told me that it was preferred to put them in 1% neutral buffered formalin and store them at room temp. We had previously been storing them in 70% EtOH, but John said that the long exposure to EtOH leads to excessive drying of the tissue and ultimately brittleness if used later. I'm assuming this thought could be applied to any tissue piece, but I don't have enough experience to really know. We have successfully gotten beautiful paraffin sections from 3mo-1year samples that have been stored this way. I'm hoping this will be of some help to you, and perhaps others in the list can comment. Best of luck, ~Francie ******************************************************* Francie Barron, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow, Joseph Wu Lab Stanford University School of Medicine Lorry I. Lokey Stem Cell Research Building 265 Campus Drive, Room G1105 Stanford, CA 94305-5454 Phone: (650) 724-5564 or (650) 724-9240 Fax: (650) 736-0234 ******************************************************* Message: 7 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:06:33 -0300 From: "Margaret Horne" Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins To: Message-ID: <505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, Margaret _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Fri Sep 14 19:58:16 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri Sep 14 19:58:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins In-Reply-To: <8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com> References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu> <8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? Surely its not the hyped explosion hazards. We use picric acid and as inquisitive boys we have tried very hard to ignite it thinking it would be fun. We dried some down and wrapped it in aluminum foil and with appropriate protection outdoors beat it with a hammer. So very disappointing. We only made it flat. We tried heating some. It does burn pretty good but not really dramatically. We tried purifying and recrystallizing it and it still didnt do anything spectacular. Our conclusion that as fireworks, pure picric acid is pretty much a dud. I have done some reading about picric acid and it seems that in lab conditions a picric acid explosion is very unlikely maybe impossible even if the stuff is very dry indeed. We do keep our picric acid wet in a safe spot for storage. Some metal salts of picric acid are said to be much more sensitive. We havent made any lead picrate to play with since we are worried about aerosolizing the lead when it does explode or flash. There are some youtube movies about how to make explosive derivatives of picric acid. it seems that picric acid is just not a very good explosive, and that small amounts in free open air are unlikely to explode. I have been unable to find any reference to any lab accidents with picric acid. Does anyone have any information to the contrary? On 9/15/2012 7:55 AM, Jackie O'Connor wrote: > As a GLP tox lab, we have done away with using Bouin's altogether - there is literature out there (somewhere - not handy now) that indicates Modified Davidson's fixative provides the same testicular detail of bouins, without the picric acid danger. We switched about 3-4 years ago, and our testicle experts are happy. I believe most labs are getting away from Bouins. > Jackie O' > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frances Elizabeth Barron > To: histonet > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:21 pm > Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins > > > Hi Margaret, > > Our protocol for whole mouse embryos E14.5-E18.5 was to fix in Bouin's for 5-7 > days at room temp (I have gone longer, but it isn't exactly recommended). Most > of the length of time, however, was to compensate for the large tissue size and > need for good penetration. I'm not sure how that converts to your particular > tissue of interest. > > For long term storage, John Shelton at UT Southwestern (who did our vacuum > processing for large embryos) told me that it was preferred to put them in 1% > neutral buffered formalin and store them at room temp. We had previously been > storing them in 70% EtOH, but John said that the long exposure to EtOH leads to > excessive drying of the tissue and ultimately brittleness if used later. I'm > assuming this thought could be applied to any tissue piece, but I don't have > enough experience to really know. We have successfully gotten beautiful paraffin > sections from 3mo-1year samples that have been stored this way. > > I'm hoping this will be of some help to you, and perhaps others in the list can > comment. > > Best of luck, > ~Francie > > ******************************************************* > > Francie Barron, Ph.D. > Postdoctoral Fellow, Joseph Wu Lab > > Stanford University School of Medicine > Lorry I. Lokey Stem Cell Research Building > 265 Campus Drive, Room G1105 > Stanford, CA 94305-5454 > > Phone: (650) 724-5564 or (650) 724-9240 > Fax: (650) 736-0234 > > ******************************************************* > > > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:06:33 -0300 > From: "Margaret Horne" > Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins > To: > Message-ID:<505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. > > How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell > morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? > > I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then > store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? > > > Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, > Margaret > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > From helen.ilsley <@t> uct.ac.za Sat Sep 15 03:15:16 2012 From: helen.ilsley <@t> uct.ac.za (helen.ilsley) Date: Sat Sep 15 03:15:19 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cd31 Message-ID: <1735506837-1347696912-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-796649887-@b4.c10.bise7.blackberry> Hi Which endothelial marker would you use for rat tissue? I am really interested to see what you all say. Thanks in advance Helen Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless device From lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 15 07:50:30 2012 From: lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net (Lee & Peggy Wenk) Date: Sat Sep 15 07:53:37 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins In-Reply-To: <5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu><8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com> <5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: >From CDC - not quite a lab, but in Jan. 2002, this company was "melting" down the plastic from around capacitors, to regain the metals inside, by putting the capacitors in a heavy metal pot with acid, and leaving it overnight. The next day, the person went to remove the metal lid from the metal pot. Picric acid had formed, and a large explosion occurred. Look at the photos of the pot, and at the remains of the concrete building with a roof. 1 person killed, 1 severely injured, 5 others also injured. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face/stateface/nj/02nj003.html Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS William Beaumont Hospital Royal Oak, MI 48073 The views expressed are mine, and do not reflect on the hospital -----Original Message----- From: E. Wayne Johnson Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:58 PM To: Jackie O'Connor Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? Surely its not the hyped explosion hazards. We use picric acid and as inquisitive boys we have tried very hard to ignite it thinking it would be fun. We dried some down and wrapped it in aluminum foil and with appropriate protection outdoors beat it with a hammer. So very disappointing. We only made it flat. We tried heating some. It does burn pretty good but not really dramatically. We tried purifying and recrystallizing it and it still didnt do anything spectacular. Our conclusion that as fireworks, pure picric acid is pretty much a dud. I have done some reading about picric acid and it seems that in lab conditions a picric acid explosion is very unlikely maybe impossible even if the stuff is very dry indeed. We do keep our picric acid wet in a safe spot for storage. Some metal salts of picric acid are said to be much more sensitive. We havent made any lead picrate to play with since we are worried about aerosolizing the lead when it does explode or flash. There are some youtube movies about how to make explosive derivatives of picric acid. it seems that picric acid is just not a very good explosive, and that small amounts in free open air are unlikely to explode. I have been unable to find any reference to any lab accidents with picric acid. Does anyone have any information to the contrary? On 9/15/2012 7:55 AM, Jackie O'Connor wrote: > As a GLP tox lab, we have done away with using Bouin's altogether - there > is literature out there (somewhere - not handy now) that indicates > Modified Davidson's fixative provides the same testicular detail of > bouins, without the picric acid danger. We switched about 3-4 years ago, > and our testicle experts are happy. I believe most labs are getting away > from Bouins. > Jackie O' > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frances Elizabeth Barron > To: histonet > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:21 pm > Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins > > > Hi Margaret, > > Our protocol for whole mouse embryos E14.5-E18.5 was to fix in Bouin's for > 5-7 > days at room temp (I have gone longer, but it isn't exactly recommended). > Most > of the length of time, however, was to compensate for the large tissue > size and > need for good penetration. I'm not sure how that converts to your > particular > tissue of interest. > > For long term storage, John Shelton at UT Southwestern (who did our vacuum > processing for large embryos) told me that it was preferred to put them in > 1% > neutral buffered formalin and store them at room temp. We had previously > been > storing them in 70% EtOH, but John said that the long exposure to EtOH > leads to > excessive drying of the tissue and ultimately brittleness if used later. > I'm > assuming this thought could be applied to any tissue piece, but I don't > have > enough experience to really know. We have successfully gotten beautiful > paraffin > sections from 3mo-1year samples that have been stored this way. > > I'm hoping this will be of some help to you, and perhaps others in the > list can > comment. > > Best of luck, > ~Francie > > ******************************************************* > > Francie Barron, Ph.D. > Postdoctoral Fellow, Joseph Wu Lab > > Stanford University School of Medicine > Lorry I. Lokey Stem Cell Research Building > 265 Campus Drive, Room G1105 > Stanford, CA 94305-5454 > > Phone: (650) 724-5564 or (650) 724-9240 > Fax: (650) 736-0234 > > ******************************************************* > > > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:06:33 -0300 > From: "Margaret Horne" > Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins > To: > Message-ID:<505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. > > How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell > morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? > > I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then > store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? > > > Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, > Margaret > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From madary <@t> verizon.net Sat Sep 15 10:49:53 2012 From: madary <@t> verizon.net (madary@verizon.net) Date: Sat Sep 15 10:50:01 2012 Subject: [Histonet] murine endothelial makrers Message-ID: <24828801.187413.1347724193696.JavaMail.root@vznit170060> &nb be finicky Nick(Rocky) Madary, HT/HTL(ASCP)QIHC On 09/06/12, histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Send Histonet mailing list submissions to [1] To subscribe or unsubscribe vi [2]http://lists.u or, via email, send a me [3]histonet-requ You can reach the person managing t [4]histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specif than "Re: Contents of Histonet digest..." Today's Topics:< 1. Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 4 (Madeleine Huey) 2. Ergo 3. endothelial cell marker (Amos Brooks) 4. der (Grantham, Andrea L 5. ImageJ : start help for muscle fiber count (Tora Barda 6. RE: ImageJ : start help for muscle fiber count (Elizabeth Chlip 7. Canton, Ohio HT Position (Hale, Meredith) 8. Colorado HT (Hal --------------------------------------------------- ------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:37:49 -07 From: Madeleine Huey <[5]madeleinehuey@gmail.com> Subje To: [6]h Message-ID: < BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Date: Wed, 5 > From: "Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)" <[8]joost.bruijntjes@tno.triskelion.nl> > Subject: [Hist > To: "[9]Histonet@lists.uts > <[10]Histonet@lists.utsouthwester > Message-ID: > > Con > > Hi all >< endothe > > Best > Joost Bruijntjes Joost, AbCam sell Rabbit anti-CD31 tissues (Cat. # ab28364); [12]http://www.abcam.com/CD31-antibody-ab28364.html Hope Madeleine Huey BS, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Supervisor - El Camino ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 19:56:21 +0000 From: "Gagnon, Eric" Subject: [Histonet] Ergonomics To: <[15] Message-ID: <5F06C3AD0B2 7264CA20C[16]FA986C87882E3151998F@EXCHANGEPV3.KGH.ON.CA< Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Karen,< Here's a response to your question, as I haven't seen any others (?) While I haven't used the Newcomer handgrip device, I developed have DeQuer the ol' micr recommend the foot p one. Yes, there is some loss hands on, but there is still the o line' and turning the wheel manually for I can only speak for myself, but the more I used more confident and at ease I became. Start off slowly, towards more challenging blocks as soon as you can. Not that one ever let one's guard down with anything with a motor...car, microtome, But in terms of ergonomics and saving your joints, I anything and everything you have at your disposal. It's never to late to change for the better. Hope this helps, Eric Gagnon Histology Laboratory Kingston General Hospital, Kingston, Ont ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:06:12 -0400 From: Amos Brooks <[17]amosbrooks@ Subject: [Histonet] endothelial cell marker To: [18]histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, [19]joost.b Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, My favorite has a really good is OK but it is reliable. Amos On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Message: > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:04:58 +0000 > From: "Bruijntjes, J <[21]joost.bruijntjes@tno.triskelion.nl>< endothelial cell marker > To: "[22]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > <[23]Hist > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >< > > Is anyone of you familiar with an antibody d endothelial > cells which can be applied on FFPE mous > > Best regards > Joost Bruijntjes > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 5 S From: "Grantham, Andrea L - (algranth)" <[25]algranth@email.arizona.edu> Subject: [Histonet] dermatologist v Project To: HISTONET <[26]histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" < who might let me know.A family emergency has required our dermatologist to cancel his trip this The Belize MIssion Project is a dental/medical mission that is in 20th year and is set up to provide dental and health care to the peopl the remote May It is a rewarding week among wonderful p the US and Canada to volunteer. Dermatology is we see here in the US (melasma, psoriasis, alopecia, more scabies, fungus and a leshmaniasis or two thrown i measure). The Belizeans are friendly and appreciative, the co beautiful, food is delicious and there is some time for activities like fishing and snorkeling too! English is the official language and one We headquarter on Ambergris Caye an various parts of the country. Keeping my fing there. Andi Grantham Andrea Grantham, HT (ASCP) Senior Research Specialis University of Arizona Cellular and Molecular Medicine Histology P.O.Box 245044 Tucson, AZ 85724 [28]algr anth@email.arizona.edu<[29]mailto:algranth@email.arizona.edu&g Tel: 520.626.4415 Fax: 520.626.2097 ------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 11:48:10 +0000 F Subject: [Histo To: "[31]mail=histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" <[32]histon Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Any guru o and number of mu Area by using freehand tool problems making a threshold with the automatic measurements. I'm not experienced, m Picture sample: [34]http://www.nt.ntnu.no/users/tbard al/muscle/muscle%20paraffin%202%c2%b5%2016x.jpg ________________ _________________________________________________________________ Tora B Overingeni?r/ Senior Engineer NTNU Senter for fiskeri o Aquaculture NTNU, 7491 Trondheim ------------------------------ Message: 6 Da From: Elizabeth Chlipala <[35]liz@premi Subject: [Histonet] RE: ImageJ : start help for muscle To: Tora Bardal <[36]tora.bardal@bio.ntnu.no>, "[37]mail=histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" < Message-ID: BS2K8.premierlab.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso- Tora If you are using an H&E it was vertually imp try to threshold fiber area. We worked with Image P 6 months trying to get this to work and we could not, we creating an algorithm in image pro that allowed us to trace the fi bers and that would calculate fiber area and diameter, etc. Liz < Premier Laboratory, LLC P Boulder, CO 80308 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 881-0763 (303) 682-9060 fax [40]liz@premierlab.com Ship to address Premier Laboratory, LLC 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, ________________________________________ From: [41]histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [[42]histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tora Bardal Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 5: To: [44]mail=histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu< Subject: [Histonet] ImageJ : start help for muscle fiber count Any guru out there that might give me some ideas how to measure size and Area by using fr problems making a thresho automatic measurements. I'm not ex Picture sample: [45]http://www.nt.ntnu.no /users/tbardal/muscle/muscle%20paraffin%202%c2%b5%2016x.jpg ____ ______________________________________________________________________ _____ Tora Bardal Overingeni?r/ Senior Engineer NTNU Senter f Aquaculture NTNU, 7491 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list [46]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [47]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 14:29:03 +0000 From: "Hale, Meredit Subject: [Histonet] Canton, Ohio HT Pos To: "[49]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" << href="mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" tar get=_blank>Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu> Message-ID: &l 02BE09@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPartners.intranet> Content-Type: Great part time opportunities' for Ohio! Gastroenterology Associates is looking HTL's to join their new laboratory . Candidate must following criteria: * Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR [51]http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior e grossing GI specimens * HT ASCP Certified Duties includ * Grossing * Embedding * Microtomy * Stainin * Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed< BR> This is a part time that offers a competitive rate and flexible hours. Interested applicants should contact Meredith Hale; phone 214-596-22 [52]mhale@miracals.com<[53]mailto:mhale@miracals.com> Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)cm Operations Liaision Director and Miraca Life Sciences 6655 North MacArthur B Irving , Texas 75039 Office: 214-596-2219 Cell: 469-648-8253< [54]mhale@miracals.com Message: 8 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 1 From: "Hale, Meredith" <[55]mhale@MiracaLS.com> Su To: "[56]Histonet@lists.utsouth <[57]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: <0E828EC51C7CC445A5[58]1E53F81B64E8C702BE23@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPart ners.intranet Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great par Colorado! Colora HTL's to join their existi the following criteria: * M [59]http://wwwn.cd grossing GI specimens * HT ASCP Certified Duties include: * Grossing * Embeddi * Microtomy * Staining * Ability to be flexible and This is a part time that o hours. Interested applicants should c 214-596-2219 or through email [60]mhale@miracals.com <[61]mailto:mhale@miracals.com> Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)c Operations Liaision Director and Education Coordinator Miraca L 6655 North MacArthur Blvd. Irving , Texas 75039 Offic Cell: 469-648-8253 Fax: 1-866-688-3280 [62]mhale@miraca ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list[63]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [64]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5 ************************* References 1. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 2. 3D"http://lists.u=/ 3. file://localhost/tmp/3D"mail 4. 3D"mailto:histonet-owner@lists.ut 5. 3D"mailto:madele 6. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 7. 3D"mailto:7X5PBw4S0STRp8GY-wRg@m 8. 3D"mailto:joost.bruijntjes@tno.triskelion.nl" 9. file://localhost/tmp/3D"m 10. 3D"mailto:Hist 11. 3D"mailto:2B49913668668835BE43@EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl" 12. 3D"http://www.abcam.com/CD31-antibody-ab28364.html" 13. 3D"mailto:gagnone@KGH.KARI.NET" 14. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 15. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 16. 3D"mailto:FA986C87882E3151998F@EXCHANG 17. 3D"mailto:amosbrooks@gmail.com" 18. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 19. 3D"mailto:joost.bruijntjes@tno.triskelion.nl" 20. 3D"mailto:mgmp1oc7=WqZ8_S3mCdQ@mail 21. 3D"mailto:joost.bruijntjes@tno 22. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 23. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 24. 3D"mailto:2B49913668668835BE43@E 25. 3D"mailto:algranth@email.arizona.edu" 26. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 27. 3D"mailto:0FE080641B847E1FF105@Carous 28. 3D"mailto:algranth@email.arizona.edu" 29. 3D"mailto:algranth 30. 3D"mailto:tora.bardal@bio. 31. 3D"mailto:mail=histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 32. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 33. 3D"mailto:1F7B951F3A2E13A6F452@WAREHOUSE03.w 34. 3D"http://www.nt.ntnu.no/users/tbardal/muscle/muscle%20para 35. 3D"mailto:liz@premierlab.com" 36. 3D"mailto:t 37. 3D"mailto:mail=histonet@lists.utsouthwester 38. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 39. 3D"mailto:A11CB9AE0 40. 3D"mailto:liz@pr 41. 3D"mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 42. 3D"mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 43. 3D"mailto:tora.bardal@bio.ntnu.no" 44. 3D"mailto:mail=histonet@lists.ut 45. 3D"http://www.nt.ntnu.no/users/tbardal/muscle/m 46. 3D"mailto:Histonet@li 47. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman 48. 3D"mailto:mhale@MiracaLS.com" 49. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthw 50. 3D"mailto:1E53F81B64E8C702B 51. 3D"http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc. 52. 3D"mailto:mhale@miracals.co 53. file://localhost/tmp/3D" 54. 3D"mailto:mhale@mirac 55. file://localhost/tmp/3D" 56. file://localhost/tmp/3D"mailt 57. 3D"mailto:Histonet@list 58. file://localhost/tmp/3D 59. ="http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/" 60. 3D"mailto:mhale@miracals.com" 61. 3D"mailto:mhale@miracals.com" 62. 3D"mailto:mhale@miracals.com" 63. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 64. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet" From kurlytop99 <@t> hotmail.com Sat Sep 15 15:26:51 2012 From: kurlytop99 <@t> hotmail.com (kristen martin ) Date: Sat Sep 15 15:26:55 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Tissue grossing Message-ID: Hi all, How does one become qualified to gross tissue? A lot of the jobs I have been looking at call for being qualified to gross tissue, where I work right now the residents and Pathology assistants are the ones who gross the tissue. Thanks in advance for any help! Kristen Martin Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From b427297 <@t> aol.com Sun Sep 16 08:29:02 2012 From: b427297 <@t> aol.com (Jackie O'Connor) Date: Sun Sep 16 08:29:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins In-Reply-To: References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu><8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com> <5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <8CF62265EC2A1CF-1A20-5B789@web-mmc-m05.sysops.aol.com> Geez - why is everyone so touchy about picric acid? To be clear - we process thousands of testes a year - we had to dispose of hundreds of gallons of Bouin's a year - as well as try to store it prior to use. Residual Bouin's fixed tissues were stored in 70% alcohol which was a pain in the keester.Residual Davidson's fixed tissues are archived with the other formalin fixed tissues. Because of disposal and storage costs, it was financially beneficial for us to find an alternative and we did. Ta da. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Lee & Peggy Wenk To: E. Wayne Johnson ; Jackie O'Connor Cc: histonet Sent: Sat, Sep 15, 2012 7:53 am Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins >From CDC - not quite a lab, but in Jan. 2002, this company was "melting" down the plastic from around capacitors, to regain the metals inside, by putting the capacitors in a heavy metal pot with acid, and leaving it overnight. The next day, the person went to remove the metal lid from the metal pot. Picric acid had formed, and a large explosion occurred. Look at the photos of the pot, and at the remains of the concrete building with a roof. 1 person killed, 1 severely injured, 5 others also injured. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face/stateface/nj/02nj003.html Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS William Beaumont Hospital Royal Oak, MI 48073 The views expressed are mine, and do not reflect on the hospital -----Original Message----- From: E. Wayne Johnson Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:58 PM To: Jackie O'Connor Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? Surely its not the hyped explosion hazards. We use picric acid and as inquisitive boys we have tried very hard to ignite it thinking it would be fun. We dried some down and wrapped it in aluminum foil and with appropriate protection outdoors beat it with a hammer. So very disappointing. We only made it flat. We tried heating some. It does burn pretty good but not really dramatically. We tried purifying and recrystallizing it and it still didnt do anything spectacular. Our conclusion that as fireworks, pure picric acid is pretty much a dud. I have done some reading about picric acid and it seems that in lab conditions a picric acid explosion is very unlikely maybe impossible even if the stuff is very dry indeed. We do keep our picric acid wet in a safe spot for storage. Some metal salts of picric acid are said to be much more sensitive. We havent made any lead picrate to play with since we are worried about aerosolizing the lead when it does explode or flash. There are some youtube movies about how to make explosive derivatives of picric acid. it seems that picric acid is just not a very good explosive, and that small amounts in free open air are unlikely to explode. I have been unable to find any reference to any lab accidents with picric acid. Does anyone have any information to the contrary? On 9/15/2012 7:55 AM, Jackie O'Connor wrote: > As a GLP tox lab, we have done away with using Bouin's altogether - there > is literature out there (somewhere - not handy now) that indicates > Modified Davidson's fixative provides the same testicular detail of > bouins, without the picric acid danger. We switched about 3-4 years ago, > and our testicle experts are happy. I believe most labs are getting away > from Bouins. > Jackie O' > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frances Elizabeth Barron > To: histonet > Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:21 pm > Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins > > > Hi Margaret, > > Our protocol for whole mouse embryos E14.5-E18.5 was to fix in Bouin's for > 5-7 > days at room temp (I have gone longer, but it isn't exactly recommended). > Most > of the length of time, however, was to compensate for the large tissue > size and > need for good penetration. I'm not sure how that converts to your > particular > tissue of interest. > > For long term storage, John Shelton at UT Southwestern (who did our vacuum > processing for large embryos) told me that it was preferred to put them in > 1% > neutral buffered formalin and store them at room temp. We had previously > been > storing them in 70% EtOH, but John said that the long exposure to EtOH > leads to > excessive drying of the tissue and ultimately brittleness if used later. > I'm > assuming this thought could be applied to any tissue piece, but I don't > have > enough experience to really know. We have successfully gotten beautiful > paraffin > sections from 3mo-1year samples that have been stored this way. > > I'm hoping this will be of some help to you, and perhaps others in the > list can > comment. > > Best of luck, > ~Francie > > ******************************************************* > > Francie Barron, Ph.D. > Postdoctoral Fellow, Joseph Wu Lab > > Stanford University School of Medicine > Lorry I. Lokey Stem Cell Research Building > 265 Campus Drive, Room G1105 > Stanford, CA 94305-5454 > > Phone: (650) 724-5564 or (650) 724-9240 > Fax: (650) 736-0234 > > ******************************************************* > > > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:06:33 -0300 > From: "Margaret Horne" > Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins > To: > Message-ID:<505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. > > How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell > morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? > > I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then > store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? > > > Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, > Margaret > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From ibernard <@t> uab.edu Sun Sep 16 12:07:41 2012 From: ibernard <@t> uab.edu (Ian R Bernard) Date: Sun Sep 16 12:07:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Tissue grossing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kristen hope this helps. See CAP requirement for other than a pathologist assistant or pathologist below. Our lab policy is to use the histotechnician certification HT(ASCP) or HTL (ASCP) as qualification to gross since there is an educational requirement for certification that is comparable or exceeds the CAP requirement. Ian **REVISED** 07/11/2011 ANP.11605 Gross Examination - Non-Pathologist Phase II When individuals other than a pathologist or pathology resident assist in gross examinations, the extent of their activities and the nature of supervision (direct vs. indirect) is defined in a documented protocol. NOTE: This protocol must list the specific types of specimens for which non-pathologists are permitted to assist in the gross examination. The nature of the supervision must be established individually, for each non-pathologist. The laboratory director is responsible for this protocol. REFERENCES 1) Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Clinical laboratory improvement amendments of 1988; final rule. Fed Register. 1992(Feb 28):7183 [42CFR493.1489(b)(6)] 2) Cibull ML. Q&A. Northfield, IL: College of American Pathologists CAP Today. 1997;11(7):112 3) Grzybicki DM, et al. National practice characteristics and utilization of pathologists' assistants. Arch Pathol Lab Med. 2001;125:905-912 **REVISED** 07/11/2011 ANP.11610 Gross Examination Qualifications Phase II If individuals other than a pathologist or pathology resident assist in gross examinations, such individuals qualify as high complexity testing personnel under CLIA regulations. NOTE: The laboratory director may delegate the dissection of specimens to non-pathologist individuals; these individuals must be qualified as high complexity testing personnel under CLIA regulations. The minimum training/experience required of such personnel is: 1. An earned associate degree in a laboratory science or medical laboratory technology, obtained from an accredited institution, OR 2. Education/training equivalent to the above that includes at least 60 semester hours or equivalent from an accredited institution. This education must include 24 semester hours of medical laboratory technology courses, OR 24 semester hours of science courses that includes 6 semester hours of chemistry, 6 semester hours of biology, and 12 semester hours of chemistry, biology or medical laboratory technology in any combination. In addition, the individual must have laboratory training including either completion of a clinical laboratory training program approved or accredited by the ABHES, NAACLA, or other organization approved by HHS (note that this training may be included in the 60 semester hours listed above), OR at least 3 months documented laboratory training in each specialty in which the individual performs high complexity testing. It is the responsibility of the laboratory director to determine whether an individual's education, training and experience satisfies the requirements of this checklist requirement. This checklist requirement applies only to laboratories subject to US regulations. Evidence of Compliance: ? Records of qualifications including degree or transcript and work history in related field OR documentation of grandfathered exception REFERENCES 1) Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Clinical laboratory improvement amendments of 1988; final rule. Fed Register. 2003(Oct 1):1070-1071 [42CFR493.1489], 1071-1072 [42CFR493.1491]. V/r Ian Bernard -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of kristen martin Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:27 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Tissue grossing Hi all, How does one become qualified to gross tissue? A lot of the jobs I have been looking at call for being qualified to gross tissue, where I work right now the residents and Pathology assistants are the ones who gross the tissue. Thanks in advance for any help! Kristen Martin Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From epeters2 <@t> gmu.edu Sun Sep 16 14:20:32 2012 From: epeters2 <@t> gmu.edu (Esther C Peters) Date: Sun Sep 16 14:20:36 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Acid-cleaning of slides for metals stains Message-ID: We are going to do special stains for iron (Perl's Prussian Blue for ferric iron, Mallory's Method from WebPath: Internet Pathology Laboratory) and copper (Rhodanine from Carson and Hladik) in mouse livers. We have on hand unopened boxes of plus-charged microscope slides. Do we need to acid clean these slides before we put sections on them for these stains (understanding that the charge will no longer exist, but the cleaning is more important for these stains)? I would also appreciate any insights about the best acid-cleaning procedure for all glassware for these stains. I have used nitric acid in the past, swirling it around the staining dishes and covering glass racks in a staining dish (how long should this be for?), then rinsing with double-deionized water (or would you recommend distilled only?). Thank you! Esther C. Peters, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Environmental Science & Policy Biology Program/Medical Technology Coordinator George Mason University 4400 University Drive, MSN 5F2 Fairfax, VA 22030-4444 Office: David King Hall 3057 Phone: 703-993-3462 Fax: 703-993-1066 epeters2@gmu.edu From lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 16 19:13:04 2012 From: lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net (Lee & Peggy Wenk) Date: Sun Sep 16 19:13:09 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Acid-cleaning of slides for metals stains In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58ACE5E8E048443CBFBD4ABE2E27A6FD@HP2010> For most histology demonstration of iron or copper, we are not doing a quantitative analysis (exactly how much is in the tissue). We are usually just demonstrating yes there is iron or copper, or no there is not. In the case of hemosiderosis, hemochromatosis, or Wilson's disease, we might be documenting there is a LOT of iron or copper, but we're don't demonstrating a specific amount. If this is what you are doing (yes/no), then if your d. water (either deionized or distilled) has practically no iron or copper in it, there is no need to acid-clean glassware or the slides, as long as you do the following: 1) Use the slides as they are from the box. 2) Wash the coplin jars in hot water with soap and bleach (or other commercial cleaner). After rinsing in hot tap water several times (3-4), rinse in d. water several times (3-4). To test to see if all the soap and bleach (or cleaner) has been rinsed off completely, touch a pH strip to the wet inside of the coplin jar. If the pH turns acidic or basic, then there is still soap and/or commercial cleaner in it. Keep rinsing in d. water until pH meter remains neutral. 3) Test your d. water once in a while for contaminants. A company called HACH has a lot of kits for this, relatively cheap. Can test for resistivity or conductivity, which will tell you how many ions are in the water. If there are very few, then don't bother testing for which ones (unless you HAVE to do the quantitative testing of minerals/metals). If there are a lot of ions, then you might want to find out which ones, either by sending out to an outside testing company, or buying some of Hach's tests for copper or iron (since this is what you are concerned about). Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS Beaumont Hospital Royal Oak, MI 48073 The opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect one Beaumont Hospital. -----Original Message----- From: Esther C Peters Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:20 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Acid-cleaning of slides for metals stains We are going to do special stains for iron (Perl's Prussian Blue for ferric iron, Mallory's Method from WebPath: Internet Pathology Laboratory) and copper (Rhodanine from Carson and Hladik) in mouse livers. We have on hand unopened boxes of plus-charged microscope slides. Do we need to acid clean these slides before we put sections on them for these stains (understanding that the charge will no longer exist, but the cleaning is more important for these stains)? I would also appreciate any insights about the best acid-cleaning procedure for all glassware for these stains. I have used nitric acid in the past, swirling it around the staining dishes and covering glass racks in a staining dish (how long should this be for?), then rinsing with double-deionized water (or would you recommend distilled only?). Thank you! Esther C. Peters, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Environmental Science & Policy Biology Program/Medical Technology Coordinator George Mason University 4400 University Drive, MSN 5F2 Fairfax, VA 22030-4444 Office: David King Hall 3057 Phone: 703-993-3462 Fax: 703-993-1066 epeters2@gmu.edu _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From joost.bruijntjes <@t> tno.triskelion.nl Mon Sep 17 01:29:26 2012 From: joost.bruijntjes <@t> tno.triskelion.nl (Bruijntjes, J.P. (Joost)) Date: Mon Sep 17 01:29:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) Message-ID: Thanks to all who replied on my question about endothelial cell marker in FFPE mouse liver. Joost From mcauliff <@t> umdnj.edu Mon Sep 17 09:26:43 2012 From: mcauliff <@t> umdnj.edu (Geoff) Date: Mon Sep 17 09:27:00 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards In-Reply-To: <5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu> <8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com> <5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <50573323.90104@umdnj.edu> I am with Wayne on this one. While I have not tried to make it explode it does seem to me that the dangers are hyped beyond reason. Years ago an old bottle of picric acid would be discovered in a high school chemistry lab. Horrors! Call the bomb squad! So it was taken out to a large field, packed with explosives and BOOM! Of course it exploded, it was surrounded with explosives. Geoff On 9/14/2012 8:58 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? > > Surely its not the hyped explosion hazards. > > We use picric acid and as inquisitive boys we have tried very hard to > ignite it thinking it would be fun. > > We dried some down and wrapped it in aluminum foil and with > appropriate protection outdoors beat it with a hammer. > So very disappointing. We only made it flat. > > We tried heating some. It does burn pretty good but not really > dramatically. > We tried purifying and recrystallizing it and it still didnt do > anything spectacular. > Our conclusion that as fireworks, pure picric acid is pretty much a dud. > > I have done some reading about picric acid and it seems that in lab > conditions a > picric acid explosion is very unlikely maybe impossible even if the > stuff is very dry indeed. > We do keep our picric acid wet in a safe spot for storage. > > Some metal salts of picric acid are said to be much more sensitive. > We havent made any lead picrate to play with > since we are worried about aerosolizing the lead when it does explode > or flash. > > There are some youtube movies about how to make explosive derivatives > of picric acid. it seems > that picric acid is just not a very good explosive, and that small > amounts in free open air are unlikely to explode. > > I have been unable to find any reference to any lab accidents with > picric acid. > > Does anyone have any information to the contrary? > > > > > On 9/15/2012 7:55 AM, Jackie O'Connor wrote: >> As a GLP tox lab, we have done away with using Bouin's altogether - >> there is literature out there (somewhere - not handy now) that >> indicates Modified Davidson's fixative provides the same testicular >> detail of bouins, without the picric acid danger. We switched about >> 3-4 years ago, and our testicle experts are happy. I believe most >> labs are getting away from Bouins. >> Jackie O' >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Frances Elizabeth Barron >> To: histonet >> Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:21 pm >> Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins >> >> >> Hi Margaret, >> >> Our protocol for whole mouse embryos E14.5-E18.5 was to fix in >> Bouin's for 5-7 >> days at room temp (I have gone longer, but it isn't exactly >> recommended). Most >> of the length of time, however, was to compensate for the large >> tissue size and >> need for good penetration. I'm not sure how that converts to your >> particular >> tissue of interest. >> >> For long term storage, John Shelton at UT Southwestern (who did our >> vacuum >> processing for large embryos) told me that it was preferred to put >> them in 1% >> neutral buffered formalin and store them at room temp. We had >> previously been >> storing them in 70% EtOH, but John said that the long exposure to >> EtOH leads to >> excessive drying of the tissue and ultimately brittleness if used >> later. I'm >> assuming this thought could be applied to any tissue piece, but I >> don't have >> enough experience to really know. We have successfully gotten >> beautiful paraffin >> sections from 3mo-1year samples that have been stored this way. >> >> I'm hoping this will be of some help to you, and perhaps others in >> the list can >> comment. >> >> Best of luck, >> ~Francie >> >> ******************************************************* >> >> Francie Barron, Ph.D. >> Postdoctoral Fellow, Joseph Wu Lab >> >> Stanford University School of Medicine >> Lorry I. Lokey Stem Cell Research Building >> 265 Campus Drive, Room G1105 >> Stanford, CA 94305-5454 >> >> Phone: (650) 724-5564 or (650) 724-9240 >> Fax: (650) 736-0234 >> >> ******************************************************* >> >> >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:06:33 -0300 >> From: "Margaret Horne" >> Subject: [Histonet] mouse testis in Bouins >> To: >> Message-ID:<505301A9020000D10001841D@oes-grpwise.novell.upei.ca> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hello Everyone, I am asking this for a friend. >> >> How long can mouse testis be kept in Bouins without distortion of cell >> morphology? Days? weeks? months? years? >> >> I noticed in the Archives that many people fix in Bouins , rinse, then >> store in 70% EtOH. This is preferable I assume. Again, how long is ok? >> >> >> Thanks in advance for the sharing of your accumulated wisdom, >> Margaret >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- -- ********************************************** Geoff McAuliffe, Ph.D. Neuroscience and Cell Biology Robert Wood Johnson Medical School 675 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08854 voice: (732)-235-4583; fax: -4029 mcauliff@umdnj.edu ********************************************** From brendal.finlay <@t> medicalcenterclinic.com Mon Sep 17 10:27:29 2012 From: brendal.finlay <@t> medicalcenterclinic.com (Brendal Finlay) Date: Mon Sep 17 10:27:36 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Shandon Cassette Microwriter Stylus Message-ID: Hello Histonet! We're setting up our new cassette labeler and are having issues with the stylus.? When cassettes are printed, the font is very thin and there is a line dragging through the entire printed area.? Does anyone out there have isntructions on adjusting the stylus?? I am supposed to be getting some via email through our vendor, but my manager is chomping at the bit to get things going and this was requested Friday.? It is a Shandon Cassette Microwriter Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Brendal C. Finlay, HT (ASCP) From jorourke <@t> allied360.com Mon Sep 17 10:31:27 2012 From: jorourke <@t> allied360.com (Judy O'Rourke) Date: Mon Sep 17 10:28:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local> Message-ID: Hello... In Clinical Lab Products? just-released September issue, the article ?Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology? addresses the challenges and trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control Committee, is quoted. Please share comments on CLP?s Facebook page, where I?ve just posted the article: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 Thank you! Judy JUDY O?ROURKE | Editor Clinical Lab Products 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag From pruegg <@t> ihctech.net Mon Sep 17 12:33:01 2012 From: pruegg <@t> ihctech.net (Patsy Ruegg) Date: Mon Sep 17 12:33:11 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Tissue grossing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CD6D09FCB94471CBC3B17381436FFC0@prueggihctechlt> You need to have a minimum of an associates degree and then go thru training by a pathologist to qualify to do grossing. Patsy Ruegg, HT(ASCP)QIHC IHCtech 12635 Montview Blvd. Ste.215 Aurora, CO 80045 720-859-4060 fax 720-859-4110 www.ihctech.net www.ihcrg.org -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of kristen martin Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:27 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Tissue grossing Hi all, How does one become qualified to gross tissue? A lot of the jobs I have been looking at call for being qualified to gross tissue, where I work right now the residents and Pathology assistants are the ones who gross the tissue. Thanks in advance for any help! Kristen Martin Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From pruegg <@t> ihctech.net Mon Sep 17 12:38:46 2012 From: pruegg <@t> ihctech.net (Patsy Ruegg) Date: Mon Sep 17 12:38:53 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cd31 In-Reply-To: <1735506837-1347696912-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-796649887-@b4.c10.bise7.blackberry> References: <1735506837-1347696912-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-796649887-@b4.c10.bise7.blackberry> Message-ID: Unfortunately we do not have an anti rat cd31 like the rat anti ms one, so what I have used in rat tissue is either CD34 (not that specific to endo cells, stains a lot of other stuff), SMA or F8 (these two pick up the more mature vessels but not the early ones), we need an anti rat CD31 like the anti ms one from Dianova. Years ago SC had a good cd31 made in a rabbit or goat that worked well in ms or rat tissue but the rabbit died or something and we have not gotten another good one yet for rat tissue that I know of??? Patsy Ruegg, HT(ASCP)QIHC IHCtech 12635 Montview Blvd. Ste.215 Aurora, CO 80045 720-859-4060 fax 720-859-4110 www.ihctech.net www.ihcrg.org -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of helen.ilsley Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:15 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Cd31 Hi Which endothelial marker would you use for rat tissue? I am really interested to see what you all say. Thanks in advance Helen Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device From tkngflght <@t> yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 12:59:46 2012 From: tkngflght <@t> yahoo.com (Cheryl) Date: Mon Sep 17 12:59:52 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Traveling PA / Direct hire position Message-ID: <1347904786.2974.YahooMailNeo@web39404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone- ? Speaking of PA and grossing qualifications-- ? ? ? We're in search of a PA to support one of our client labs in the Southeast.? It's a shorter assignment just in time for cooler weather.? If it is a great fit for you and the lab, there is potential for a direct hire... ? Please call for more details! ? ? ? In service~ ? ? Cheryl Cheryl Kerry, HT(ASCP) Full Staff Inc. Staffing the AP Lab by helping one GREAT?Tech at a time.? 281.852.9457?Office 800.756.3309?Phone & Fax? admin@fullstaff.org Sign up for the FREE?newsletter AP News--updates, tricks of the trade and current issues for Anatomic Pathology Clinical Labs. Send a 'subscribe' request to APNews@fullstaff.org. Please?include your name and specialty in the body of the email. From tkngflght <@t> yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 13:02:21 2012 From: tkngflght <@t> yahoo.com (Cheryl) Date: Mon Sep 17 13:02:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] HTL day job in Texas - direct hire Message-ID: <1347904941.99604.YahooMailNeo@web39406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yup, me again! ? Another facility we support is looking for a HTL(ASCP) or a HT with a bachelors degree.? This is a day position in Texas.? There is a full range of duties so you'll not be bored! ? ? ? Please call for answers to your questions-- ? ? In service- ? ? Cheryl Cheryl Kerry, HT(ASCP) Full Staff Inc. Staffing the AP Lab by helping one GREAT?Tech at a time.? 281.852.9457?Office 800.756.3309?Phone & Fax? admin@fullstaff.org Sign up for the FREE?newsletter AP News--updates, tricks of the trade and current issues for Anatomic Pathology Clinical Labs. Send a 'subscribe' request to APNews@fullstaff.org. Please?include your name and specialty in the body of the email. From JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org Mon Sep 17 14:22:19 2012 From: JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org (Jesus Ellin) Date: Mon Sep 17 14:22:25 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, Message-ID: With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1. Digital Pathology 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > Hello... > > In Clinical Lab Products? just-released September issue, the article > ?Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology? addresses the challenges and trends > you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control > Committee, is quoted. > > Please share comments on CLP?s Facebook page, where I?ve just posted the > article: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin > ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > > Thank you! > > Judy > > JUDY O?ROURKE | Editor > Clinical Lab Products > 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 > office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 > jorourke@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com > > Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ From liz <@t> premierlab.com Mon Sep 17 14:42:00 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Mon Sep 17 14:42:05 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE8B@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> I do agree that as histotechs we need to very much involved in Digital Pathology and new technologies as much as possible, if we do not we will be left behind. Here is a quote that I reference with respects to "new technologies". But I am an early adopter of digital pathology. "Once a new technology hits you, if you are not part of the steamroller you are part of the road" - Lee A. Iacocca 1. Digital Pathology - We have been scanning slides since 2007, very active in this technology, board member of the Digital Pathology Association. 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) - we will be actively running ISH in the next couple months, have looked at the other technologies but have not made the move yet to bring those into the lab yet, but its on our radar. 3. Automation Semi to complete - automated H&E, and immunostainers. 4. Barcoding - would love to barcode, its difficult in the research setting, software is available in the clinical setting but not for research, we have been looking for over a year on a system that would work in research and in our setting. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:22 PM To: Judy O'Rourke Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1. Digital Pathology - We have been scanning slides since 2007, very active in this technology. 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) - we will be actively running ISH in the next couple months, have looked at the other technologies but have not made the move yet to bring those into the lab yet, but its on our radar. 3. Automation Semi to complete - automated H&E, and immunostainers. 4. Barcoding - would love to barcode, its difficult in the research setting, software is available in the clinical setting but not for research, we have been looking for over a year on a system that would work in research. A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > Hello... > > In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article > "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and trends > you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control > Committee, is quoted. > > Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted the > article: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin > ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > > Thank you! > > Judy > > JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor > Clinical Lab Products > 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 > office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 > jorourke@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com > > Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 14:41:01 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Mon Sep 17 14:43:16 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, Message-ID: <1347910861.28339.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The advances of science and technology cannot and should not be stopped. These are the beginnings of the XXIst century and in the same way that many (most) highly manual manufacturing jobs that left our soil to not return, in the same way histotechs have to learn new working ways, new technologies. We cannot remain static hopping that our jobs will remain as they were yesterday or are now. In the same way that old workers need to retrain to survive, histotechs need also to train and embrace the new technologies. We cannot expect that if a diagnostic can be made quicker and better using a new molecular or genetic techniques the pathologists are not going to use and remain committed to the traditional ways just to "save" our positions. It is the law of life: adapt or perish! Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Jesus Ellin To: Judy O'Rourke Cc: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future.? I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1.? Digital Pathology 2.? Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3.? Automation Semi to complete 4.? Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change.? Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year?? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > Hello... > > In Clinical Lab Products? just-released September issue, the article > ?Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology? addresses the challenges and trends > you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control > Committee, is quoted. > > Please share comments on CLP?s Facebook page, where I?ve just posted the > article: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin > ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > > Thank you! > > Judy > > JUDY O?ROURKE |? Editor > Clinical Lab Products > 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 > office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 > jorourke@allied360.com | http://www.clpmag.com/ > > Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.? If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.? If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From liz <@t> premierlab.com Mon Sep 17 15:10:02 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Mon Sep 17 15:10:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] need Skip Browns e-mail Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE93@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Hey does anyone out there have Skip's e-mail I need to contact him. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 From JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org Mon Sep 17 15:32:28 2012 From: JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org (Jesus Ellin) Date: Mon Sep 17 15:32:37 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE8B@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> References: , <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE8B@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Message-ID: I do agree with both Rene and Elizabeths assessment, but what are we doing as a profession to secure our foot hold in the future of pathology? Are we teaching our students and staff members the new techniques and trouble shooting skills needed for this advancement in skills, or are we just still doing the basics? Don't get me wrong the basics are needed, but there are new basics that have presented themselves to us within out profession. Such examples would be image theory, computational analysis, bio analytics, bio informatics, and Computer systems interoperability, etc... where are these items being taught to the techs of the future? I know that there will always be a need for the basic techs, but even as the article stated, we are the ones that know tissue and its function,, we are the ones that understand the pre-analytics to make it successful. But then again every where i go i hear of not being able to keep up with the demand of our basic routine of getting the H and E out,, or not enough time to think about this. Then the solutions becomes out of sight out of mind,, or we can get to that later. The problem is that currently our governing agencies, CAP, ASCP, NSH, CMS, CLSI, etc are creating the frame work for the lab of the future that will handle this testing, and guess what Histotechs are NOT apart of this equation. YOur thoughts Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 12:42 PM, "Elizabeth Chlipala" wrote: > I do agree that as histotechs we need to very much involved in Digital Pathology and new technologies as much as possible, if we do not we will be left behind. Here is a quote that I reference with respects to "new technologies". But I am an early adopter of digital pathology. > > "Once a new technology hits you, if you are not part of the steamroller > you are part of the road" - Lee A. Iacocca > > 1. Digital Pathology - We have been scanning slides since 2007, very active in this technology, board member of the Digital Pathology Association. > 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) - we will be actively running ISH in the next couple months, have looked at the other technologies but have not made the move yet to bring those into the lab yet, but its on our radar. > 3. Automation Semi to complete - automated H&E, and immunostainers. > 4. Barcoding - would love to barcode, its difficult in the research setting, software is available in the clinical setting but not for research, we have been looking for over a year on a system that would work in research and in our setting. > > Liz > > Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC > Manager > Premier Laboratory, LLC > PO Box 18592 > Boulder, CO 80308-1592 > (303) 682-3949 office > (303) 682-9060 fax > (303) 881-0763 cell > www.premierlab.com > > Ship to address: > > 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E > Longmont, CO 80504 > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:22 PM > To: Judy O'Rourke > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. > > I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: > > 1. Digital Pathology - We have been scanning slides since 2007, very active in this technology. > 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) - we will be actively running ISH in the next couple months, have looked at the other technologies but have not made the move yet to bring those into the lab yet, but its on our radar. > 3. Automation Semi to complete - automated H&E, and immunostainers. > 4. Barcoding - would love to barcode, its difficult in the research setting, software is available in the clinical setting but not for research, we have been looking for over a year on a system that would work in research. > > A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > >> Hello... >> >> In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article >> "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and trends >> you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control >> Committee, is quoted. >> >> Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted the >> article: >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin >> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 >> >> Thank you! >> >> Judy >> >> JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor >> Clinical Lab Products >> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 >> office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 >> jorourke@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com >> >> Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message is confidential, intended only for the named > recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged > or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are > not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is > strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, > or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender > at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number > listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. > Thank You. > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ From liz <@t> premierlab.com Mon Sep 17 15:45:56 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Mon Sep 17 15:45:59 2012 Subject: [Histonet] got what I needed Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE9C@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Thanks to everyone, I have Skips e-mail. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 From Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org Mon Sep 17 16:00:18 2012 From: Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org (Morken, Timothy) Date: Mon Sep 17 16:00:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, Message-ID: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and can converse with pathologist about the results. Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than histology. Completely different training required, though I have no doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job advertised (including histology!!)? Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. Seems a perfect match (google it!). Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those types? Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue how to train a histotech if they had to. All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting more involved with the entire system. Tim Morken -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM To: Judy O'Rourke Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1. Digital Pathology 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > Hello... > > In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article > "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and > trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH > Quality Control Committee, is quoted. > > Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted > the > article: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page > s/Clin > ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > > Thank you! > > Judy > > JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor > Clinical Lab Products > 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office > 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | > www.clpmag.com > > Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org Mon Sep 17 16:12:09 2012 From: JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org (Jesus Ellin) Date: Mon Sep 17 16:12:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, , <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <4E2EE0FF-3320-4553-9612-39C80E89E751@yumaregional.org> Tim, I think basic histology is going to be manual,, but i see the explosion of technology sweeping our field. As Bill states it all about standardization,, but try getting the same H and E across the board,, thats not going to happen IHC will always we a bread and butter, but now since the government has limited the amoun t of IHC per patient, we are going to see a lot changes here. With only 4 IHC per patient Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:00 PM, "Morken, Timothy" wrote: > Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? > > Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. > > IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. > > The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and can converse with pathologist about the results. > > Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than histology. Completely different training required, though I have no doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job advertised (including histology!!)? > > Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. Seems a perfect match (google it!). > > Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! > > Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. > > Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those types? > > Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue how to train a histotech if they had to. > > All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting more involved with the entire system. > > > > Tim Morken > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM > To: Judy O'Rourke > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. > > I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: > > 1. Digital Pathology > 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding > > A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > >> Hello... >> >> In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article >> "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and >> trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH >> Quality Control Committee, is quoted. >> >> Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted >> the >> article: >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page >> s/Clin >> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 >> >> Thank you! >> >> Judy >> >> JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor >> Clinical Lab Products >> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office >> 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | >> www.clpmag.com >> >> Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message is confidential, intended only for the named > recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. > Thank You. > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ From billodonnell <@t> catholichealth.net Mon Sep 17 16:11:34 2012 From: billodonnell <@t> catholichealth.net (O'Donnell, Bill) Date: Mon Sep 17 16:12:34 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <1347910861.28339.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, <1347910861.28339.YahooMailNeo@web121405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4940DF6D1C5FDF48931B6966AAEF939575CCE0@chimsx08.CHI.catholichealth.net> Well stated -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:41 PM To: Jesus Ellin; Judy O'Rourke Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology The advances of science and technology cannot and should not be stopped. These are the beginnings of the XXIst century and in the same way that many (most) highly manual manufacturing jobs that left our soil to not return, in the same way histotechs have to learn new working ways, new technologies. We cannot remain static hopping that our jobs will remain as they were yesterday or are now. In the same way that old workers need to retrain to survive, histotechs need also to train and embrace the new technologies. We cannot expect that if a diagnostic can be made quicker and better using a new molecular or genetic techniques the pathologists are not going to use and remain committed to the traditional ways just to "save" our positions. It is the law of life: adapt or perish! Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Jesus Ellin To: Judy O'Rourke Cc: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future.? I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1.? Digital Pathology 2.? Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3.? Automation Semi to complete 4.? Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change.? Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year?? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > Hello... > > In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article > "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and > trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH > Quality Control Committee, is quoted. > > Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted > the > article: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page > s/Clin > ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > > Thank you! > > Judy > > JUDY O'ROURKE |? Editor > Clinical Lab Products > 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office > 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | > http://www.clpmag.com/ > > Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.? If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.? If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet This electronic mail and any attached documents are intended solely for the named addressee(s) and contain confidential information. If you are not an addressee, or responsible for delivering this email to an addressee, you have received this email in error and are notified that reading, copying, or disclosing this email is prohibited. If you received this email in error, immediately reply to the sender and delete the message completely from your computer system. From JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org Mon Sep 17 16:15:25 2012 From: JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org (Jesus Ellin) Date: Mon Sep 17 16:15:33 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <4E2EE0FF-3320-4553-9612-39C80E89E751@yumaregional.org> References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, , <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu>, <4E2EE0FF-3320-4553-9612-39C80E89E751@yumaregional.org> Message-ID: Sorry hit the sent button,, but as for this we are going to be required to be even more accurate with the uses of our tools for diagnosis. As for the LIS,, we are still creating the same LIS to do the same process we currently have and not help us transform into this new world of technology and application Digital Pathology,, all I can say is that why are we trying to make this thing do what a microscope does,, I have yet to understand that thinking. It is not a microscope, because it offers more than it. But no one has taken a look at what is the histologys usage of this technology Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Jesus Ellin" wrote: > Tim, > > I think basic histology is going to be manual,, but i see the explosion of technology sweeping our field. > > As Bill states it all about standardization,, but try getting the same H and E across the board,, thats not going to happen > > IHC will always we a bread and butter, but now since the government has limited the amoun t of IHC per patient, we are going to see a lot changes here. With only 4 IHC per patient > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:00 PM, "Morken, Timothy" wrote: > >> Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? >> >> Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. >> >> IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. >> >> The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and can converse with pathologist about the results. >> >> Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than histology. Completely different training required, though I have no doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job advertised (including histology!!)? >> >> Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. Seems a perfect match (google it!). >> >> Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! >> >> Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. >> >> Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those types? >> >> Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue how to train a histotech if they had to. >> >> All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting more involved with the entire system. >> >> >> >> Tim Morken >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM >> To: Judy O'Rourke >> Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology >> >> With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. >> >> I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: >> >> 1. Digital Pathology >> 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding >> >> A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: >> >>> Hello... >>> >>> In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article >>> "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and >>> trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH >>> Quality Control Committee, is quoted. >>> >>> Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted >>> the >>> article: >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page >>> s/Clin >>> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor >>> Clinical Lab Products >>> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office >>> 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | >>> www.clpmag.com >>> >>> Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Histonet mailing list >>> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >>> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This message is confidential, intended only for the named >> recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. >> Thank You. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ From mpence <@t> grhs.net Mon Sep 17 16:17:12 2012 From: mpence <@t> grhs.net (Mike Pence) Date: Mon Sep 17 16:17:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <4E2EE0FF-3320-4553-9612-39C80E89E751@yumaregional.org> Message-ID: <661949901A768E4F9CC16D8AF8F2838C03974EBA@is-e2k3.grhs.net> Just to shed more light on one thing: can you direct me to where it states that you can only bill for 4 IHC per patient. I am not questioning what you are saying, just want more info on this subject. Thanks, Mike -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 4:12 PM To: Morken, Timothy Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology Tim, I think basic histology is going to be manual,, but i see the explosion of technology sweeping our field. As Bill states it all about standardization,, but try getting the same H and E across the board,, thats not going to happen IHC will always we a bread and butter, but now since the government has limited the amoun t of IHC per patient, we are going to see a lot changes here. With only 4 IHC per patient Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:00 PM, "Morken, Timothy" wrote: > Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. > Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? > > Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of > grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. > > IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still > too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. > > The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the > antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they > have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and > can converse with pathologist about the results. > > Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than > histology. Completely different training required, though I have no > doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when > there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job > advertised (including histology!!)? > > Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, > and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology > comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe > someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. > Seems a perfect match (google it!). > > Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June > 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. > The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it > reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great > systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have > fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded > the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what > happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to > the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor > technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in > histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! > > Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors > providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your > choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I > understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - > instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. > > Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of > histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the > west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and > those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is > all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the > lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I > only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a > small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever > get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't > have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work > in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech > and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those > types? > > Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and > aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their > slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue > how to train a histotech if they had to. > > All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves > and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting more involved with the entire system. > > > > Tim Morken > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM > To: Judy O'Rourke > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or > information, but rather the outlook for our future. > > I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: > > 1. Digital Pathology > 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation > Semi to complete 4. Barcoding > > A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, > positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" > wrote: > >> Hello... >> >> In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article >> "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and >> trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH >> Quality Control Committee, is quoted. >> >> Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted >> the >> article: >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page >> s/Clin >> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 >> >> Thank you! >> >> Judy >> >> JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor >> Clinical Lab Products >> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office >> 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | >> www.clpmag.com >> >> Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message is confidential, intended only for the named > recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt > from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. > Thank You. > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org Mon Sep 17 16:25:25 2012 From: JEllin <@t> yumaregional.org (Jesus Ellin) Date: Mon Sep 17 16:25:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <661949901A768E4F9CC16D8AF8F2838C03974EBA@is-e2k3.grhs.net> References: <4E2EE0FF-3320-4553-9612-39C80E89E751@yumaregional.org>, <661949901A768E4F9CC16D8AF8F2838C03974EBA@is-e2k3.grhs.net> Message-ID: Go to CMS MUE's where only 4 IHC will be reimbursed for medicare patients,, granted you can add a modifier to justify usage, but you are not getting anymore money,, but this is been in place since last year and took into affect this year. Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:17 PM, "Mike Pence" wrote: > Just to shed more light on one thing: can you direct me to where it > states that you can only bill for 4 IHC per patient. I am not > questioning what you are saying, just want more info on this subject. > > Thanks, Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus > Ellin > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 4:12 PM > To: Morken, Timothy > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > > Tim, > > I think basic histology is going to be manual,, but i see the explosion > of technology sweeping our field. > > As Bill states it all about standardization,, but try getting the same H > and E across the board,, thats not going to happen > > IHC will always we a bread and butter, but now since the government has > limited the amoun t of IHC per patient, we are going to see a lot > changes here. With only 4 IHC per patient > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:00 PM, "Morken, Timothy" > wrote: > >> Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. >> Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has > not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off > - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as > well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the > question!)? >> >> Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of >> grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get > pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - > no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and > tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire > industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). > Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us > for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision > making by the person sectioning it. >> >> IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still >> too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we > do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. >> >> The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the >> antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they > >> have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and > >> can converse with pathologist about the results. >> >> Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than >> histology. Completely different training required, though I have no >> doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when >> there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job >> advertised (including histology!!)? >> >> Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, >> and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology >> comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe >> someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. >> Seems a perfect match (google it!). >> >> Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June >> 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. >> The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it >> reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great >> systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have >> fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded > >> the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what >> happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to >> the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor >> technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in >> histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! >> >> Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors >> providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your >> choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I >> understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - >> instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. >> >> Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of >> histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the >> west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and >> those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is >> all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the >> lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I >> only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a >> small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever >> get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't >> have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work >> in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech > >> and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those >> types? >> >> Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and >> aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their >> slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue >> how to train a histotech if they had to. >> >> All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves >> and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see > the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting > more involved with the entire system. >> >> >> >> Tim Morken >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus > Ellin >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM >> To: Judy O'Rourke >> Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology >> >> With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or > >> information, but rather the outlook for our future. >> >> I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: >> >> 1. Digital Pathology >> 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation >> Semi to complete 4. Barcoding >> >> A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, >> positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are > signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this > year? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello... >>> >>> In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article >>> "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and >>> trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH >>> Quality Control Committee, is quoted. >>> >>> Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted >>> the >>> article: >>> > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page >>> s/Clin >>> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor >>> Clinical Lab Products >>> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office >>> 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | >>> www.clpmag.com >>> >>> Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Histonet mailing list >>> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >>> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This message is confidential, intended only for the named >> recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt >> from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this > message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the > sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed > above and delete this e-mail from your computer. >> Thank You. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet >> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message is confidential, intended only for the named > recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged > or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are > not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is > strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, > or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender > at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number > listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. > Thank You. > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ From Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org Mon Sep 17 17:02:08 2012 From: Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org (Weems, Joyce K.) Date: Mon Sep 17 17:02:47 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: Tim, I really do appreciate your expertise and your ability to explain things so well! Cheers! j Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.weems@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's Hospital and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message, and reply to the sender regarding the error in a separate email. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:00 PM To: Jesus Ellin; Judy O'Rourke Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and can converse with pathologist about the results. Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than histology. Completely different training required, though I have no doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job advertised (including histology!!)? Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. Seems a perfect match (google it!). Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those types? Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue how to train a histotech if they had to. All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting more involved with the entire system. Tim Morken -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM To: Judy O'Rourke Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1. Digital Pathology 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > Hello... > > In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article > "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and > trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH > Quality Control Committee, is quoted. > > Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted > the > article: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page > s/Clin > ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > > Thank you! > > Judy > > JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor > Clinical Lab Products > 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office > 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | > www.clpmag.com > > Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ______________________________________________________________________ This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. Thank You. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:19:59 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Mon Sep 17 18:20:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, , , , , <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu>, , <4E2EE0FF-3320-4553-9612-39C80E89E751@yumaregional.org>, Message-ID: Tim, I really appreciated your insights and thoughts on this thread. I actually had someone tell me recently I was the only histotech they had ever known that had gone through a histology program. And Jesus, your statement " As for the LIS, we are still creating the same LIS to do the same process we currently have and not help us transform into this new world of technology and application", this is the greatest sentence that I have read in months, and exactly what I wish to correct somehow/someday, it's infuriating.I only wish the original link to the article worked for me, after reading these comments I'd really like to read it. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: JEllin@yumaregional.org > To: JEllin@yumaregional.org > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:15:25 +0000 > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > CC: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy.Morken@ucsfmedctr.org > > Sorry hit the sent button,, > > but as for this we are going to be required to be even more accurate with the uses of our tools for diagnosis. > > As for the LIS,, we are still creating the same LIS to do the same process we currently have and not help us transform into this new world of technology and application > > Digital Pathology,, all I can say is that why are we trying to make this thing do what a microscope does,, I have yet to understand that thinking. It is not a microscope, because it offers more than it. But no one has taken a look at what is the histologys usage of this technology > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Jesus Ellin" wrote: > > > Tim, > > > > I think basic histology is going to be manual,, but i see the explosion of technology sweeping our field. > > > > As Bill states it all about standardization,, but try getting the same H and E across the board,, thats not going to happen > > > > IHC will always we a bread and butter, but now since the government has limited the amoun t of IHC per patient, we are going to see a lot changes here. With only 4 IHC per patient > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:00 PM, "Morken, Timothy" wrote: > > > >> Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? > >> > >> Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. > >> > >> IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. > >> > >> The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and can converse with pathologist about the results. > >> > >> Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than histology. Completely different training required, though I have no doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job advertised (including histology!!)? > >> > >> Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. Seems a perfect match (google it!). > >> > >> Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! > >> > >> Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. > >> > >> Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those types? > >> > >> Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue how to train a histotech if they had to. > >> > >> All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting more involved with the entire system. > >> > >> > >> > >> Tim Morken > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin > >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM > >> To: Judy O'Rourke > >> Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > >> Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > >> > >> With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. > >> > >> I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: > >> > >> 1. Digital Pathology > >> 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding > >> > >> A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >> On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > >> > >>> Hello... > >>> > >>> In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article > >>> "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and > >>> trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH > >>> Quality Control Committee, is quoted. > >>> > >>> Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted > >>> the > >>> article: > >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page > >>> s/Clin > >>> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> > >>> Judy > >>> > >>> JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor > >>> Clinical Lab Products > >>> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office > >>> 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | > >>> www.clpmag.com > >>> > >>> Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Histonet mailing list > >>> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > >>> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > >> > >> ______________________________________________________________________ > >> This message is confidential, intended only for the named > >> recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. > >> Thank You. > >> ______________________________________________________________________ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Histonet mailing list > >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > >> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message is confidential, intended only for the named > recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged > or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are > not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is > strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, > or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender > at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number > listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. > Thank You. > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From b427297 <@t> aol.com Mon Sep 17 18:56:45 2012 From: b427297 <@t> aol.com (Jackie O'Connor) Date: Mon Sep 17 18:56:48 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cd31 In-Reply-To: References: <1735506837-1347696912-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-796649887-@b4.c10.bise7.blackberry> Message-ID: <8CF63473A3BC1EB-1A04-7ACAD@webmail-d059.sysops.aol.com> SC had a goat anti mouse CD31 and the goat croaked about 6 years ago. I have yet to see a better CD31 in FFPE mouse. -----Original Message----- From: Patsy Ruegg To: helen.ilsley ; histonet Sent: Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:38 pm Subject: RE: [Histonet] Cd31 Unfortunately we do not have an anti rat cd31 like the rat anti ms one, so what I have used in rat tissue is either CD34 (not that specific to endo cells, stains a lot of other stuff), SMA or F8 (these two pick up the more mature vessels but not the early ones), we need an anti rat CD31 like the anti ms one from Dianova. Years ago SC had a good cd31 made in a rabbit or goat that worked well in ms or rat tissue but the rabbit died or something and we have not gotten another good one yet for rat tissue that I know of??? Patsy Ruegg, HT(ASCP)QIHC IHCtech 12635 Montview Blvd. Ste.215 Aurora, CO 80045 720-859-4060 fax 720-859-4110 www.ihctech.net www.ihcrg.org -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of helen.ilsley Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:15 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Cd31 Hi Which endothelial marker would you use for rat tissue? I am really interested to see what you all say. Thanks in advance Helen Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From TJohnson <@t> gnf.org Mon Sep 17 19:06:37 2012 From: TJohnson <@t> gnf.org (Teri Johnson) Date: Mon Sep 17 19:06:42 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Message-ID: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists "fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality" is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC Disclaimer: The thoughts conveyed above are strictly my own and do not reflect in any way on my employer, co-workers, family members, deceased pets, and future ex-husbands. From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Tue Sep 18 00:58:18 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Tue Sep 18 00:58:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Message-ID: TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the "status quo", and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs "used to" require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT grads"trumping" for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional "learning", formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be "allowed" to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a frustration/dissappointment for me is when people will complain, but most won't bother to take any action ( not directed at you or anyone in particular, just expressing frustration with general lack of initiative)...anyhow your points are well taken. If we are to move forward as a group, we are going to have to get on the same page ourselves and put forth some consistent and concentrated efforts. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: TJohnson@gnf.org > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:06:37 +0000 > Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp > > Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: > > - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. > > - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? > > - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists "fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality" is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. > > - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. > > - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. > > Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC > > Disclaimer: The thoughts conveyed above are strictly my own and do not reflect in any way on my employer, co-workers, family members, deceased pets, and future ex-husbands. > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From mbmphoto <@t> gmail.com Tue Sep 18 01:30:19 2012 From: mbmphoto <@t> gmail.com (Maria Mejia) Date: Tue Sep 18 01:30:23 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C01001D13FC@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local>, <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D23B@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <3DE54BA7-343C-48C2-BCE4-5864CB78EEC4@gmail.com> Very interesting topics being discussed here by everyone!!! Laboratory automation has dramatically transformed the lab., specifically the clinical environment, but not on the same scale for the research based histology labs., - particularly those individuals working with larger free-floating sections. The big disadvantages I see with automation in the lab. is 1st. - the price & 2nd - improved design precision. I agree with Tim, there are various aspects to histology where automation will not be replacing the extensive hands-on used by histotechs anytime soon. Saying this, at the corporate level & particularly for firms involved in drug discovery & clinical diagnostics, automation & robotics have significantly increased productivity & lowered costs. Histology is the kind of profession that is incredibly challenging, it's always changing & it's...an innovative experience! Your mind has to be sharp & focused all the time because there's so much as stake. Histologists have always been very self-motivated, driven & determined! We have always had to be - it's a way to taking care of ourselves! I like the fact that often there is always another way of doing something, not just one way - histology is very much like that - discovering, imagining & learning - it pushes us to other possibilities regardless of the task - this is how we teach & inspire others into the field. I agree with Teri, lets start telling the world about histology & the people who work in this profession through articles & essays placed in wider publications like those mentioned by Teri. Maria Mejia San Francisco, CA On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Morken, Timothy wrote: > Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? > > Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. > > IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. > > The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and can converse with pathologist about the results. > > Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than histology. Completely different training required, though I have no doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job advertised (including histology!!)? > > Digital pathology is still "promising," just as it was 10 years ago, and will be "promising" 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. Seems a perfect match (google it!). > > Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! > > Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. > > Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the west coast. So, for the most part forget formally trained techs (and those that are formally trained should make the most of it!). It is all dependent on individual initiative and the training skill of the lab managers they work for. NSH is doing a pretty good job - and I only say that because while the various meetings are great, only a small percentage attend. The vast majority of histotechs don't ever get outside training, either because they don't know about it, don't have the money, or their labs don't promote it. A lot of techs work in labs whose managers consider advancement a bad thing - train a tech and they look for better pay elsewhere. How do you counter those types? > > Most pathologists trained these days are clueless about histology and aren't concerned about much else beyond ordering and getting their slides. Histology is a black box to them. They wouldn't have a clue how to train a histotech if they had to. > > All I can say on this is that everyone has to take care of themselves and their own advancement first. Hopefully those same people will see the value of training others in any way they can and promoting getting more involved with the entire system. > > > > Tim Morken > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jesus Ellin > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:22 PM > To: Judy O'Rourke > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. > > I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: > > 1. Digital Pathology > 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding > > A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > >> Hello... >> >> In Clinical Lab Products' just-released September issue, the article >> "Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology" addresses the challenges and >> trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH >> Quality Control Committee, is quoted. >> >> Please share comments on CLP's Facebook page, where I've just posted >> the >> article: >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/page >> s/Clin >> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 >> >> Thank you! >> >> Judy >> >> JUDY O'ROURKE | Editor >> Clinical Lab Products >> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office >> 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorourke@allied360.com | >> www.clpmag.com >> >> Follow us on Facebook, and follow me on Twitter at @editorCLPmag >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message is confidential, intended only for the named > recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail, fax, address, or telephone number listed above and delete this e-mail from your computer. > Thank You. > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Linda.Margraf <@t> cookchildrens.org Tue Sep 18 07:50:03 2012 From: Linda.Margraf <@t> cookchildrens.org (Linda Margraf) Date: Tue Sep 18 07:50:09 2012 Subject: [Histonet] job in Georgia Message-ID: <928719B9EBFA1C4686918B975FF8452881283211@CCHCSMBX04.CCHCS.LDAP> Here is a job I am posting for Pat....... A P Laboratories, Statesboro Georgia is seeking ASCP Histology Technician for full time, start date October 15,2012, competive salary and benefits. Please call email resume to pbriggs51@gmail.com or call 843-300-3001 ext 213. Pat Briggs A P Laboratories Director of Institutional Development From Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org Tue Sep 18 09:15:35 2012 From: Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org (Weems, Joyce K.) Date: Tue Sep 18 09:15:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Message-ID: Honey! We have been trying to get this group on the same page since the 70s. We're a bit closer but we're still singing different songs... fa la la la, la la la la... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.weems@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's Hospital and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message, and reply to the sender regarding the error in a separate email. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of joelle weaver Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:58 AM To: tjohnson@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the "status quo", and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs "used to" require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT grads"trumping" for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional "learning", formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be "allowed" to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a frustration/dissappointment for me is when people will complain, but most won't bother to take any action ( not directed at you or anyone in particular, just expressing frustration with general lack of initiative)...anyhow your points are well taken. If we are to move forward as a group, we are going to have to get on the same page ourselves and put forth some consistent and concentrated efforts. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: TJohnson@gnf.org > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:06:37 +0000 > Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp > > Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: > > - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. > > - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? > > - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists "fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality" is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. > > - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. > > - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. > > Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC > > Disclaimer: The thoughts conveyed above are strictly my own and do not reflect in any way on my employer, co-workers, family members, deceased pets, and future ex-husbands. > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). From algranth <@t> email.arizona.edu Tue Sep 18 10:47:21 2012 From: algranth <@t> email.arizona.edu (Grantham, Andrea L - (algranth)) Date: Tue Sep 18 10:47:31 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Message-ID: Teri, A few thoughts about your post: I totally agree with you about putting our name out there in publications other than "lab-centric" journals. I once had a bizarre idea that the president of NSH could appear with Matt Lauer on the Today show to promote Histo Professionals Day. Why not? Having gone thru a MLT program back in the 60's (I'm old) I can tell you that there once was a histology component in the training. I loved that part of the program. Maybe it would be good idea to welcome them into histology but have they done a really good job in promoting their profession? I think that the histotechs have done a much better job but we just don't have a very loud voice...yet. Andrea Grantham, HT (ASCP) Senior Research Specialist University of Arizona Cellular and Molecular Medicine Histology Service Laboratory P.O.Box 245044 Tucson, AZ 85724 algranth@email.arizona.edu Tel: 520.626.4415 Fax: 520.626.2097 From JMaslanka <@t> stpetes.org Tue Sep 18 10:49:46 2012 From: JMaslanka <@t> stpetes.org (JMaslanka@stpetes.org) Date: Tue Sep 18 10:49:54 2012 Subject: [Histonet] World Record & Happy Birthday Message-ID: World.Record. It's been 2+ weeks since I saw a " Please Remove" WOW & To all the active and former Air Force Histo Techs. Happy 65th B-Day Air Force. Joe Maslanka BS, CT,HT (ASCP) Anatomical Pathology Technical Supervisor St Peter's Hospital,MT 59601 (P)(406) 447-2406 (F)(406)444-2126 Give thanks for ALL things..... From Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org Tue Sep 18 11:30:26 2012 From: Timothy.Morken <@t> ucsfmedctr.org (Morken, Timothy) Date: Tue Sep 18 11:30:38 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Message-ID: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D36D@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Histology was taken out of the US med tech programs decades ago. At that time histo was all cutting, H&E and special stains. Since histotechs don't report out results they thought it was not really the same level as med techs so out it went. Most other countries have it as part of the med tech program and then the person specializes in their last year. That certainly makes for a more well-rounded tech. When I worked in Saudi the US techs were the least educated among all the techs from other countries working there. It was actually kind of embarrassing to see how far behind US techs were compared to their counterparts in other countries. Histotechnology is now pretty much similar to med tech in technological terms but we still don't report out anything. Of course, most of what med techs report out is just numbers from a machine. They are primarily responsible for ensuring the machine works correctly so are far more concerned about QC/QA and statistics. During lab week next year try getting a TV station into the lab for some shots. They always like tech stuff and just the mention of jobs may bring them in! (of course, the next question is, exactly how does a person get into histotechnology if there are no programs around?). Tim Morken Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center tim.morken@ucsfmedctr.org -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Teri Johnson Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:07 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists "fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality" is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC Disclaimer: The thoughts conveyed above are strictly my own and do not reflect in any way on my employer, co-workers, family members, deceased pets, and future ex-husbands. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org Tue Sep 18 12:06:24 2012 From: TNMayer <@t> mdanderson.org (Mayer,Toysha N) Date: Tue Sep 18 12:06:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE:Changing dynamics in histotechnology (Jesus Ellin) Message-ID: Being in HTL education I truly would love to expose, teach, and train entry level techs in the new and upcoming procedures. I am willing and ready to embark on this myself to assure my students get a good foundation in these areas, because they are the future. Alas, we have to remember that programs teach and train what is in Carson's text, because the BOC is based on that. In order to get the educational programs to teach those new and wonderful techniques, we first have to get it into the text, and then onto the exam. Our students come thinking that they will have the opportunity to learn these new techniques, but in reality the lab staff is too territorial to do this. Few want to train a new tech in these technique's, because they don't want to lose their job to them. Employers should also push continuing education for the employees, this would encourage them to learn new skills. If it is a part of the annual evaluation, then the ee's will have to complete it to get their annual raise. Get the info in Carson's and on the BOC and then the HTL trainees can learn this in a program. That would be the way to push this along, because if not then we will lose it to other areas. Toysha Message: 5 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:22:19 +0000 From: Jesus Ellin Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology To: Judy O'Rourke Cc: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1. Digital Pathology 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > Hello... > > In Clinical Lab Products? just-released September issue, the article > ?Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology? addresses the challenges and trends > you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control > Committee, is quoted. > > Please share comments on CLP?s Facebook page, where I?ve just posted the > article: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin > ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 > > Thank you! > > Judy > > JUDY O?ROURKE | Editor > Clinical Lab Products > 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 > office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 > jorourke@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com > From cforster <@t> umn.edu Tue Sep 18 12:38:10 2012 From: cforster <@t> umn.edu (Colleen Forster) Date: Tue Sep 18 12:38:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE:Changing dynamics in histotechnology (Jesus Ellin) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5058B182.5030802@umn.edu> Well said Toysha. I don't think they have even really incorporated IHC into the histology programs and that IS a routine technique now. We cannot promote in a field what we do not teach! Colleen Forster HT(ASCP)QIHC U of MN On 9/18/2012 12:06 PM, Mayer,Toysha N wrote: > Being in HTL education I truly would love to expose, teach, and train entry level techs in the new and upcoming procedures. I am willing and ready to embark on this myself to assure my students get a good foundation in these areas, because they are the future. Alas, we have to remember that programs teach and train what is in Carson's text, because the BOC is based on that. In order to get the educational programs to teach those new and wonderful techniques, we first have to get it into the text, and then onto the exam. > Our students come thinking that they will have the opportunity to learn these new techniques, but in reality the lab staff is too territorial to do this. Few want to train a new tech in these technique's, because they don't want to lose their job to them. > Employers should also push continuing education for the employees, this would encourage them to learn new skills. If it is a part of the annual evaluation, then the ee's will have to complete it to get their annual raise. > Get the info in Carson's and on the BOC and then the HTL trainees can learn this in a program. That would be the way to push this along, because if not then we will lose it to other areas. > > Toysha > > > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:22:19 +0000 > From: Jesus Ellin > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology > To: Judy O'Rourke > Cc: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. > > I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: > > 1. Digital Pathology > 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) > 3. Automation Semi to complete > 4. Barcoding > > A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, "Judy O'Rourke" wrote: > >> Hello... >> >> In Clinical Lab Products? just-released September issue, the article >> ?Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology? addresses the challenges and trends >> you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control >> Committee, is quoted. >> >> Please share comments on CLP?s Facebook page, where I?ve just posted the >> article: >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin >> ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 >> >> Thank you! >> >> Judy >> >> JUDY O?ROURKE | Editor >> Clinical Lab Products >> 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 >> office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 >> jorourke@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com >> > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From dmccaig <@t> ckha.on.ca Tue Sep 18 13:00:22 2012 From: dmccaig <@t> ckha.on.ca (Diana McCaig) Date: Tue Sep 18 13:00:36 2012 Subject: [Histonet] thickness of slides Message-ID: Can you tell me what thickness you cut your routine slides for H&E and immuno (in particular lymph nodes). Also, your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.....how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide? Thanks Diana From gayle.callis <@t> bresnan.net Tue Sep 18 13:00:31 2012 From: gayle.callis <@t> bresnan.net (gayle callis) Date: Tue Sep 18 13:00:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Message-ID: <002501cd95c7$806007a0$812016e0$@bresnan.net> Well, this honey has been on the same page since the EARLY 1960'S. I crossed over from the MT side into histology and never looked back. It was obvious very early on that histology was far more interesting than working as an MT, poor pay or otherwise. Way back in the Dark Ages, our MT training included histology and the ASCP MT registry exam tested us on histology. Becoming an MT simply led to histology, and the MT training in clinical chemistry, microbiology, parasitology, virology, hematology, etc., enhanced our knowledge for working in histology. Your (plural) discourses have been interesting, to the point and certainly no offense is taken about being an MT! It is admirable when histotechnicians go above and beyond their jobs and take the time pass on their expertise to present workshops, teleconferences, presentations and writing articles with hopes the written word is actually being read. Don't stop! Ignore the critics, the complacent! Educate! Gayle M. Callis MT, HT, HTL (ASCP) -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce K. Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:16 AM To: 'joelle weaver'; tjohnson@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Honey! We have been trying to get this group on the same page since the 70s. We're a bit closer but we're still singing different songs... fa la la la, la la la la... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.weems@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of joelle weaver Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:58 AM To: tjohnson@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the "status quo", and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs "used to" require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT grads"trumping" for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional "learning", formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be "allowed" to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a frustration/dissappointment for me is when people will complain, but most won't bother to take any action ( not directed at you or anyone in particular, just expressing frustration with general lack of initiative)...anyhow your points are well taken. If we are to move forward as a group, we are going to have to get on the same page ourselves and put forth some consistent and concentrated efforts. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: TJohnson@gnf.org > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:06:37 +0000 > Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of > you who can't read it from the original link provided: > http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp > > Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: > > - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. > > - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? > > - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists "fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality" is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. > > - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. > > - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. > > Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC From trathborne <@t> somerset-healthcare.com Tue Sep 18 13:05:19 2012 From: trathborne <@t> somerset-healthcare.com (Rathborne, Toni) Date: Tue Sep 18 13:04:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: thickness of slides In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3AD061FE740D464FAC7BF6B5CFB757071299AE85@smcmail02.somerset-healthcare.com> 4 microns and 3 for lymph nodes. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 2:00 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] thickness of slides Can you tell me what thickness you cut your routine slides for H&E and immuno (in particular lymph nodes). Also, your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.....how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide? Thanks Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Tue Sep 18 13:10:07 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Tue Sep 18 13:10:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <002501cd95c7$806007a0$812016e0$@bresnan.net> References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> , <002501cd95c7$806007a0$812016e0$@bresnan.net> Message-ID: Thank you Gayle, I appreciate your comments. And no, I definately did not mean any disrespect to MT's now or ever. I know they work hard too, and they have the same hurdles in many ways. We all deserve more recognition. I just wish all us laboratorians could unite and we would be a force to be reckoned with for sure. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: gayle.callis@bresnan.net To: Joyce.Weems@emoryhealthcare.org; joelleweaver@hotmail.com; tjohnson@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 12:00:31 -0600 RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Well, this honey has been on the same page since the EARLY 1960'S. I crossed over from the MT side into histology and never looked back. It was obvious very early on that histology was far more interesting than working as an MT, poor pay or otherwise. Way back in the Dark Ages, our MT training included histology and the ASCP MT registry exam tested us on histology. Becoming an MT simply led to histology, and the MT training in clinical chemistry, microbiology, parasitology, virology, hematology, etc., enhanced our knowledge for working in histology. Your (plural) discourses have been interesting, to the point and certainly no offense is taken about being an MT! It is admirable when histotechnicians go above and beyond their jobs and take the time pass on their expertise to present workshops, teleconferences, presentations and writing articles with hopes the written word is actually being read. Don't stop! Ignore the critics, the complacent! Educate! Gayle M. Callis MT, HT, HTL (ASCP) -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce K. Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:16 AM To: 'joelle weaver'; tjohnson@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Honey! We have been trying to get this group on the same page since the 70s. We're a bit closer but we're still singing different songs... fa la la la, la la la la... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.weems@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of joelle weaver Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:58 AM To: tjohnson@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the "status quo", and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs "used to" require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT grads"trumping" for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional "learning", formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be "allowed" to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a frustration/dissappointment for me is when people will complain, but most won't bother to take any action ( not directed at you or anyone in particular, just expressing frustration with general lack of initiative)...anyhow your points are well taken. If we are to move forward as a group, we are going to have to get on the same page ourselves and put forth some consistent and concentrated efforts. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: TJohnson@gnf.org > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:06:37 +0000 > Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology > > Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of > you who can't read it from the original link provided: > http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp > > Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: > > - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. > > - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? > > - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists "fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality" is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. > > - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. > > - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. > > Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC From vperez <@t> pathreflab.com Tue Sep 18 13:26:17 2012 From: vperez <@t> pathreflab.com (Vanessa Perez) Date: Tue Sep 18 13:26:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: thickness of slides In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Routine at 4, lymph nodes/bone marrows at 2, GI/prostate at 3 Prostate we cut 3 shallow levels..... pick up 2 extra slides from the second level as unstained which get used for p63/PIN cocktail (p504s/p63) if requested.... Each slide has one level...2 sections per slide Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:00 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] thickness of slides Can you tell me what thickness you cut your routine slides for H&E and immuno (in particular lymph nodes). Also, your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.....how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide? Thanks Diana _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From robinsoc <@t> mercyhealth.com Tue Sep 18 13:33:29 2012 From: robinsoc <@t> mercyhealth.com (Cynthia Robinson) Date: Tue Sep 18 13:33:38 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Changing dynamics in histotechnology In-Reply-To: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D36D@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> References: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD8863@EX4.lj.gnf.org> <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF01D36D@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <50587829020000AF0000A55A@nodcdmg2.no.trinity-health.org> I worked as a generalist for 4 yrs and then was in Microbiology for 8 yrs prior to moving to Histology in 1990. I have always felt the experience of working in the other areas of lab helped me understand the entire process, especially those involving fluids which were shared between multiple disciplines within clinical laboratory. We have an MT school and many of those students ask to spend time in Histology to observe. I appreciate their interest and willingness to learn how AP and Clinical Lab fit together. I have promoted the field by encouraging tours with local high school students taking Anatomy, Advanced Chemistry and Advanced Biology classes. Several of these students are now working as MTs, CTs and HTs. I now have a daughter interested in Histology because of the many trips to the lab to visit me. She will be moving to the KC area and will be completing her AS there. I just hope she can find a hospital willing to teach her Histology as there are no schools in the area. If anyone has a contact or would be willing to mentor please let me know. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Teri Johnson Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:07 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists "fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality" is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC Disclaimer: The thoughts conveyed above are strictly my own and do not reflect in any way on my employer, co-workers, family members, deceased pets, and future ex-husbands. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Cindi Robinson HT(ASCP) Mercy Medical Center Dunes Medical Laboratories 350 W Anchor Dr Dakota Dunes SD 57049 phone-712-279-2768 robinsoc@mercyhealth.com From Pat.Patterson <@t> propath.com Wed Sep 19 06:17:51 2012 From: Pat.Patterson <@t> propath.com (Pat Patterson) Date: Wed Sep 19 06:17:59 2012 Subject: [Histonet] IHC Position Dallas Message-ID: <82C7248978CB50469FD6BA68EBBEFE67088F3C9C@exchange.propathlab.com> IMMUNOHISTOCHEMISTRY TECHNICIAN ProPath, a progressive, CAP accredited, high-volume pathology practice in Dallas, Texas is seeking an Immunohistochemistry Technician for its' Immunohistochemistry Lab. Responsibilities include slide preparation (paraffin and frozen sections), IHC staining using our unique manual system, antibody titer preparation, equipment maintenance, supply/reagent inventory maintenance, and QC/QA recording. The ideal candidate will have a minimum of 4 years Histology experience with paraffin microtomy with a variety of different tissue types, prefer at least 1-2 years immunohistochemistry, immunofluorescence or in situ hybridization and frozen section experience. Working knowledge of IHC theory required, hands on IHC performance desired. If using an automated system we'll easily train you on our manual system. HT (ASCP) or QIHC desired. This is an evening position, Monday through Friday. ProPath utilizes leading technology and is a quality oriented pathology laboratory. Benefits include medical, dental, Short and Long Term Disability insurance, a matched 401K plan and more! Don't Follow the Leader! Join the Leader! To apply, please visit www.propath.com EOE Accessibility Accommodations If you require an accommodation to navigate or apply to our careers site, please send your request to accessibility@propath.com Pat Patterson, HTL(ASCP) Supervisor, Immunohistochemistry ProPath - The Leader in Pathology Services 1355 River Bend Drive Dallas, TX 75247 214-237-1700 x 2027 214-237-1730 fax To learn more about ProPath, please visit http://www.ProPath.com This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. From mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com Wed Sep 19 10:56:23 2012 From: mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com (Hale, Meredith) Date: Wed Sep 19 10:56:29 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Ohio HT Position Message-ID: <0E828EC51C7CC445A51E53F81B64E8C7034C60@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPartners.intranet> Great part time opportunities' for Histotechnician's in Canton , Ohio! Gastroenterology Associates is looking for certified HT's or HTL's to join their new laboratory . Candidate must meet the following criteria: * Meet CLIA Grossing Requirements : CFR 493.1489, http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/toc.aspx/ ,prior experience grossing GI specimens * HT ASCP Certified Duties include: * Grossing * Embedding * Microtomy * Staining * Ability to be flexible and take on additional duties' as needed This is a part time that offers a competitive rate and flexible hours. Interested applicants should contact Meredith Hale; phone 214-596-2219 or through email mhale@miracals.com Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)cm Operations Liaision Director and Education Coordinator Miraca Life Sciences 6655 North MacArthur Blvd. Irving , Texas 75039 Office: 214-596-2219 Cell: 469-648-8253 Fax: 1-866-688-3280 mhale@miracals.com From dunatrsd <@t> sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 19 12:03:20 2012 From: dunatrsd <@t> sbcglobal.net (dusko trajkovic) Date: Wed Sep 19 12:03:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Looking for a working microtome In-Reply-To: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE9C@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> References: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162D07DAE9C@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Message-ID: <1348074200.42349.YahooMailRC@web181701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hallo Histo colleagues, I'm posting this for a friend of mine who is looking for a working microtome. He works in an academic lab (San Diego area)?and not a lot of money available. Replies from various vendors are welcome as well as individual labs looking to get rid of some of their unused microtomes. thank you and have a good Wednesday Dusko From amber.mckenzie <@t> gastrodocs.net Wed Sep 19 12:11:23 2012 From: amber.mckenzie <@t> gastrodocs.net (Amber McKenzie) Date: Wed Sep 19 12:08:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Career step ladders in teh Histology lab In-Reply-To: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF010322@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> References: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF010322@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <5A33C952BB67F4468AF1F36D739212BC714CBA52@JERRY.Gia.com> I was wondering what career ladders where in your labs? What goals do employees have to meet before they get a pay raise/advancement in the lab/ or a new title? From Nancy_Schmitt <@t> pa-ucl.com Wed Sep 19 12:15:02 2012 From: Nancy_Schmitt <@t> pa-ucl.com (Nancy Schmitt) Date: Wed Sep 19 12:14:38 2012 Subject: [Histonet] thickness of slides In-Reply-To: <20120919170259.0928D1AA036@mail.pa-ucl.com> References: <20120919170259.0928D1AA036@mail.pa-ucl.com> Message-ID: <906B4DA90ED1DB4DB6C7E94D7CEE6C36220A3B19@PEITHA.wad.pa-ucl.com> Diana- We cut routine slides at 4 microns. Blocks marked for lymph node are cut at 2.5. Prostate needle cores: we cut three levels and save two unstained at each level. H&E has two sections - bottom section is always deepest - unstains are taken from in between the upper and lower section on the H&E. Nancy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:00:22 -0400 From: "Diana McCaig" Subject: [Histonet] thickness of slides To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can you tell me what thickness you cut your routine slides for H&E and immuno (in particular lymph nodes). Also, your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.....how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide? Thanks Diana NOTICE: This email may contain legally privileged information. The information is for the use of only the intended recipient(s) even if addressed incorrectly. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender that you have received it in error and then delete it along with any attachments. Thank you. From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 19 12:19:17 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Wed Sep 19 12:19:23 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Career step ladders in teh Histology lab In-Reply-To: <5A33C952BB67F4468AF1F36D739212BC714CBA52@JERRY.Gia.com> References: <761E2B5697F795489C8710BCC72141FF010322@ex07.net.ucsf.edu> <5A33C952BB67F4468AF1F36D739212BC714CBA52@JERRY.Gia.com> Message-ID: <1348075157.78689.YahooMailNeo@web121406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> My staff was evaluated?annually (on their hiring anniversary) and a salary increase was calculated based on their evaluation results. When a new position was open, "in house" employees were given preference if their qualification met the new position requirements. If an employee?reached a new certification level, they were eligible for any new position open in the next budget. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Amber McKenzie To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:11 PM Subject: [Histonet] Career step ladders in teh Histology lab I was wondering what career ladders where in your labs?? What goals do employees have to meet before they get a pay raise/advancement in the lab/ or a new title?? _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rsrichmond <@t> gmail.com Wed Sep 19 12:19:21 2012 From: rsrichmond <@t> gmail.com (Bob Richmond) Date: Wed Sep 19 12:19:26 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: thickness of slides Message-ID: Diana McCaig asks for >>your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.....how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide?<< I worked in one of the big prostate labs for a while, and this is what they use, and what I use when can get it. Cut onto slides suitable for immunohistochemistry. Stain slides 1, 3, and 5 with H and E. Hold slides 2 and 4 for possible immunohistochemistry, needed for at least one case in ten. I don't want more than one level on a slide, with a ribbon of at least two. When you embed, by the way, don't put more than two cores in a block, unless the cores are very short. Measure each core and record that in the gross. Make sure you can tell cases apart, since all prostate biopsies look alike in the gross. The big prostate lab used color coding of cassettes, slides, and labels, with a cycle of ten, so that (for example) if the accession number ended in -3 the cassette was always green. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Asbury Place, Maryville TN From CIngles <@t> uwhealth.org Wed Sep 19 14:16:56 2012 From: CIngles <@t> uwhealth.org (Ingles Claire ) Date: Wed Sep 19 14:21:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu><8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com><5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> <50573323.90104@umdnj.edu> Message-ID: <064F1ACBAE8A78469AE2E41D533D87E505A8A4@UWHC-MAIL2.uwhis.hosp.wisc.edu> Yes, but why take the chance. There are also other chemicals in the lab the picric acid can interact with to make it even more volitile than it was to begin with. Dynamite other explosives have the same problem. The older it gets the more degraded and unstable it becomes. One never knows if or when. I'd like to avoid traumatically amputating my arms if possible, thank you. Claire ________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Geoff Sent: Mon 9/17/2012 9:26 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards I am with Wayne on this one. While I have not tried to make it explode it does seem to me that the dangers are hyped beyond reason. Years ago an old bottle of picric acid would be discovered in a high school chemistry lab. Horrors! Call the bomb squad! So it was taken out to a large field, packed with explosives and BOOM! Of course it exploded, it was surrounded with explosives. Geoff On 9/14/2012 8:58 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? > From llewllew <@t> shaw.ca Wed Sep 19 14:51:28 2012 From: llewllew <@t> shaw.ca (Bryan Llewellyn) Date: Wed Sep 19 14:51:41 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Request for assistance Message-ID: <505A2240.3050904@shaw.ca> I have a paper ready for publication, but the reviewers suggested that some photographs should be included. Unfortunately, when I retired I moved to a new community and do not have access to a histology laboratory anymore. Unfortunately, I discarded all the slides I had stained developing the method, stupid I know. Is there anyone who could help and stain half a dozen sections for me. I have a microscope and digital camera so I can take the photos. The method is for visualising aldehydes after oxidation, analagous to a PAS etc. If you can help please contact me at llewllew@shaw.ca or phone 250-245-9825. Bryan Llewellyn From mkent <@t> dermpathlab.com Wed Sep 19 14:57:08 2012 From: mkent <@t> dermpathlab.com (Michael Kent) Date: Wed Sep 19 14:57:15 2012 Subject: [Histonet] SOX10 Message-ID: <27EB7FFB1A15F549B17F79B1A856C70B9D4B7A@dlcs-sbs1.DPLCS.intra> Hello, Has there been a successful response to the question on SOX10 on Ventana platform? We have very faint labeling on first tries. Thanks From TGoins <@t> mt.gov Wed Sep 19 15:01:49 2012 From: TGoins <@t> mt.gov (Goins, Tresa) Date: Wed Sep 19 15:02:01 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Picric Acid In-Reply-To: <064F1ACBAE8A78469AE2E41D533D87E505A8A4@UWHC-MAIL2.uwhis.hosp.wisc.edu> References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu><8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com><5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> <50573323.90104@umdnj.edu> <064F1ACBAE8A78469AE2E41D533D87E505A8A4@UWHC-MAIL2.uwhis.hosp.wisc.edu> Message-ID: A WEB site just for historical interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion We continue to use picric acid in the lab, but only as an aqueous or saturated solution. The chemical safety guys came out and carefully removed the bottle of "moistened" picric acid that we had on the shelf for several years - they were very excited as it was no longer "moist" - Montana is very dry. Tresa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Ingles Claire Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:17 PM To: Geoff; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards Yes, but why take the chance. There are also other chemicals in the lab the picric acid can interact with to make it even more volitile than it was to begin with. Dynamite other explosives have the same problem. The older it gets the more degraded and unstable it becomes. One never knows if or when. I'd like to avoid traumatically amputating my arms if possible, thank you. Claire ________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Geoff Sent: Mon 9/17/2012 9:26 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards I am with Wayne on this one. While I have not tried to make it explode it does seem to me that the dangers are hyped beyond reason. Years ago an old bottle of picric acid would be discovered in a high school chemistry lab. Horrors! Call the bomb squad! So it was taken out to a large field, packed with explosives and BOOM! Of course it exploded, it was surrounded with explosives. Geoff On 9/14/2012 8:58 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From b427297 <@t> aol.com Wed Sep 19 15:19:53 2012 From: b427297 <@t> aol.com (Jackie O'Connor) Date: Wed Sep 19 15:19:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Picric Acid In-Reply-To: References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu><8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com><5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> <50573323.90104@umdnj.edu> <064F1ACBAE8A78469AE2E41D533D87E505A8A4@UWHC-MAIL2.uwhis.hosp.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <8CF64BB433C65EE-1E98-CB8D@webmail-d005.sysops.aol.com> There is a lot of published data on the hazards of picric acid - although I don't think most histo labs have to worry about what they have in house for trichromes and fixation. It did cost me more disposal since we used to use hundreds of gallons a year for fixation of testes. Finding an alternative fixative was a good move for us. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Goins, Tresa To: Ingles Claire ; Geoff ; histonet Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 3:02 pm Subject: [Histonet] Picric Acid A WEB site just for historical interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion e continue to use picric acid in the lab, but only as an aqueous or saturated olution. The chemical safety guys came out and carefully removed the bottle of moistened" picric acid that we had on the shelf for several years - they were ery excited as it was no longer "moist" - Montana is very dry. Tresa ----Original Message----- rom: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] n Behalf Of Ingles Claire ent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:17 PM o: Geoff; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ubject: RE: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards Yes, but why take the chance. There are also other chemicals in the lab the icric acid can interact with to make it even more volitile than it was to begin ith. Dynamite other explosives have the same problem. The older it gets the ore degraded and unstable it becomes. One never knows if or when. I'd like to void traumatically amputating my arms if possible, thank you. laire ________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Geoff ent: Mon 9/17/2012 9:26 AM o: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ubject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards I am with Wayne on this one. While I have not tried to make it explode it does eem to me that the dangers are hyped beyond reason. ears ago an old bottle of picric acid would be discovered in a high school hemistry lab. Horrors! Call the bomb squad! So it was taken out to a large ield, packed with explosives and BOOM! Of course it exploded, it was surrounded ith explosives. Geoff On 9/14/2012 8:58 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? _______________________________________________ istonet mailing list istonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ttp://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ istonet mailing list istonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ttp://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Wed Sep 19 16:01:53 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 19 16:02:09 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Picric Acid In-Reply-To: References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu><8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com><5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> <50573323.90104@umdnj.edu> <064F1ACBAE8A78469AE2E41D533D87E505A8A4@UWHC-MAIL2.uwhis.hosp.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <505A32C1.8040807@pigsqq.org> Yes, Picric Acid was once a popular explosive and differs from TNT only in the substitution of -OH with -CH3 in the case of TNT. The Halifax explosion was dramatic. I understand the snark-hunting zeal of regulatory bureaucrats. I once upon a time had a job in such a group. We keep nitric acid and sulfuric acid and glycerine. Someone down the hall has some kieselguhr. But we aren't much worried that those are going to get together and cause a problem in the lab or on the number 11 bus. My question is this: Are there any documented cases of picric acid explosions in a histopath laboratory or any other laboratory due to dried out picric acid? (please note that we do keep ours wet) There is something like over a 100 years experience with picric acid in histopathology. Surely there was some anecdote of an explosion somewhere if there really is a hazard. On 9/20/2012 4:01 AM, Goins, Tresa wrote: > A WEB site just for historical interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion > > We continue to use picric acid in the lab, but only as an aqueous or saturated solution. > > The chemical safety guys came out and carefully removed the bottle of "moistened" picric acid that we had on the shelf for several years - they were very excited as it was no longer "moist" - Montana is very dry. > > Tresa > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Ingles Claire > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:17 PM > To: Geoff; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards > > Yes, but why take the chance. There are also other chemicals in the lab the picric acid can interact with to make it even more volitile than it was to begin with. Dynamite other explosives have the same problem. The older it gets the more degraded and unstable it becomes. One never knows if or when. I'd like to avoid traumatically amputating my arms if possible, thank you. > Claire > > ________________________________ > > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Geoff > Sent: Mon 9/17/2012 9:26 AM > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards > > > > I am with Wayne on this one. While I have not tried to make it explode it does seem to me that the dangers are hyped beyond reason. > Years ago an old bottle of picric acid would be discovered in a high school chemistry lab. Horrors! Call the bomb squad! So it was taken out to a large field, packed with explosives and BOOM! Of course it exploded, it was surrounded with explosives. > > Geoff > > On 9/14/2012 8:58 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > >> What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > From jnocito <@t> satx.rr.com Wed Sep 19 18:12:49 2012 From: jnocito <@t> satx.rr.com (Joe Nocito) Date: Wed Sep 19 18:16:13 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Picric Acid In-Reply-To: <8CF64BB433C65EE-1E98-CB8D@webmail-d005.sysops.aol.com> References: <1117827718.33905611.1347643305889.JavaMail.root@zm07.stanford.edu><8CF60EB8346F995-1EA8-6D5BB@webmail-d027.sysops.aol.com><5053D2A8.7030307@pigsqq.org> <50573323.90104@umdnj.edu> <064F1ACBAE8A78469AE2E41D533D87E505A8A4@UWHC-MAIL2.uwhis.hosp.wisc.edu> <8CF64BB433C65EE-1E98-CB8D@webmail-d005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004201cd96bc$49f05e40$ddd11ac0$@rr.com> When I was in Texas the second time ( I was there from 1981-1986 and returned in 1991. OK so I'm dating myself) , we were preparing a CAP inspection. I found a brown bottle way in the back of the chemical cabinet. Lo and behold it was the picric acid I saved from the previous go round. I said to my supervisor (Hector for those of you who know us) "Hey man, look what I found? Picric acid." We can't have this around, I'll go put in my truck". I put more water in the bottle and I carried it around a couple of days until after the inspection. Yep, miss those days. The things I do for my buddy. Joe -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jackie O'Connor Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:20 PM To: TGoins@mt.gov; CIngles@uwhealth.org; mcauliff@umdnj.edu; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Picric Acid There is a lot of published data on the hazards of picric acid - although I don't think most histo labs have to worry about what they have in house for trichromes and fixation. It did cost me more disposal since we used to use hundreds of gallons a year for fixation of testes. Finding an alternative fixative was a good move for us. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Goins, Tresa To: Ingles Claire ; Geoff ; histonet Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 3:02 pm Subject: [Histonet] Picric Acid A WEB site just for historical interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion e continue to use picric acid in the lab, but only as an aqueous or saturated olution. The chemical safety guys came out and carefully removed the bottle of moistened" picric acid that we had on the shelf for several years - they were ery excited as it was no longer "moist" - Montana is very dry. Tresa ----Original Message----- rom: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] n Behalf Of Ingles Claire ent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:17 PM o: Geoff; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ubject: RE: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards Yes, but why take the chance. There are also other chemicals in the lab the icric acid can interact with to make it even more volitile than it was to begin ith. Dynamite other explosives have the same problem. The older it gets the ore degraded and unstable it becomes. One never knows if or when. I'd like to void traumatically amputating my arms if possible, thank you. laire ________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Geoff ent: Mon 9/17/2012 9:26 AM o: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ubject: Re: [Histonet] RE: mouse testis in Bouins/Picric acid hazzards I am with Wayne on this one. While I have not tried to make it explode it does eem to me that the dangers are hyped beyond reason. ears ago an old bottle of picric acid would be discovered in a high school hemistry lab. Horrors! Call the bomb squad! So it was taken out to a large ield, packed with explosives and BOOM! Of course it exploded, it was surrounded ith explosives. Geoff On 9/14/2012 8:58 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: What danger of Picric Acid are you concerned with? _______________________________________________ istonet mailing list istonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ttp://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ istonet mailing list istonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ttp://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From LBUSTAMANTE <@t> cvm.tamu.edu Wed Sep 19 18:49:20 2012 From: LBUSTAMANTE <@t> cvm.tamu.edu (Bustamante, Lin) Date: Wed Sep 19 18:49:24 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Gastro prices Message-ID: <94B6DC15AAF2F046BF847D4C1CA9AAC9730AA23B@CVMMB02.cvm.tamu.edu> For Gastric Biopsy, I need to know how much other labs are charging for: - H&E slide - Unstained slide - Special stain Giemsa and Ab/PAS Thank you very much. Lin Bustamante. From talulahgosh <@t> gmail.com Wed Sep 19 19:12:47 2012 From: talulahgosh <@t> gmail.com (Emily Sours) Date: Wed Sep 19 19:13:03 2012 Subject: [Histonet] SOX10 In-Reply-To: <27EB7FFB1A15F549B17F79B1A856C70B9D4B7A@dlcs-sbs1.DPLCS.intra> References: <27EB7FFB1A15F549B17F79B1A856C70B9D4B7A@dlcs-sbs1.DPLCS.intra> Message-ID: We can't get sox10 to work on anything, let alone with a processor. We use chick tissue though. Emily On Sep 19, 2012 3:57 PM, "Michael Kent" wrote: > Hello, > > > > Has there been a successful response to the question on SOX10 on Ventana > platform? We have very faint labeling on first tries. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From W.E.J.Hoekert <@t> olvg.nl Thu Sep 20 02:45:46 2012 From: W.E.J.Hoekert <@t> olvg.nl (Hoekert, W.E.J.) Date: Thu Sep 20 02:46:03 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Pronase antigen retrieval References: Message-ID: <1190CB05C44B13409483514729C2FC3601F8428B@PAIT42.olvg.nl> Hello Eva, We are not using pronase anymore, but when we did, we were doing it at room temperature. (15 mg in 250 ml PBS, sigma P-5147). It worked fine. Our Trypsin antigen retrieval, we were doing it at 37C as follows: the evening before the retrieval, we put some PBS in the 37C stove, the next morning we dissolved the trypsin in the warm PBS and we put the slides in it (again in the stove, for 15 minutes). Good luck, Willem ________________________________ Van: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu namens Eva Permaul Verzonden: di 11-9-2012 19:36 Aan: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Onderwerp: [Histonet] Pronase antigen retrieval Hello out there in Histoland, I have to do some bulk runs with Pronase antigen retrieval. Up until now the number of slides have been so few that I have been able to do the antigen retrieval by dropping pronase on each slide and incubating them in a humidified chamber at 37C for 20min. I now have so many slides that my manager has suggested that I make up large amounts of the Pronase (250ml) and submerge the slides. She suggested placing the container in the oven earlier to allow the Pronase to get to 37C before I add the slides. How long is the Pronase ok to be keep at 37C before I use it? How long in advance can I place it in the 37C before it looses its ability to be used as an antigen retrieval? Thanks for all your help, Eva Permaul HTSR _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Disclaimer: Dit e-mail bericht is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde(n). Verstrekking aan en gebruik door anderen dan geadresseerden is niet toegestaan. Indien u niet de geadresseerde bent, wordt u verzocht de verzender hiervan op de hoogte te stellen en het bericht te verwijderen. In verband met electronische verzending kunnen aan dit e-mail bericht geen rechten worden ontleend. From Michelle.Perrins <@t> uct.ac.za Thu Sep 20 07:46:35 2012 From: Michelle.Perrins <@t> uct.ac.za (Michelle Perrins) Date: Thu Sep 20 07:46:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] methanol vs ethanol in processing Message-ID: <505B2C4B020000700022E68D@gwiasmtp.uct.ac.za> Hello all If tissue (from autopsy cases) has been fixed in 10% formal saline, will there be a difference in the stained section if: processed in methanol processed in ethanol Thanks Michelle Michelle Perrins Chief Medical Technologist Forensic Pathology Services Division Forensic Medicine Faculty Health Sciences University of Cape Town tel: +27 21 406 6001 fax: +27 21 448 1249 Email: Michelle.Perrins@uct.ac.za ### UNIVERSITY OF CAPE TOWN This e-mail is subject to the UCT ICT policies and e-mail disclaimer published on our website at http://www.uct.ac.za/about/policies/emaildisclaimer/ or obtainable from +27 21 650 9111. This e-mail is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If the e-mail has reached you in error, please notify the author. If you are not the intended recipient of the e-mail you may not use, disclose, copy, redirect or print the content. If this e-mail is not related to the business of UCT it is sent by the sender in the sender's individual capacity. ### From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 09:08:40 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Thu Sep 20 09:08:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] methanol vs ethanol in processing In-Reply-To: <505B2C4B020000700022E68D@gwiasmtp.uct.ac.za> References: <505B2C4B020000700022E68D@gwiasmtp.uct.ac.za> Message-ID: <1348150120.27250.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Probably not but processing with methanol is a very bad idea. It is highly toxic and tends to make tissues somewhat brittle. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Michelle Perrins To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:46 AM Subject: [Histonet] methanol vs ethanol in processing Hello all If tissue (from autopsy cases) has been fixed in 10% formal saline, will there be a difference in the? stained section if: processed in methanol processed in ethanol Thanks Michelle Michelle Perrins Chief Medical Technologist Forensic Pathology Services Division Forensic Medicine Faculty Health Sciences University of Cape Town tel: +27 21 406 6001 fax: +27 21 448 1249 Email: Michelle.Perrins@uct.ac.za ### UNIVERSITY OF CAPE TOWN This e-mail is subject to the UCT ICT policies and e-mail disclaimer published on our website at http://www.uct.ac.za/about/policies/emaildisclaimer/ or obtainable from +27 21 650 9111. This e-mail is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If the e-mail has reached you in error, please notify the author. If you are not the intended recipient of the e-mail you may not use, disclose, copy, redirect or print the content. If this e-mail is not related to the business of UCT it is sent by the sender in the sender's individual capacity. ### _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Norm.Burnham <@t> propath.com Thu Sep 20 11:10:38 2012 From: Norm.Burnham <@t> propath.com (Norm Burnham) Date: Thu Sep 20 11:10:43 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Immediate Opening for a Histotech at ProPath in Dallas, TX Message-ID: <82C7248978CB50469FD6BA68EBBEFE6708950AE5@exchange.propathlab.com> HISTOTECHNOLOGIST ProPath, a progressive, CAP accredited, high volume, pathology practice, located in Dallas, Texas, is seeking a Histotechnologist. In this position you will be responsible for embedding tissue specimens, microtomy of paraffin-embedded tissue, operation of automated stainer and coverslipper, equipment maintenance and record retention. We require at least 3 years of experience. The ideal candidate will have a high school diploma or equivalent. We prefer, HT, HTL (ASCP) registered or eligible. ProPath utilizes leading technology and is a quality oriented pathology laboratory. Benefits include medical, dental, Short and Long Term Disability insurance, a matched 401K plan and more! Don't Follow the Leader! Join the Leader! To apply, please visit: www.propath.com EOE Accessibility Accommodations If you require an accommodation to navigate or apply to our careers site, please send your request to: accessibility@propath.com ______________________________________________ Norm Burnham, MBA, MT(ASCP) Director, Anatomic Laboratory Operations ProPath - The Leader in Pathology Services 1355 River Bend Drive Dallas, TX 75247 norm.burnham@propath.com 214.237.1602 Office 214.237.1802 Fax 214.709.7127 Cell To learn more about ProPath, please visit: www.propath.com This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. From histotech <@t> imagesbyhopper.com Thu Sep 20 11:15:31 2012 From: histotech <@t> imagesbyhopper.com (histotech@imagesbyhopper.com) Date: Thu Sep 20 11:15:43 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Milestone Histos 5 Message-ID: <0462977B-2B81-494E-9330-95B014C8A5CC@imagesbyhopper.com> Does anyone know of a company who buys used Histology equipment and would give quotes for used Milestone Histos 5 microwave tissue processors. Thanks! Michelle From techmana12 <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 11:19:00 2012 From: techmana12 <@t> yahoo.com (Dorothy Glass) Date: Thu Sep 20 11:19:04 2012 Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) Message-ID: <1348157940.92352.YahooMailClassic@web114501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What are the steps to applying and receiving a health care license to work in florida for an HT or an HTL? I heard there is also a requirement or different fees to be paid for a position as supervisor. Curious in Georgia. From histotech <@t> imagesbyhopper.com Thu Sep 20 12:05:42 2012 From: histotech <@t> imagesbyhopper.com (histotech@imagesbyhopper.com) Date: Thu Sep 20 12:05:55 2012 Subject: [Histonet] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1348157940.92352.YahooMailClassic@web114501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1348157940.92352.YahooMailClassic@web114501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <095801B9-C4D4-43F2-85DE-FC668287293B@imagesbyhopper.com> Here are some links for HT/HTL licensure in FL. http://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/mqaservices/PractitionerServices.asp http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/ClinLab/clp_applications.html There is a lot of information on that page, not just the application, so you might want to spend a few extra minutes looking around. Further down on the page, you can find the link related to the application. I've made it easier for you, by including the direct link here: http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/ClinLab/ap_licensure.pdf The following URL is one resource for online CEUs. You can take the classes online, print your certificates and mail them in with your application, all on the same day! http://www.4ceuinc.com/home.asp?Profession=1 You will need to create a user id (using your email address is an easy way to remember your user name!) and password in order to see the next link. http://www.4ceuinc.com/courseDetails.asp?CourseId=344 This link takes you to the page for NEW FL licensee people. I would suggest you take the online courses, so you can print your certificate at the end On Sep 20, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Dorothy Glass wrote: > What are the steps to applying and receiving a health care license to work in florida for an HT or an HTL? I heard there is also a requirement or different fees to be paid for a position as supervisor. > Curious in Georgia. > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From plott <@t> uab.edu Thu Sep 20 12:48:04 2012 From: plott <@t> uab.edu (Patricia F Lott) Date: Thu Sep 20 12:48:13 2012 Subject: [Histonet] looking for old dip-n-dunk processor Message-ID: <372C4AF089B6AE48B36F064FA891FF78101879D8@UABEXMB3.ad.uab.edu> I want to find one of the antique tissue processors without any heat or vacuum. Anyone know of one? Thanks, Patty Lott, Laboratory Manager UAB CMBD Core Laboratory From ruhella.arjun <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 20 12:48:43 2012 From: ruhella.arjun <@t> gmail.com (arjun ruhella) Date: Thu Sep 20 12:48:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] How can i post a question in histonet? Message-ID: <5BE608E0-5E8A-474C-B528-83CA6D039AD3@gmail.com> Please let me know! Thank you Best, AR From brett_connolly <@t> merck.com Thu Sep 20 12:50:23 2012 From: brett_connolly <@t> merck.com (Connolly, Brett M) Date: Thu Sep 20 12:50:27 2012 Subject: [Histonet] How can i post a question in histonet? In-Reply-To: <5BE608E0-5E8A-474C-B528-83CA6D039AD3@gmail.com> References: <5BE608E0-5E8A-474C-B528-83CA6D039AD3@gmail.com> Message-ID: You just did. Brett -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of arjun ruhella Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:49 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] How can i post a question in histonet? Please let me know! Thank you Best, AR _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Merck & Co., Inc. (One Merck Drive, Whitehouse Station, New Jersey, USA 08889), and/or its affiliates Direct contact information for affiliates is available at http://www.merck.com/contact/contacts.html) that may be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete it from your system. From ruhella.arjun <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 20 12:51:47 2012 From: ruhella.arjun <@t> gmail.com (arjun ruhella) Date: Thu Sep 20 12:51:57 2012 Subject: [Histonet] How can i post a question in histonet? In-Reply-To: References: <5BE608E0-5E8A-474C-B528-83CA6D039AD3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <513C463E-2557-42AD-A715-55B2B2CB9FD1@gmail.com> Oh, i see. I did not know this is how it works. Thank you. Hope to gain knowledge from this site. Best, AR On Sep 20, 2012, at 1:50 PM, Connolly, Brett M wrote: > You just did. > > Brett > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of arjun ruhella > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:49 PM > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] How can i post a question in histonet? > > Please let me know! > > Thank you > Best, > AR > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains > information of Merck & Co., Inc. (One Merck Drive, Whitehouse Station, > New Jersey, USA 08889), and/or its affiliates Direct contact information > for affiliates is available at > http://www.merck.com/contact/contacts.html) that may be confidential, > proprietary copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely > for the use of the individual or entity named on this message. If you are > not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, > please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete it from > your system. > From SDattili <@t> stormontvail.org Thu Sep 20 12:59:42 2012 From: SDattili <@t> stormontvail.org (D'Attilio, Shelley) Date: Thu Sep 20 12:59:46 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Gastro prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, Lin asked about charges for H&E slides, unstained slides, etc. for gastric biopsy. Lin, I just want to caution you about asking for this information on an open forum such as this. I'm not up on all the legal issues, but I think you want to avoid any suspicion of price fixing. A source of information might be the reference lab with whom you already do busines. And of course, take into consideration the amount of reimbursement for the test. Thanks, Shelley D'Attilio MT(ASCP) Manager, Chemistry, Cytology and Histology Dept. of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine Stormont-Vail HealthCare Topeka, Kansas NEED A DOCTOR? Stormont-Vail's Health Connections can help you find a doctor accepting new patients. Call (785) 354-5225. ****************************************************************************************************************** The information transmitted in this e-mail and in any replies and forwards are for the sole use of the above individual(s) or entities and may contain proprietary, privileged and/or highly confidential information. Any unauthorized dissemination, review, distribution or copying of these communications is strictly prohibited. If this e-mail has been transmitted to you in error, please notify and return the original message to the sender immediately at the above listed address. Thank you for your cooperation. ****************************************************************************************************************** From kiran_g <@t> sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 20 13:08:43 2012 From: kiran_g <@t> sbcglobal.net (kiran_g@sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu Sep 20 13:08:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: cost/slide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <722228745-1348164525-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1992257229-@b1.c14.bise6.blackberry> Hi, I am also interested in finding average cost of h&e , ihc and special stains in automated lab setting. Please send response to me directly. Thank you, Kiran Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "D'Attilio, Shelley" Sender: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:59:42 To: Subject: [Histonet] RE: Gastro prices Hi all, Lin asked about charges for H&E slides, unstained slides, etc. for gastric biopsy. Lin, I just want to caution you about asking for this information on an open forum such as this. I'm not up on all the legal issues, but I think you want to avoid any suspicion of price fixing. A source of information might be the reference lab with whom you already do busines. And of course, take into consideration the amount of reimbursement for the test. Thanks, Shelley D'Attilio MT(ASCP) Manager, Chemistry, Cytology and Histology Dept. of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine Stormont-Vail HealthCare Topeka, Kansas NEED A DOCTOR? Stormont-Vail's Health Connections can help you find a doctor accepting new patients. Call (785) 354-5225. ****************************************************************************************************************** The information transmitted in this e-mail and in any replies and forwards are for the sole use of the above individual(s) or entities and may contain proprietary, privileged and/or highly confidential information. Any unauthorized dissemination, review, distribution or copying of these communications is strictly prohibited. If this e-mail has been transmitted to you in error, please notify and return the original message to the sender immediately at the above listed address. Thank you for your cooperation. ****************************************************************************************************************** _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From doolee <@t> shands.ufl.edu Thu Sep 20 13:27:22 2012 From: doolee <@t> shands.ufl.edu (Dooley, Elaine O.) Date: Thu Sep 20 13:27:29 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Her 3 Message-ID: <6193C53146742E4586DD4838F47F79AE0D30AE02@MSXMB02.Shands.local> Dear Histonetters, Has anyone had success with Dako's Her 3 antibody on paraffin sections? I am looking for a protocol to work on a DAKO autostainer or Ventana XT. I have tried the high ph Dako retrieval suggested but I am not getting much staining and I have ran a multiple tissue control block with many of the suggested controls in the block. I am going to try again using a different antibody diluent because the one I am using may not be compatible with the antibody. Does anyone have any other suggestions. ( I have tried 1:50 for 60 min primary antibody incubation) Elaine Dooley HTL Shands Teaching Hospital Gainesville FL 352-265-0111 From ruhella.arjun <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 20 13:39:37 2012 From: ruhella.arjun <@t> gmail.com (arjun ruhella) Date: Thu Sep 20 13:40:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Is specimen too cold for cryosectioning? Message-ID: Dear all, I have heard a little trick in cryosectioning where, if the specimen is too cold, one put thumb on the specimen and then cut immediately. I have a question related to this. Q1 = My cryostat temperature cannot be increased above -20C (a problem needs to be fixed). I usually tend to cut my specimen at ~-18C. As i was bound to cut the specimen at -20C, i was experiencing chattering or splintering in the sections. I though this was because the specimen was very cold. When i rub my thumb on the specimen for a while, i was able to get 2-4 decent sections, but the chattering started again. Is this a CONCRETE evidence that the chattering is due to specimen being cold? Q2 = Does sectioning difficulty can happen with as small difference as -2C (-18C vs -20C)? I heard ppl saying that -2C will not make any difference in sectioning. Hope to hear from someone soon! Sincere thank you! AR From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 15:02:21 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Thu Sep 20 15:02:24 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Is specimen too cold for cryosectioning? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348171341.19538.YahooMailNeo@web121401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Putting you thumb over the specimen will slightly increase its temperature but I do not think will improve how it cuts, besides you being exposed to whatever may be in the specimen, that is unfixed. Too cold specimens will be "tamed" by changing the blade angle and the speed of sectioning. A small difference of ?2?C should not have any effect. You have also to remember that friction from sectioning will alter the temperature of the specimen, as well as sectioning with the cryostat door open. Ability to section is the key. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: arjun ruhella To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: [Histonet] Is specimen too cold for cryosectioning? Dear all, I have heard a little trick in cryosectioning where, if the specimen is too cold, one put thumb on the specimen and then cut immediately. I have a question related to this. Q1 = My cryostat temperature cannot be increased above -20C (a problem needs to be fixed). I usually tend to cut my specimen at ~-18C. As i was bound to cut the specimen at -20C, i was experiencing chattering or splintering in the sections. I though this was because the specimen was very cold. When i rub my thumb on the specimen for a while, i was able to get 2-4 decent sections, but the chattering started again. Is this a CONCRETE evidence that the chattering is due to specimen being cold? Q2 = Does sectioning difficulty can happen with as small difference as -2C (-18C vs -20C)? I heard ppl saying that -2C will not make any difference in sectioning. Hope to hear from someone soon! Sincere thank you! AR _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From brannon <@t> alliedsearchpartners.com Thu Sep 20 16:14:41 2012 From: brannon <@t> alliedsearchpartners.com (Brannon Owens) Date: Thu Sep 20 16:14:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Histology Opening Near Fort Myers, FL Message-ID: Allied Search Partners is currently looking for a qualified applicant for a Histotechnician or Histotechnologist in southwest FL. Message me for details. FL Technician or Technologist licensed Previous experience with automated IHC Technical and QC protocols AA or BS/BA degree in life science preferred but not required 3+ years experience Benefits: Competitive salaries, Health, Dental, Life & Disability insurances, a section 125 plan, a 401K, FSA, ESPP and relocation assistance. To view a complete list of Allied Search Partners current openings go to: http://www.alliedsearchpartners.com/careers.php -- Brannon Owens Recruitment Manager Allied Search Partners LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/brannon-owens/28/528/823 http://www.alliedsearchpartners.com T: 888.388.7571 ext. 106 F: 888.388.7572 From TJohnson <@t> gnf.org Thu Sep 20 16:21:34 2012 From: TJohnson <@t> gnf.org (Teri Johnson) Date: Thu Sep 20 16:21:39 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Is specimen too cold for cryosectioning? Message-ID: <9F3CFEE76E51B64991C7485270890B400CDD903C@EX4.lj.gnf.org> Hi Arjun, In my experience, 2 degrees C can make a huge difference in the ability to section something well. We have a unit that can set the specimen/object temperature separately from the chamber temp and when having difficulty I start making temperature adjustments 1-2 degrees at a time. I think that cutting temperature is too cold when your tissue sample shatters when sectioning (depending too on the thickness). If you can rub your thumb across it and you get a few decent sections, the warming of the specimen likely explains it. Teri Johnson, HT(ASCP)QIHC GNF Histology Lab Manager Genomics Institute of the Novartis Research Foundation 858-332-4752 From kim.tournear <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 16:46:04 2012 From: kim.tournear <@t> yahoo.com (Kim Tournear) Date: Thu Sep 20 16:46:12 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Milestone Histos 5 In-Reply-To: <0462977B-2B81-494E-9330-95B014C8A5CC@imagesbyhopper.com> References: <0462977B-2B81-494E-9330-95B014C8A5CC@imagesbyhopper.com> Message-ID: <8BE88FE9-A077-4C18-9033-641C45A63F09@yahoo.com> IMEB buys and refurbishes equipment for resale. Sent from the iPhone of Kim Tournear ?? On Sep 20, 2012, at 11:15 AM, "histotech@imagesbyhopper.com" wrote: > Does anyone know of a company who buys used Histology equipment and would give quotes for used Milestone Histos 5 microwave tissue processors. > > Thanks! > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 20 16:54:04 2012 From: amosbrooks <@t> gmail.com (Amos Brooks) Date: Thu Sep 20 16:54:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Picric acid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, The Halifax explosion was indeed a very dramatic event. Anyone unfamiliar with the story should certainly read up on it. It was truly incredible. The link to the Wikipedia article was previously posted. A couple of important points about this story. The ship that blew up was carrying metric *tons* of picric acid. The ship also was carrying tons of other explosive material (nitroglycerine amongst others). If your lab has tons of picric acid (not 10-100 grams like most labs) and tons of other explosives, you might have cause for panic. If not, you likely have an extremely small amount stored under water or in a solution which poses less risk when used & stored properly than many other chemicals in a lab. I don't mean to say there is no risk, but I would say the concern is a bit overly dramatic. Like a carpenter, know your tools and how to treat them and they will serve you well. Otherwise ANY of the tools you have are likely to bite you. Amos From kiran_g <@t> sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 20 19:37:50 2012 From: kiran_g <@t> sbcglobal.net (kiran_g@sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu Sep 20 19:37:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] burned tissue artifact: need help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1608070634-1348187872-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-725867874-@b1.c14.bise6.blackberry> Hi all, Due to water contamination on the processor some of our cases had processing artifact with poor histology. Any suggestion to remedy this issue? We did reprocess the blocks but still not good. Any cutting or staining tips so slides can be readable. Thank you all, Kiran Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Amos Brooks Sender: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:54:04 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Picric acid Hi, The Halifax explosion was indeed a very dramatic event. Anyone unfamiliar with the story should certainly read up on it. It was truly incredible. The link to the Wikipedia article was previously posted. A couple of important points about this story. The ship that blew up was carrying metric *tons* of picric acid. The ship also was carrying tons of other explosive material (nitroglycerine amongst others). If your lab has tons of picric acid (not 10-100 grams like most labs) and tons of other explosives, you might have cause for panic. If not, you likely have an extremely small amount stored under water or in a solution which poses less risk when used & stored properly than many other chemicals in a lab. I don't mean to say there is no risk, but I would say the concern is a bit overly dramatic. Like a carpenter, know your tools and how to treat them and they will serve you well. Otherwise ANY of the tools you have are likely to bite you. Amos _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Barbara.Crill <@t> LPNT.net Fri Sep 21 07:06:32 2012 From: Barbara.Crill <@t> LPNT.net (Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net) Date: Fri Sep 21 07:06:37 2012 Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat In-Reply-To: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net> References: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net> Message-ID: <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> I would like to know what the consensus is on having a backup cryostat. Does anyone have a back up cryostat? I am nervous about not having a backup cryostat Antoinette Crill TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY X5451 From philip_manfre <@t> merck.com Fri Sep 21 07:15:09 2012 From: philip_manfre <@t> merck.com (Manfre, Philip) Date: Fri Sep 21 07:15:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: back up cryostat In-Reply-To: <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> References: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net> <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> Message-ID: <558A4571351D0C42BD923F403F4198C4A463D06FE7@USCTMXP51014.merck.com> If you use anything often enough, it is wise to have a back-up, if possible. Microtomes, and especially cryostats, tend to malfunction without warning and can leave you "stranded". We have a back-up that isn't ours, but we have access to it. That's another option. Make friends with someone else who has one and strike an arrangement with them. Philip Manfre, BA, HT(ASCP) Associate Principal Scientist Merck Research Laboratories WP45-251 PO Box 4 West Point, PA 19486 215-652-9750 215-993-0383 (fax) philip_manfre@merck.com -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:07 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat I would like to know what the consensus is on having a backup cryostat. Does anyone have a back up cryostat? I am nervous about not having a backup cryostat Antoinette Crill TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY X5451 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Merck & Co., Inc. (One Merck Drive, Whitehouse Station, New Jersey, USA 08889), and/or its affiliates Direct contact information for affiliates is available at http://www.merck.com/contact/contacts.html) that may be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete it from your system. From histotech <@t> imagesbyhopper.com Fri Sep 21 07:38:03 2012 From: histotech <@t> imagesbyhopper.com (histotech@imagesbyhopper.com) Date: Fri Sep 21 07:38:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: back up cryostat In-Reply-To: <558A4571351D0C42BD923F403F4198C4A463D06FE7@USCTMXP51014.merck.com> References: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net> <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> <558A4571351D0C42BD923F403F4198C4A463D06FE7@USCTMXP51014.merck.com> Message-ID: We have two back ups! :) We also have back up tissue processors and microtomes as well. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 21, 2012, at 8:15 AM, "Manfre, Philip" wrote: > If you use anything often enough, it is wise to have a back-up, if possible. Microtomes, and especially cryostats, tend to malfunction without warning and can leave you "stranded". We have a back-up that isn't ours, but we have access to it. That's another option. Make friends with someone else who has one and strike an arrangement with them. > > Philip Manfre, BA, HT(ASCP) > Associate Principal Scientist > Merck Research Laboratories > WP45-251 > PO Box 4 > West Point, PA 19486 > > 215-652-9750 > 215-993-0383 (fax) > philip_manfre@merck.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:07 AM > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat > > I would like to know what the consensus is on having a backup cryostat. > Does anyone have a back up cryostat? > > I am nervous about not having a backup cryostat > > Antoinette Crill > TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY > X5451 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains > information of Merck & Co., Inc. (One Merck Drive, Whitehouse Station, > New Jersey, USA 08889), and/or its affiliates Direct contact information > for affiliates is available at > http://www.merck.com/contact/contacts.html) that may be confidential, > proprietary copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely > for the use of the individual or entity named on this message. If you are > not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, > please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete it from > your system. > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From billodonnell <@t> catholichealth.net Fri Sep 21 08:40:34 2012 From: billodonnell <@t> catholichealth.net (O'Donnell, Bill) Date: Fri Sep 21 08:41:15 2012 Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat In-Reply-To: <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> References: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net> <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> Message-ID: <4940DF6D1C5FDF48931B6966AAEF93957A2B37@chimsx08.CHI.catholichealth.net> In the Navy, we had a saying "Two is one, one is none" If the cryostat is something you depend on, it will go down unexpectedly. You need two. The backup doesn't need to be new. Also you could have a relationship with a nearby hospital or MOHS lab that would allow you to utilize theirs in case of a sudden breakdfown. We have a backup that probably only gets used every 18 months, but it allows us to break down the main one for cleaning and still have the peace of mind that we are still "up" is a frozen should be needed. Good Luck - Bill -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:07 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat I would like to know what the consensus is on having a backup cryostat. Does anyone have a back up cryostat? I am nervous about not having a backup cryostat Antoinette Crill TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY X5451 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet This electronic mail and any attached documents are intended solely for the named addressee(s) and contain confidential information. If you are not an addressee, or responsible for delivering this email to an addressee, you have received this email in error and are notified that reading, copying, or disclosing this email is prohibited. If you received this email in error, immediately reply to the sender and delete the message completely from your computer system. From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Fri Sep 21 08:44:50 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Fri Sep 21 08:44:59 2012 Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat In-Reply-To: <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> References: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net> <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> Message-ID: <1348235090.88411.YahooMailNeo@web121404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Due to our work volume we used to have 3 cryostats, so there was always a "backup". Your decision on this subject should rest on your work volume. If it is not that heavy what you can always do is to coordinate with a near by lab to use theirs in an emergency. Nowadays cryostats are very reliable and very expensive so this is an investment to ponder cautiously. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net" To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:06 AM Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat I would like to know what the consensus is on having a backup cryostat. Does anyone have a back up cryostat? I am nervous about not having a backup cryostat Antoinette Crill TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY X5451 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Fri Sep 21 08:50:49 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Fri Sep 21 08:50:58 2012 Subject: [Histonet] burned tissue artifact: need help In-Reply-To: <1608070634-1348187872-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-725867874-@b1.c14.bise6.blackberry> References: <1608070634-1348187872-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-725867874-@b1.c14.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <1348235449.84394.YahooMailNeo@web121403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Unfortunately what you describe is irreversible. Try to get sections, treat them as gently as you can, and move on to the next batch of cases making sure that this does not happen again.Request "understanding" from your pathologists with this batch. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "kiran_g@sbcglobal.net" To: Amos Brooks ; histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] burned tissue artifact: need help Hi all, Due to water contamination on the processor some of our cases had processing artifact with poor histology. Any suggestion to remedy this issue? We did reprocess the blocks but still not good. Any cutting or staining tips so slides can be readable. Thank you all, Kiran Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Amos Brooks Sender: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:54:04 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Picric acid Hi, The Halifax explosion was indeed a very dramatic event. Anyone unfamiliar with the story should certainly read up on it. It was truly incredible. The link to the Wikipedia article was previously posted. A couple of important points about this story. The ship that blew up was carrying metric *tons* of picric acid. The ship also was carrying tons of other explosive material (nitroglycerine amongst others). If your lab has tons of picric acid (not 10-100 grams like most labs) and tons of other explosives, you might have cause for panic. If not, you likely have an extremely small amount stored under water or in a solution which poses less risk when used & stored properly than many other chemicals in a lab. I don't mean to say there is no risk, but I would say the concern is a bit overly dramatic. Like a carpenter, know your tools and how to treat them and they will serve you well. Otherwise ANY of the tools you have are likely to bite you. Amos _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Jonathan.Cremer <@t> med.kuleuven.be Fri Sep 21 08:57:35 2012 From: Jonathan.Cremer <@t> med.kuleuven.be (Jonathan Cremer) Date: Fri Sep 21 08:57:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Martius-Scarlet-Blue solutions shelf life? Message-ID: Hi Histonet, I regularly do MSB stains with homemade solutions. Both the Martius yellow and the methyl blue seem to have a good longevity (they are 9 months old now and I've put at least 250 slides through them) and I expect them to go strong for another while. The crystal ponceau 6R is a different story: I just threw away my second batch after the last two staining runs came out less intense than the slides before. So I am wondering now, is the shelf life of the red solution 3-4 months, is the dyestuff exhausted so quickly, or should I just add some more acid to the solution to 'rejuvenate' it? In short, has anyone been able to determine an end point for homemade crystal ponceau 6R solution for MSB staining? And the other solutions, for that matter? Many thanks and have a nice week-end, Jonathan --- Jonathan Cremer Laboratory Technician TARGID - KU Leuven From CIngles <@t> uwhealth.org Fri Sep 21 11:17:27 2012 From: CIngles <@t> uwhealth.org (Ingles Claire ) Date: Fri Sep 21 11:18:12 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: back up cryostat References: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net><7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> <558A4571351D0C42BD923F403F4198C4A463D06FE7@USCTMXP51014.merck.com> Message-ID: <064F1ACBAE8A78469AE2E41D533D87E505A8A9@UWHC-MAIL2.uwhis.hosp.wisc.edu> I think one of the most important things to have a back-up for is a processor. Claire ________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Manfre, Philip Sent: Fri 9/21/2012 7:15 AM To: Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] RE: back up cryostat If you use anything often enough, it is wise to have a back-up, if possible. Microtomes, and especially cryostats, tend to malfunction without warning and can leave you "stranded". We have a back-up that isn't ours, but we have access to it. That's another option. Make friends with someone else who has one and strike an arrangement with them. Philip Manfre, BA, HT(ASCP) Associate Principal Scientist Merck Research Laboratories WP45-251 PO Box 4 West Point, PA 19486 215-652-9750 215-993-0383 (fax) philip_manfre@merck.com From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Fri Sep 21 11:32:58 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri Sep 21 11:33:13 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome Message-ID: <505C96BA.9020006@pigsqq.org> We work in a previously underutilized histology lab. There was a sliding horizontal Sakura microtome, a functioning Thermo microtome, and a nonfunctioning Leica 5xxx (not a very fancy Leica). The center where we work has no interest in fixing the Leica microtome. I am supposing that it is merely dirty. Beijing is very dusty and the windows to the room leaked badly until we installed window seals. I would like to try to take the Leica microtome apart and try to clean it but I cant find the way to get it open. There is no hatch to open like on an old AO Spencer. We are told that it would cost way to much to have Leica service it. Does anyone have any experience with maintenance or repair of a low-end Leica Microtome and have any tips to share on how to open and clean it? Wayne Johnson Beijing. From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Fri Sep 21 11:55:24 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri Sep 21 11:55:46 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: <505C96BA.9020006@pigsqq.org> References: <505C96BA.9020006@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <505C9BFC.902@pigsqq.org> I think its a Leica 2125. On 9/22/2012 12:32 AM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > We work in a previously underutilized histology lab. > > There was a sliding horizontal Sakura microtome, a functioning Thermo > microtome, > and a nonfunctioning Leica 5xxx (not a very fancy Leica). > > The center where we work has no interest in fixing the Leica microtome. > I am supposing that it is merely dirty. Beijing is very dusty and the > windows to > the room leaked badly until we installed window seals. > > I would like to try to take the Leica microtome apart and try to clean > it but I cant find > the way to get it open. There is no hatch to open like on an old AO > Spencer. > > We are told that it would cost way to much to have Leica service it. > > Does anyone have any experience with maintenance or repair of a > low-end Leica Microtome > and have any tips to share on how to open and clean it? > > Wayne Johnson > Beijing. > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From Lynn.Burton <@t> Illinois.gov Fri Sep 21 13:57:54 2012 From: Lynn.Burton <@t> Illinois.gov (Burton, Lynn) Date: Fri Sep 21 13:58:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: <505C96BA.9020006@pigsqq.org> References: <505C96BA.9020006@pigsqq.org> Message-ID: <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5AF6@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> I would try Tech One Biomedical. They have a great staff and they have done all of our repairs for a long time. 1-866-497-3033 www.techoneweb.com Lynn Burton Galesburg Animal Disease Lab Galesburg, Il -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of E. Wayne Johnson Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:33 AM To: Histonet Subject: [Histonet] microtome We work in a previously underutilized histology lab. There was a sliding horizontal Sakura microtome, a functioning Thermo microtome, and a nonfunctioning Leica 5xxx (not a very fancy Leica). The center where we work has no interest in fixing the Leica microtome. I am supposing that it is merely dirty. Beijing is very dusty and the windows to the room leaked badly until we installed window seals. I would like to try to take the Leica microtome apart and try to clean it but I cant find the way to get it open. There is no hatch to open like on an old AO Spencer. We are told that it would cost way to much to have Leica service it. Does anyone have any experience with maintenance or repair of a low-end Leica Microtome and have any tips to share on how to open and clean it? Wayne Johnson Beijing. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com Fri Sep 21 14:27:59 2012 From: jaylundgren <@t> gmail.com (Jay Lundgren) Date: Fri Sep 21 14:28:04 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5AF6@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> References: <505C96BA.9020006@pigsqq.org> <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5AF6@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> Message-ID: Um.....he is in Beijing. From mayallf <@t> wave.co.nz Fri Sep 21 14:47:10 2012 From: mayallf <@t> wave.co.nz (Dr Mayall) Date: Fri Sep 21 14:47:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Free pathology reporting software online - Endometrial carcinoma and melanoma proformas added Message-ID: THE FREE DIAGNOSTIC PATHOLOGY SOFTWARE PROJECT HAS PUBLISHED A NEW VERSION OF ITS REPORTING SOFTWARE. Free D Path version 2.1 is now available at www.FreeDP.org [1] You can test it online at www.FreeDP.org [2] or you can download it from www.FreeDP.org [3] to use on a local PC, Apple device or network. The software includes many enhancements to old version including: An endometrial carcinoma proforma based on the International Collaboration on Cancer Reporting (ICCR) proforma. An invasive melanoma proforma based on the International Collaboration on Cancer Reporting (ICCR) proforma. An improved breast carcinoma proforma based on the NHS Breast Screening Programme reporting guidelines. An improved process for extra work requesting and request management using visual process control. I would greatly appreciate any feed-back, particularly any comment on bugs or omissions; email me direct. Regards Fred Mayall Fred.Mayall@tst.nhs.uk [4] Links: ------ [1] http://www.FreeDP.org/ [2] http://www.FreeDP.org/ [3] http://www.FreeDP.org/ [4] mailto:Fred.Mayall@tst.nhs.uk From jsjurczak <@t> comcast.net Fri Sep 21 15:15:30 2012 From: jsjurczak <@t> comcast.net (jsjurczak@comcast.net) Date: Fri Sep 21 15:15:43 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2138303817.2022016.1348258530668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> As I said, I'm not sure they have anybody in Beijing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Lundgren" To: "Lynn Burton" Cc: "Histonet" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:27:59 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome Um.....he is in Beijing. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Masterson_John <@t> Allergan.com Fri Sep 21 15:26:26 2012 From: Masterson_John <@t> Allergan.com (Masterson_John) Date: Fri Sep 21 15:26:47 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Histology position in San Diego area Message-ID: Looking for experienced histo tech in San Diego area. IHC experience preferred. Please call 562 906-5227 and ask for Dr. Rubio. Thanks

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From Lynn.Burton <@t> Illinois.gov Fri Sep 21 15:34:02 2012 From: Lynn.Burton <@t> Illinois.gov (Burton, Lynn) Date: Fri Sep 21 15:34:11 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: <2138303817.2022016.1348258530668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <2138303817.2022016.1348258530668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5BAE@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> Perhaps they have a contact person since they do so much work throughout the US. From: jsjurczak@comcast.net [mailto:jsjurczak@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 3:16 PM To: Jay Lundgren Cc: Histonet; Burton, Lynn Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome As I said, I'm not sure they have anybody in Beijing. ________________________________ From: "Jay Lundgren" To: "Lynn Burton" Cc: "Histonet" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:27:59 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome Um.....he is in Beijing. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Fri Sep 21 16:09:50 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri Sep 21 16:10:06 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5BAE@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> References: <2138303817.2022016.1348258530668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5BAE@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> Message-ID: <505CD79E.1030602@pigsqq.org> Sakura has a great service team in Beijing. The guy who services the tissue processor came out promptly and was very effective and quite reasonable on his charges when we had trouble once. Some other companies are not so reasonable it seems. The lab had some work done on the Thermo microtome once when it developed some problem (before I was around). The charges were so high that the lab director says she would have been better off to junk the machine and get another. I am not sure what the problem was, though. Perhaps some major part was broken. For this reason of fear of the cost they are unwilling to repair the Leica. I am concerned that the Thermo will go out of service again and we will be stuck. On 9/22/2012 4:34 AM, Burton, Lynn wrote: > Perhaps they have a contact person since they do so much work throughout the US. > > From: jsjurczak@comcast.net [mailto:jsjurczak@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 3:16 PM > To: Jay Lundgren > Cc: Histonet; Burton, Lynn > Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome > > As I said, I'm not sure they have anybody in Beijing. > ________________________________ > From: "Jay Lundgren" > To: "Lynn Burton" > Cc: "Histonet" > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:27:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome > > Um.....he is in Beijing. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Fri Sep 21 16:27:08 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri Sep 21 16:27:23 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5BAE@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> References: <2138303817.2022016.1348258530668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5BAE@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> Message-ID: <505CDBAC.4020308@pigsqq.org> Tech One seems to be limited in scope to the US. Nice hearing from you in Galesburg. I practiced pig production medicine in Illinois for quite a few years. Doug Hoefling the former director and pathologist in Galesburg is an old friend and mentor of mine, but of course he is long since retired. Histopathology is not yet a well-developed tool for pig disease diagnosis in China. We are presently one of the few diagnostic centers in China, perhaps the only one that routinely does histopath on pig necropsy cases. On 9/22/2012 4:34 AM, Burton, Lynn wrote: > Perhaps they have a contact person since they do so much work throughout the US. > > From: jsjurczak@comcast.net [mailto:jsjurczak@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 3:16 PM > To: Jay Lundgren > Cc: Histonet; Burton, Lynn > Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome > > As I said, I'm not sure they have anybody in Beijing. > ________________________________ > From: "Jay Lundgren" > To: "Lynn Burton" > Cc: "Histonet" > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:27:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome > > Um.....he is in Beijing. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From LPaveli1 <@t> hurleymc.com Sat Sep 22 07:33:23 2012 From: LPaveli1 <@t> hurleymc.com (Lynette Pavelich) Date: Sat Sep 22 07:33:36 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: back up cryostat In-Reply-To: <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> References: <201209201705.q8KH5OeQ029038@NADCLZMSGPMG01C.medcity.net>, <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C40B2A5@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> Message-ID: <89F4666A496DC949A819ECC40E11C867BF5611F6@EXCHANGEMB1.hmc.hurleymc.com> Our back up died, and administration, in a thought of saving money, decided to not get it repaired as we only get about 5 frozens/week. Well, I got called in on a Saturday for a frozen, and, yup, you guessed it.......the brand new one was room temperature!! (housekeeping mistakenly turned it off) I turned it on, ran and put the blade holder in the -70 freezer in blood bank, the blades in our histobath (isopentane freezer) and prayed for an hour until the frozen came down. I could only get about 2 swipes on the tissue before it started sliding off the chuck! Removed it and re-froze it until I was able to get a section!! What a day. Administration decided to repair the back up!! I vote for a back up! Lynette ________________________________________ From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] on behalf of Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net [Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net] Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:06 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] back up cryostat I would like to know what the consensus is on having a backup cryostat. Does anyone have a back up cryostat? I am nervous about not having a backup cryostat Antoinette Crill TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY X5451 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From liz <@t> premierlab.com Sat Sep 22 11:06:30 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Sat Sep 22 11:06:40 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Her 3 In-Reply-To: <6193C53146742E4586DD4838F47F79AE0D30AE02@MSXMB02.Shands.local> Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162DCF5519D@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Elaine We have had success with the Dako antibody on human tumors in mouse xenograft tissue, we used pH9 for retrieval. Since we were working in a mouse background we utilized a mouse on mouse detection system from MaxVision it worked well in our hands at 1:10 dilution for 30 minutes at room temp on the dako stainer. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Dooley, Elaine O. Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:27 PM To: histonet (histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu) Subject: [Histonet] Her 3 Dear Histonetters, Has anyone had success with Dako's Her 3 antibody on paraffin sections? I am looking for a protocol to work on a DAKO autostainer or Ventana XT. I have tried the high ph Dako retrieval suggested but I am not getting much staining and I have ran a multiple tissue control block with many of the suggested controls in the block. I am going to try again using a different antibody diluent because the one I am using may not be compatible with the antibody. Does anyone have any other suggestions. ( I have tried 1:50 for 60 min primary antibody incubation) Elaine Dooley HTL Shands Teaching Hospital Gainesville FL 352-265-0111 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From dahui_you <@t> yahoo.com Sun Sep 23 00:20:16 2012 From: dahui_you <@t> yahoo.com (Dahui You) Date: Sun Sep 23 00:20:25 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re:.. Message-ID: <1348377616.73121.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web35708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Have a nice day! http://gmidistribuidora.com.br/cnbc19news.php?alinkFriend=5fyx From ewj <@t> pigsqq.org Sun Sep 23 07:52:53 2012 From: ewj <@t> pigsqq.org (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Sun Sep 23 07:53:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] microtome In-Reply-To: <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5BAE@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> References: <2138303817.2022016.1348258530668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4A6E2CACA1E017408EBA1B9911952CC006551B5BAE@IL084EXMBX214.illinois.gov> Message-ID: <505F0625.4000402@pigsqq.org> I got it open and cleaned the wheel stop mechanism and the belt in front and it works good now and we now have a backup and my people are smiling. Thanks for everyone's helpful advices. Wayne Johnson Enruikang (Enable) Ag Tech Beijing On 9/22/2012 4:34 AM, Burton, Lynn wrote: > Perhaps they have a contact person since they do so much work throughout the US. > > From: jsjurczak@comcast.net [mailto:jsjurczak@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 3:16 PM > To: Jay Lundgren > Cc: Histonet; Burton, Lynn > Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome > > As I said, I'm not sure they have anybody in Beijing. > ________________________________ > From: "Jay Lundgren" > To: "Lynn Burton" > Cc: "Histonet" > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:27:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Histonet] microtome > > Um.....he is in Beijing. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From porathamanda <@t> gmail.com Mon Sep 24 09:39:40 2012 From: porathamanda <@t> gmail.com (amanda porath) Date: Mon Sep 24 09:39:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Colloidal Iron Staining Message-ID: I have been working on "validating" our colloidal iron stain for quite some time and am not getting the results our Docs want to see. I am using small intestine as the control and the goblet cells light up beautifully, however the subject tissue does not. It is my understanding that this stain is most useful to distinguish a chromophobe from an oncocytoma kidney tumor. I have seen the beautiful text book pictures...in the text books, and that is what our pathologists want to see on the slides.... Is anyone out there doing colloidal iron, and if so, would you share your protocols, and explain how your staining looks. I am using the Muller-Mowry technique with in house made reagents. We are considering trying a purchased kit, but wanted to pose this question to fellow histotechs first. Perhaps I am overlooking something simple. Any feedback is most welcome. Many Thanks, Amanda Porath, HT(ASCP) Bassett Medical Center Cooperstown, NY 13326 From abijag76 <@t> rediffmail.com Mon Sep 24 10:12:54 2012 From: abijag76 <@t> rediffmail.com (abijag ) Date: Mon Sep 24 10:13:06 2012 Subject: [Histonet] collection, trimming and embedding of rat mesentery for vascular changes Message-ID: <20120924151254.26253.qmail@f4mail-235-148.rediffmail.com> Dear fellow histonetters, I would like to know from your experience with respect to collection, trimming and embedding of mesentery from rat. Our pathologists are interested in light microscopic examination of blood vessels of mesentery from rat. The objective is to get as many as blood vessels in the sections to characterize the vascular changes in the mesentery. Could you please share with your experience in this regard? Thanks in advance Abi Jagannath From mmooreht <@t> yahoo.com Mon Sep 24 10:28:09 2012 From: mmooreht <@t> yahoo.com (Michelle Moore) Date: Mon Sep 24 10:28:12 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Colloidal Iron Staining In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348500489.56301.YahooMailNeo@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> At what thickness are you cutting the subject tissue? I have had challenges in the past with false negatives (on subject tissue not controls)?turned out we were cutting special stain slides too thin. Bump it up?a notch or two?& see if that?helps :) ________________________________ From: amanda porath To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Cc: amanda porath Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:39 AM Subject: [Histonet] Colloidal Iron Staining I have been working on "validating" our colloidal iron stain for quite some time and am not getting the results our Docs want to see. I am using small intestine as the control and the goblet cells light up beautifully, however the subject tissue does not. It is my understanding that this stain is most useful to distinguish a chromophobe from an oncocytoma kidney tumor. I have seen the beautiful text book pictures...in the text books, and that is what our pathologists want to see on the slides.... Is anyone out there doing colloidal iron, and if so, would you share your protocols, and explain how your staining looks. I am using the Muller-Mowry technique with in house made reagents. We are considering trying a purchased kit, but wanted to pose this question to fellow histotechs first. Perhaps I am overlooking something simple. Any feedback is most welcome. Many Thanks, Amanda Porath, HT(ASCP) Bassett Medical Center Cooperstown, NY 13326 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Valerie.Hannen <@t> parrishmed.com Mon Sep 24 10:34:51 2012 From: Valerie.Hannen <@t> parrishmed.com (Hannen, Valerie) Date: Mon Sep 24 10:34:56 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Slide Label and Cassette printers Message-ID: <450B7A81EDA0C54E97C53D60F00776C323163BD9FE@isexstore03> Good morning all... I have been instructed to put out "feelers" about Slide label and Cassette printers. Here is the deal, we are going to be switching from Meditech to Novopath in the near future. Our current situation is this...our current slide label printer is so old that there is only one in our facility and trying to get parts to repair it would be next to impossible, and we do not have a cassette printer at all. From what I understand from the Pathologists, is that they want bar-coding from start to finish. So, if anyone can give me a good lead on a system that has both a slide label printer and cassette printer ( one that prints directly on the cassette) which are compatible with Novopath it would be greatly appreciated. If you know pricing that would add to my day!! Thanks Everyone!! Valerie A. Hannen, MLT(ASCP),HTL,SU(FL) Histology Section Chief Parrish Medical Center 951 N. Washington Ave. Titusville, Florida 32976 Phone:(321) 268-6333 ext. 7506 Fax: (321) 268-6149 valerie.hannen@parrishmed.com =================== "This email is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately delete this message. Thank you" =================== From msjaswigue.alatan <@t> gmail.com Mon Sep 24 20:14:26 2012 From: msjaswigue.alatan <@t> gmail.com (jAswigueAlatan) Date: Mon Sep 24 20:14:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] PAN CKMNF116, picking up dendritic cells? Message-ID: Dear Histonetters, Has anyone out there experienced problem with optimizing PanCK MNF116 antibody? Our CKMNF116 stains dendritic cells on lymph nodes using Ventana protocol: CC1 - 8 mins, Ab incubation time 16 mins, Post primary peroxidase inhib selected. Basically, it should stain cytokeratins, but it stains dendritic cells as well. What would be the possible causes and solutions. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Joy From a.boanas <@t> epistem.co.uk Tue Sep 25 03:27:14 2012 From: a.boanas <@t> epistem.co.uk (Adam Boanas) Date: Tue Sep 25 03:27:31 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Frozen section artefact Message-ID: <176C97AAA877D24798ED7376652D0FD823338CCD04@SRVEXCH02.epistem.local> Hello, I have a puzzling artefact that I can't seem to correct in 7 micron frozen sections of rat and mouse Small Intestine. When completing an IHC run, parts of the section look great and the staining has worked fine - on other parts of the same section, the morphology is ruined by the appearance of several spindly striations or smears that run between individual villi and in some cases actually cover the majority of the section. Where this occurs the top half of the villi do not take up either the antibody staining or the Haematoxylin counterstain (which is taken up fine elsewhere). Sometimes the smearing looks so bad that it turns the section into a smeary, gloopy mess. >From what I can see the origin of the smears appears to be the nuclei as I have seen several small spindles from the nuclei leading into a larger "thread". We have thought about Lysis, Gut Mucus (have stained PAS to highlight), nuclear degredation. Could it be fixation? We air dry following sectioning and fix in Acetone / alcohol 3:1 for 5 mins. Any ideas would be great! Thanks in advance. Adam Adam Boanas Senior Research Associate Epistem Ltd 48 Grafton Street Manchester, M13 9XX This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com From Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org Tue Sep 25 09:04:03 2012 From: Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org (Richard Cartun) Date: Tue Sep 25 09:04:19 2012 Subject: [Histonet] PAN CKMNF116, picking up dendritic cells? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50618192.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> It should label dendritic cells since it reacts with cytokeratin 8. These cells have been shown to contain cytokeratin protein by immunoblotting. I use this reactivity as an internal positive control. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> jAswigueAlatan 9/24/2012 9:14 PM >>> Dear Histonetters, Has anyone out there experienced problem with optimizing PanCK MNF116 antibody? Our CKMNF116 stains dendritic cells on lymph nodes using Ventana protocol: CC1 - 8 mins, Ab incubation time 16 mins, Post primary peroxidase inhib selected. Basically, it should stain cytokeratins, but it stains dendritic cells as well. What would be the possible causes and solutions. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Joy _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Mandy.Bell <@t> chomp.org Tue Sep 25 10:01:22 2012 From: Mandy.Bell <@t> chomp.org (Bell, Mandy) Date: Tue Sep 25 10:02:03 2012 Subject: [Histonet] thermo tissue processor Message-ID: <87583127C45A5B4994B162C6743782651909EB94@EXMAIL1P.chomp.org> Hi, I was hoping to get some input on the Thermo Scientific STP420ES Tissue Processor (the one that looks like a washing machine). Is anyone using it? Pros/Cons? Mandy Bell HTL(ASCP) Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula 2 Harris Court Suite B3/B4 Monterey, CA 93940 (831) 647-4791 Confidentiality Notice: This is a transmission from Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula. This message and any attached documents may be confidential and contain information protected by state and federal medical privacy statutes. They are intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please accept our apologies and notify the sender. Thank you. From esarricks <@t> gmail.com Tue Sep 25 12:04:32 2012 From: esarricks <@t> gmail.com (Erin Sarricks) Date: Tue Sep 25 12:04:40 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Rat Brain Serial Sections Message-ID: Hi Histonet- I have to serial section rat brain slices through the entire block (5 blocks total per brain) for stereology. Since it is for stereology, I obviously need to minimize tissue loss while sectioning. Does anyone have any experience with using ammonium hydroxide to help with the dryness? Would you recommend soaking the block in ammonium hydroxide or wiping the surface of the block with it between sections? Also, what dilution would you use? Thanks in advance for your help! Erin Sarricks, HT (ASCP) Histology Team Leader USAMRICD Comparative Pathology Branch From JMyers1 <@t> aol.com Tue Sep 25 12:05:03 2012 From: JMyers1 <@t> aol.com (JMyers1@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 25 12:05:16 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Annual NSH-IHC Resource Group Meeting Message-ID: <3ed03.55f2c05a.3d933e3f@aol.com> Greetings All: For those of you who are planning to attend the National Society for Histotechnology's Symposium/Convention later this week, I just wanted to remind everyone that our group will hold it's only 'annual meeting' on Saturday, 9/29, from 12:00 to 12:45, (somewhere) in the Convention Center. If you'd like to attend, please stop by the IHC-RG's table, located in the Exhibit Hall, and pick up a copy of the tentative agenda. For those of you who do not plan on attending the S/C (as well as those who do), I will post a summary report on the IHC-RG's GoogleGroup 'listerv' after the meeting has concluded. I look forward to seeing many of you in Vancouver! Best Wishes, Joe Myers Chair, IHC-RG From eca9 <@t> georgetown.edu Tue Sep 25 12:21:16 2012 From: eca9 <@t> georgetown.edu (Eva Permaul) Date: Tue Sep 25 12:21:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Albumin and Epcam to stain mouse cell pellets Message-ID: Good afternoon, Has anyone used Albumin and Epcam antibodies to stain mouse samples? If you have would you please share the antibody information and conditions with me? Thank you, Eva Permaul Georgetown University From carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk Tue Sep 25 12:37:01 2012 From: carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk (Hobbs, Carl) Date: Tue Sep 25 12:37:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Frozen section artefact Message-ID: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738189B0F9D@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Assuming that you are fixing fresh-frozen tissue sections: Tissue is autolysing. Use Formalin for 10 mins or 1:1 acetone:alcohol for 10 mins. Imho, acetone is not a fixative..it's a delipidizer. 5 mins in that mixture is too short a time for the alcohol to be an effective coagulant fixer. However, a longer time in alcohol may well mask your Ag sites. I see this artefact in acetone fixed frozen sections, often. When immunostaining for MHCs in muscle, no fixation is required but, if DAPI/Hoechst is included....nuclear streaming will be seen. Always try several fixing fluids to get the best results on any new Ab. I may be wrong....happy to be corrected. Curious always, Carl From Barbara.Crill <@t> LPNT.net Tue Sep 25 12:30:06 2012 From: Barbara.Crill <@t> LPNT.net (Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net) Date: Tue Sep 25 12:39:29 2012 Subject: [Histonet] P16 and HPV In-Reply-To: <201209251704.q8PH4uQF009064@NADCLZMSGPMG01A.medcity.net> References: <201209251704.q8PH4uQF009064@NADCLZMSGPMG01A.medcity.net> Message-ID: <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C6185D1@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> I've been told that the HPV testing will be discontinued as of end of year. HPV expresses the P16 gene but so does other type of cancers associated with HPV. It is possible to have a P16 pos and HPV negative test. But is it not possible to have HPV pos and P16 neg. if HPV is positive then the P16 is also positive. So the P16 cannot be used to replace the HPV testing can it? Antoinette Crill TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY From AGleiberman <@t> cbiolabs.com Tue Sep 25 13:43:14 2012 From: AGleiberman <@t> cbiolabs.com (Anatoli Gleiberman) Date: Tue Sep 25 13:43:20 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Albumin and Epcam to stain mouse cell pellets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C010E0BC115@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local> Eva For mouse EpCAM I have used routinely during past 15 years G8.8 rat monoclonal antibody from Developmental Studies Hybridoma Bank. Concentrated supernatant (1:200 dilution for IF) works very well on 4% paraformaldehyde fixed frozen samples (or on sections from fresh-frozen samples post-fixed with formaldehyde). Epitope is very sensitive to alcohol, so even fixation with NBF instead of formaldehyde diminishes staining dramatically. I was told that this antibody works on formalin-fixed paraffin sections after HIER retrieval, but never got results comparable to frozen sections. Don't have any recommendations regarding albumin, I used home-made antibodies for that purpose many years ago. In general, paraformaldehyde fixation and frozen sections worked satisfactory. Classical approach for albumin and alpha-fetoprotein staining was to fix in Saint-Mary fixative (1% acetic acid in absolute ethanol) following routine paraffin embedding. Nevertheless, short fixation with NBF (4h at room temp, following PBS wash) and paraffin embedding works as well. Best results regarding liver secreted proteins (as well as all membrane and cytoskeletal markers) could be achieved on cryo-sections after fixation by perfusion with 4% paraformaldehyde in PBS. Anatoli Gleiberman, PhD Director of Histopathology Cleveland Biolabs, Inc 73 High Street Buffalo, NY 14203 phone:716-849-6810 ext.354 fax:716-849-6817 e-mail: AGleiberman@cbiolabs.com -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Eva Permaul Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:21 PM To: histonet Subject: [Histonet] Albumin and Epcam to stain mouse cell pellets Good afternoon, Has anyone used Albumin and Epcam antibodies to stain mouse samples? If you have would you please share the antibody information and conditions with me? Thank you, Eva Permaul Georgetown University _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From eca9 <@t> georgetown.edu Tue Sep 25 13:52:48 2012 From: eca9 <@t> georgetown.edu (Eva Permaul) Date: Tue Sep 25 13:53:22 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Albumin and Epcam to stain mouse cell pellets In-Reply-To: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C010E0BC115@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local> References: <77BC2EEB6AC66C49AEF794DC98BE314C010E0BC115@cbiolabs05.CBiolabs.local> Message-ID: Thank you Anatoli. Let me add some more info to my question. The samples are FFPE. Thanks, Eva On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Anatoli Gleiberman < AGleiberman@cbiolabs.com> wrote: > Eva > For mouse EpCAM I have used routinely during past 15 years G8.8 rat > monoclonal antibody from Developmental Studies Hybridoma Bank. Concentrated > supernatant (1:200 dilution for IF) works very well on 4% paraformaldehyde > fixed frozen samples (or on sections from fresh-frozen samples post-fixed > with formaldehyde). Epitope is very sensitive to alcohol, so even fixation > with NBF instead of formaldehyde diminishes staining dramatically. I was > told that this antibody works on formalin-fixed paraffin sections after > HIER retrieval, but never got results comparable to frozen sections. Don't > have any recommendations regarding albumin, I used home-made antibodies for > that purpose many years ago. In general, paraformaldehyde fixation and > frozen sections worked satisfactory. Classical approach for albumin and > alpha-fetoprotein staining was to fix in Saint-Mary fixative (1% acetic > acid in absolute ethanol) following routine paraffin embedding. > Nevertheless, short fixation with NBF (4h at room temp, following PBS wash) > and paraffin embedding works as well. Best results regarding liver secreted > proteins (as well as all membrane and cytoskeletal markers) could be > achieved on cryo-sections after fixation by perfusion with 4% > paraformaldehyde in PBS. > > Anatoli Gleiberman, PhD > Director of Histopathology > Cleveland Biolabs, Inc > 73 High Street > Buffalo, NY 14203 > phone:716-849-6810 ext.354 > fax:716-849-6817 > e-mail: AGleiberman@cbiolabs.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto: > histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Eva Permaul > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:21 PM > To: histonet > Subject: [Histonet] Albumin and Epcam to stain mouse cell pellets > > Good afternoon, > Has anyone used Albumin and Epcam antibodies to stain mouse samples? If > you have would you please share the antibody information and conditions > with me? > Thank you, > Eva Permaul > Georgetown University > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From Vickroy.Jim <@t> mhsil.com Tue Sep 25 13:58:02 2012 From: Vickroy.Jim <@t> mhsil.com (Vickroy, Jim) Date: Tue Sep 25 13:58:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit Message-ID: We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From vperez <@t> pathreflab.com Tue Sep 25 14:36:51 2012 From: vperez <@t> pathreflab.com (Vanessa Perez) Date: Tue Sep 25 14:36:18 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As far as lot to lot validation that's all we do. Use same control and compare both. Now validating a new detection kit is a whole different story. Here I just made a checklist of all the antibodies we do and had the doc sign off on each stain with the new kit. If you want you can do a slide of each with same control one with the iview and one with the ultraview. All depends on how your doc wants to validate it. Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vickroy, Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:58 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From mmooreht <@t> yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 15:30:13 2012 From: mmooreht <@t> yahoo.com (Michelle Moore) Date: Tue Sep 25 15:30:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Path reports Message-ID: <1348605013.22800.YahooMailNeo@web125102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Good afternoon Histoland! Anyone that is using Meditech AP module 5.6 please grace me with your method of transcription/dictation for your Pathologist. We just went live this year and it seems we have stepped back in time with this system. The voice recognition system we use in Radiology is not combatible with Meditech..ughhh! Thanks in advance for any help or direction! Michelle Moore Schneider Regional Medical Center 9048 Sugar Estate St. Thomas Virgin Islands 00802 From vavalos <@t> allergydermatology.com Tue Sep 25 17:11:58 2012 From: vavalos <@t> allergydermatology.com (Vanessa Avalos) Date: Tue Sep 25 17:12:07 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Xylene Free Process Message-ID: Hello, I have been processing our tissue (derm only) in our Shandon Excelsior using a xylene free process with Iso Alcohol. A few years back it was set up that way by a Thermo rep and it worked really well. I am now having issues and the docs seem to think it is a processing issue rather than the sectioning or staining. I was wondering if anyone else is using a similar process and if you would mind sharing your overnight program with me for comparison . Thank you in advance for any help! V.Avalos ADS Fax:602-277-2134 From jnocito <@t> satx.rr.com Tue Sep 25 17:34:54 2012 From: jnocito <@t> satx.rr.com (Joe Nocito) Date: Tue Sep 25 17:38:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009701cd9b6d$fc8b71b0$f5a25510$@rr.com> We are having a lively discussion about having 10 known positives and 10 known negatives to validate new antibodies. Many years ago we set up 5 and 5 even before CAP thought of the idea. This year's checklist added the 10 and 10 part, but it is up to the medical director. What is everyone else doing out there? We are using the Ventana UltraView detection kits. Everyone who uses these kits know how expensive they are. Is 5 and 5 sufficient or should go by CAP recommendations? Joe Nocito -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vanessa Perez Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:37 PM To: Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit As far as lot to lot validation that's all we do. Use same control and compare both. Now validating a new detection kit is a whole different story. Here I just made a checklist of all the antibodies we do and had the doc sign off on each stain with the new kit. If you want you can do a slide of each with same control one with the iview and one with the ultraview. All depends on how your doc wants to validate it. Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vickroy, Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:58 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From wdesalvo.cac <@t> outlook.com Tue Sep 25 18:00:08 2012 From: wdesalvo.cac <@t> outlook.com (WILLIAM DESALVO) Date: Tue Sep 25 18:00:13 2012 Subject: [Histonet] NSH Convention Symposium - Quality Control Committe Meeting Message-ID: The NSH is upon us and time to meet, greet and exchange. If you are attending and want to become involved in discussing and supporting Quality Improvement in the HIstology Lab, then attend the Quality Control Committee meeting on Saturday morning, September 29, 2012, 7:00 am - 7:45 am or stop by the committee table during exhibit hours. The committee will discuss:2012 Quality Management Forum - Creating the Quality Chain in Histology, Bethesda, MD, October 20, 20122013 Forum - format and speakersAsk NSH About Quality - process and supportQuality Management in Histology Project - sub-committee and contentTissue Control Bank Bring yourself and your ideas. Hope to see you at NSH and at the committee meeting. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP) Chair, NSH Quality Control Committee From contact <@t> histocare.com Tue Sep 25 18:01:16 2012 From: contact <@t> histocare.com (contact@histocare.com) Date: Tue Sep 25 18:01:22 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Have Blocks, Will Cut Message-ID: <20120925190116.7ar787dylck4csks@webmail.aplus.net> Hello, Histonetters, ? If you are in the South (specifically TN, AL, AR, MS,?GA,?KY),and?represent or know of a laboratory?that may be short or inadeqautely staffed, I can help. I care about timely patient care and?helping to produce?diagnosis as timely as possible. ? If a need exists for a high volume of slides to be produced in a short amount of time, I can help and am available to assist on your busiest days to keep stress and fatigue to a minimum on your regular employees. ? Embedding with correct orientation-- 120+blocks/per hour Microtomy fully-faced block with precision and wrinkle-free sections-- 90-100+/per hour ? Confidentiality is important and your reasons for needing assistance will not be shared or disclosed. ? Photos of work can be viewed at www.HistoCare.com ? From liz <@t> premierlab.com Tue Sep 25 18:34:35 2012 From: liz <@t> premierlab.com (Elizabeth Chlipala) Date: Tue Sep 25 18:34:39 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit In-Reply-To: <009701cd9b6d$fc8b71b0$f5a25510$@rr.com> Message-ID: <14E2C6176416974295479C64A11CB9AE0162E46B8364@SBS2K8.premierlab.local> Joe I believe that is for initial validation, you can also place multiple tissues on a slide. For new lot numbers of a previously validated protocol I would use only 3 tissues, strong positive, moderate to weak positive and then negative, these can all be placed on one slide. I'm not in clinical but that's also the recommendations from the CAP paper on standardization in IHC. Liz Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Manager Premier Laboratory, LLC PO Box 18592 Boulder, CO 80308-1592 (303) 682-3949 office (303) 682-9060 fax (303) 881-0763 cell www.premierlab.com Ship to address: 1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E Longmont, CO 80504 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Nocito Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:35 PM To: 'Vanessa Perez'; 'Vickroy, Jim'; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are having a lively discussion about having 10 known positives and 10 known negatives to validate new antibodies. Many years ago we set up 5 and 5 even before CAP thought of the idea. This year's checklist added the 10 and 10 part, but it is up to the medical director. What is everyone else doing out there? We are using the Ventana UltraView detection kits. Everyone who uses these kits know how expensive they are. Is 5 and 5 sufficient or should go by CAP recommendations? Joe Nocito -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vanessa Perez Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:37 PM To: Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit As far as lot to lot validation that's all we do. Use same control and compare both. Now validating a new detection kit is a whole different story. Here I just made a checklist of all the antibodies we do and had the doc sign off on each stain with the new kit. If you want you can do a slide of each with same control one with the iview and one with the ultraview. All depends on how your doc wants to validate it. Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vickroy, Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:58 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From a.boanas <@t> epistem.co.uk Wed Sep 26 01:28:37 2012 From: a.boanas <@t> epistem.co.uk (Adam Boanas) Date: Wed Sep 26 01:29:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Frozen section artefact In-Reply-To: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738189B0F9D@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> References: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738189B0F9D@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <176C97AAA877D24798ED7376652D0FD823338CCE29@SRVEXCH02.epistem.local> Thanks for the reply - Previously I was going directly from the fixative to the PBS. Yesterday I tried air drying the sections for 30mins prior to PBS and the sections looked much better. Will try increasing the alcohol content as you suggest. Adam -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hobbs, Carl Sent: 25 September 2012 18:37 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Frozen section artefact Assuming that you are fixing fresh-frozen tissue sections: Tissue is autolysing. Use Formalin for 10 mins or 1:1 acetone:alcohol for 10 mins. Imho, acetone is not a fixative..it's a delipidizer. 5 mins in that mixture is too short a time for the alcohol to be an effective coagulant fixer. However, a longer time in alcohol may well mask your Ag sites. I see this artefact in acetone fixed frozen sections, often. When immunostaining for MHCs in muscle, no fixation is required but, if DAPI/Hoechst is included....nuclear streaming will be seen. Always try several fixing fluids to get the best results on any new Ab. I may be wrong....happy to be corrected. Curious always, Carl _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com From a.boanas <@t> epistem.co.uk Wed Sep 26 01:37:26 2012 From: a.boanas <@t> epistem.co.uk (Adam Boanas) Date: Wed Sep 26 01:38:09 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Frozen section artefact In-Reply-To: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738189B0F9D@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> References: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738189B0F9D@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <176C97AAA877D24798ED7376652D0FD823338CCE2C@SRVEXCH02.epistem.local> Hi again, In your opinion is it better to fix frozen sections prior to storage in -80 or following removal from -80 prior to a run? Thanks Adam -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hobbs, Carl Sent: 25 September 2012 18:37 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Frozen section artefact Assuming that you are fixing fresh-frozen tissue sections: Tissue is autolysing. Use Formalin for 10 mins or 1:1 acetone:alcohol for 10 mins. Imho, acetone is not a fixative..it's a delipidizer. 5 mins in that mixture is too short a time for the alcohol to be an effective coagulant fixer. However, a longer time in alcohol may well mask your Ag sites. I see this artefact in acetone fixed frozen sections, often. When immunostaining for MHCs in muscle, no fixation is required but, if DAPI/Hoechst is included....nuclear streaming will be seen. Always try several fixing fluids to get the best results on any new Ab. I may be wrong....happy to be corrected. Curious always, Carl _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com From jluis.palazon <@t> icman.csic.es Wed Sep 26 04:56:24 2012 From: jluis.palazon <@t> icman.csic.es (Jose Luis Palazon Fernandez) Date: Wed Sep 26 04:56:33 2012 Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks Message-ID: <19151880.1900.1348653384989.JavaMail.tomcat@draco> Dear List-members I'm trying to cut some fish muscle samples (along with skin and some bone tissues) embedded in paraffin (fixed in Bouin's fixative and decalcified with EDTA). I find it very difficult to cut these blocks and I would like to know, based in your experience, what tissue softening agent do you recomend to solve this problem. Many thanks in advance greetings, Jos? Luis Dr. Jos? Luis Palaz?n Fern?ndez Instituto de Investigaciones Cient?ficas Universidad de Oriente Boca del Rio-Isla Margarita-Venezuela Direccion actual: Instituto de Ciencias Marinas de Andalucia-CSIC Campus universitario Rio San Pedro, 11510, Puerto Real, C?diz, Espa?a email: jluis.palazon@icman.csic.es; jose.palazon@ne.udo.edu.ve tlf: +34-956832612; fax: +34-956834701; cell: +34-600487100 From settembr <@t> umdnj.edu Wed Sep 26 06:22:06 2012 From: settembr <@t> umdnj.edu (Settembre, Dana) Date: Wed Sep 26 06:22:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: P16 and HPV In-Reply-To: <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C6185D1@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> References: <201209251704.q8PH4uQF009064@NADCLZMSGPMG01A.medcity.net> <7DA79EBDBD92BF408EF392413737878D397C6185D1@NADCWPMSGCMS01.hca.corpad.net> Message-ID: WHO is going to discontinue HPV testing? Dana Settembre University Hospital -UMDNJ Newark, NJ USA -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara.Crill@LPNT.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:30 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] P16 and HPV I've been told that the HPV testing will be discontinued as of end of year. HPV expresses the P16 gene but so does other type of cancers associated with HPV. It is possible to have a P16 pos and HPV negative test. But is it not possible to have HPV pos and P16 neg. if HPV is positive then the P16 is also positive. So the P16 cannot be used to replace the HPV testing can it? Antoinette Crill TEAM LEADER ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From LSebree <@t> uwhealth.org Wed Sep 26 07:43:25 2012 From: LSebree <@t> uwhealth.org (Sebree Linda A) Date: Wed Sep 26 07:43:32 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit toVentana Ultraview kit In-Reply-To: <009701cd9b6d$fc8b71b0$f5a25510$@rr.com> References: <009701cd9b6d$fc8b71b0$f5a25510$@rr.com> Message-ID: Joe, We are abiding by the CAP 10/10 guidelines when at all possible and then we compare our results with another method or same method but other lab, i.e. reference or another clinical lab willing to trade slides with us. The comparison part is where we are having issues as we, not me personally, don't want to pay a reference lab for the comparison work so we rely on others in our "Histonet family" willing to run our slides. And of course, we're squeezing as many cases on a single slide as possible. As to your question about 5/5 or more, CAP leaves it up to each lab as to whether its feasible and possible to obtain their recommended quota. Interesting thread as my days are spent in the middle of this exercise. Linda Sebree -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Nocito Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: 'Vanessa Perez'; 'Vickroy, Jim'; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit toVentana Ultraview kit We are having a lively discussion about having 10 known positives and 10 known negatives to validate new antibodies. Many years ago we set up 5 and 5 even before CAP thought of the idea. This year's checklist added the 10 and 10 part, but it is up to the medical director. What is everyone else doing out there? We are using the Ventana UltraView detection kits. Everyone who uses these kits know how expensive they are. Is 5 and 5 sufficient or should go by CAP recommendations? Joe Nocito -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vanessa Perez Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:37 PM To: Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit As far as lot to lot validation that's all we do. Use same control and compare both. Now validating a new detection kit is a whole different story. Here I just made a checklist of all the antibodies we do and had the doc sign off on each stain with the new kit. If you want you can do a slide of each with same control one with the iview and one with the ultraview. All depends on how your doc wants to validate it. Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vickroy, Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:58 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com Wed Sep 26 08:24:15 2012 From: mhale <@t> MiracaLS.com (Hale, Meredith) Date: Wed Sep 26 08:24:23 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Louisiana Liscenses Message-ID: <0E828EC51C7CC445A51E53F81B64E8C70371F4@s-irv-exchmb.PathologyPartners.intranet> Is anyone aware of HT's needing a license to perform gross in the state of Louisiana ? Thanks Meredith Hale HT (ASCP)cm Operations Liaision Director and Education Coordinator Miraca Life Sciences 6655 North MacArthur Blvd. Irving , Texas 75039 Office: 214-596-2219 Cell: 469-648-8253 Fax: 1-866-688-3280 mhale@miracals.com From Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org Wed Sep 26 08:36:12 2012 From: Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org (Richard Cartun) Date: Wed Sep 26 08:36:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] RE: Antibody validation In-Reply-To: References: <009701cd9b6d$fc8b71b0$f5a25510$@rr.com> Message-ID: <5062CC8C.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> There is no one right answer for the number of cases needed to validate an antibody for diagnostic immunohistochemistry. That decision must be made by the laboratory's medical director, not an outside organization. Many of the primary antibodies available today have proven "track records" and we certainly do not need to "re-invent the wheel" here. What I find helpful is a "Prospective Validation" where I continue to add cases to our original antibody validation file (Excel spreadsheet) that prove that the antibody is doing what it should be doing and that there is no analytical drift. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 (860) 545-2204 Fax >>> "Sebree Linda A" 9/26/2012 8:43 AM >>> Joe, We are abiding by the CAP 10/10 guidelines when at all possible and then we compare our results with another method or same method but other lab, i.e. reference or another clinical lab willing to trade slides with us. The comparison part is where we are having issues as we, not me personally, don't want to pay a reference lab for the comparison work so we rely on others in our "Histonet family" willing to run our slides. And of course, we're squeezing as many cases on a single slide as possible. As to your question about 5/5 or more, CAP leaves it up to each lab as to whether its feasible and possible to obtain their recommended quota. Interesting thread as my days are spent in the middle of this exercise. Linda Sebree -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Nocito Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: 'Vanessa Perez'; 'Vickroy, Jim'; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit toVentana Ultraview kit We are having a lively discussion about having 10 known positives and 10 known negatives to validate new antibodies. Many years ago we set up 5 and 5 even before CAP thought of the idea. This year's checklist added the 10 and 10 part, but it is up to the medical director. What is everyone else doing out there? We are using the Ventana UltraView detection kits. Everyone who uses these kits know how expensive they are. Is 5 and 5 sufficient or should go by CAP recommendations? Joe Nocito -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vanessa Perez Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:37 PM To: Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit As far as lot to lot validation that's all we do. Use same control and compare both. Now validating a new detection kit is a whole different story. Here I just made a checklist of all the antibodies we do and had the doc sign off on each stain with the new kit. If you want you can do a slide of each with same control one with the iview and one with the ultraview. All depends on how your doc wants to validate it. Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vickroy, Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:58 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Melissa.Kuhnla <@t> chsli.org Wed Sep 26 09:14:40 2012 From: Melissa.Kuhnla <@t> chsli.org (Kuhnla, Melissa) Date: Wed Sep 26 09:15:27 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection KittoVentana Ultraview kit In-Reply-To: References: <009701cd9b6d$fc8b71b0$f5a25510$@rr.com> Message-ID: Yes I completely agree that this is up to each medical director. This detection kit change is considered a major change but keep in mind they are similar products from the same vendor. Changing your detection is a very universal step. Think of your validation in a more universal way. 10/10 is extremely time consuming and expensive. For some antibodies, it will take years to accumulate ten positive cases. You could run some common panels of antibodies you see often. You could select some stains that are for cytoplasm, nuclear, membrane staining. You should pay more attention to any prognostic marker (ER/PR, CD20, ckit). Just some ideas. Best of luck. Melissa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sebree Linda A Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:43 AM To: Joe Nocito; Vanessa Perez; Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection KittoVentana Ultraview kit Joe, We are abiding by the CAP 10/10 guidelines when at all possible and then we compare our results with another method or same method but other lab, i.e. reference or another clinical lab willing to trade slides with us. The comparison part is where we are having issues as we, not me personally, don't want to pay a reference lab for the comparison work so we rely on others in our "Histonet family" willing to run our slides. And of course, we're squeezing as many cases on a single slide as possible. As to your question about 5/5 or more, CAP leaves it up to each lab as to whether its feasible and possible to obtain their recommended quota. Interesting thread as my days are spent in the middle of this exercise. Linda Sebree -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Nocito Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: 'Vanessa Perez'; 'Vickroy, Jim'; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit toVentana Ultraview kit We are having a lively discussion about having 10 known positives and 10 known negatives to validate new antibodies. Many years ago we set up 5 and 5 even before CAP thought of the idea. This year's checklist added the 10 and 10 part, but it is up to the medical director. What is everyone else doing out there? We are using the Ventana UltraView detection kits. Everyone who uses these kits know how expensive they are. Is 5 and 5 sufficient or should go by CAP recommendations? Joe Nocito -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vanessa Perez Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:37 PM To: Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit As far as lot to lot validation that's all we do. Use same control and compare both. Now validating a new detection kit is a whole different story. Here I just made a checklist of all the antibodies we do and had the doc sign off on each stain with the new kit. If you want you can do a slide of each with same control one with the iview and one with the ultraview. All depends on how your doc wants to validate it. Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vickroy, Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:58 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet The information in this e-mail, and any attachments therein, is confidential and for use by the intended addressee only. If this message is received by you in error please do not disseminate or read further. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete the message. Although Catholic Health Services of Long Island attempts to sweep e-mail and attachments for viruses, it does not guarantee that either are virus-free and accepts no liability for any damage sustained as a result of viruses. Thank you. From LSebree <@t> uwhealth.org Wed Sep 26 09:40:54 2012 From: LSebree <@t> uwhealth.org (Sebree Linda A) Date: Wed Sep 26 09:41:03 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection KittoVentana Ultraview kit In-Reply-To: References: <009701cd9b6d$fc8b71b0$f5a25510$@rr.com> Message-ID: We made our detection kit change when we purchased new Ultra immunostainers so of course validation covered many bases. If we were just changing detections, we'd run a couple positive controls for each antibody with the new detection and compare them to the same controls run with our current detection. If the results are comparable OR BETTER, our director would OK them. If not, we'd tweak that antibody for the new detection until it "passed". A similar procedure is followed for new lots of detection but we limit it to one control and one antibody: we've never had discrepant comparison results. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Kuhnla, Melissa [mailto:Melissa.Kuhnla@chsli.org] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:15 AM To: Sebree Linda A; Joe Nocito; Vanessa Perez; Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection KittoVentana Ultraview kit Yes I completely agree that this is up to each medical director. This detection kit change is considered a major change but keep in mind they are similar products from the same vendor. Changing your detection is a very universal step. Think of your validation in a more universal way. 10/10 is extremely time consuming and expensive. For some antibodies, it will take years to accumulate ten positive cases. You could run some common panels of antibodies you see often. You could select some stains that are for cytoplasm, nuclear, membrane staining. You should pay more attention to any prognostic marker (ER/PR, CD20, ckit). Just some ideas. Best of luck. Melissa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sebree Linda A Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:43 AM To: Joe Nocito; Vanessa Perez; Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection KittoVentana Ultraview kit Joe, We are abiding by the CAP 10/10 guidelines when at all possible and then we compare our results with another method or same method but other lab, i.e. reference or another clinical lab willing to trade slides with us. The comparison part is where we are having issues as we, not me personally, don't want to pay a reference lab for the comparison work so we rely on others in our "Histonet family" willing to run our slides. And of course, we're squeezing as many cases on a single slide as possible. As to your question about 5/5 or more, CAP leaves it up to each lab as to whether its feasible and possible to obtain their recommended quota. Interesting thread as my days are spent in the middle of this exercise. Linda Sebree -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Nocito Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:35 PM To: 'Vanessa Perez'; 'Vickroy, Jim'; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit toVentana Ultraview kit We are having a lively discussion about having 10 known positives and 10 known negatives to validate new antibodies. Many years ago we set up 5 and 5 even before CAP thought of the idea. This year's checklist added the 10 and 10 part, but it is up to the medical director. What is everyone else doing out there? We are using the Ventana UltraView detection kits. Everyone who uses these kits know how expensive they are. Is 5 and 5 sufficient or should go by CAP recommendations? Joe Nocito -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vanessa Perez Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:37 PM To: Vickroy, Jim; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit As far as lot to lot validation that's all we do. Use same control and compare both. Now validating a new detection kit is a whole different story. Here I just made a checklist of all the antibodies we do and had the doc sign off on each stain with the new kit. If you want you can do a slide of each with same control one with the iview and one with the ultraview. All depends on how your doc wants to validate it. Vanessa -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Vickroy, Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:58 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Changing from Ventana IView Detection Kit to Ventana Ultraview kit We are trying to decide how to validate our stains when we switch from Ventana's IView kit to their Ultraview Kit. I have reviewed the CAP question on this and find the following wording: The performance of new lots of antibody and detection system reagents are compared with old lots before or concurrently with being placed into service. Note: Parallel staining is required to control for variables such as disparity in the lots of detection reagents or instrument function. New lots of primary and detection reagents must be compared to the previous lot using an appropriate panel of control tissues. This comparison must be made on slides cut from the same control block. Evidence: Written procedure and records of verification of new reagent lots. For new lots of antibodies we have been running the new lot and comparing with the previous lot by reviewing the control slide from the old lot to the new lot. Is this sufficient? Wording that bothers me is "appropriate panel of tissues" Thanks for your input. James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet The information in this e-mail, and any attachments therein, is confidential and for use by the intended addressee only. If this message is received by you in error please do not disseminate or read further. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete the message. Although Catholic Health Services of Long Island attempts to sweep e-mail and attachments for viruses, it does not guarantee that either are virus-free and accepts no liability for any damage sustained as a result of viruses. Thank you. From john.tadross03 <@t> imperial.ac.uk Wed Sep 26 09:58:44 2012 From: john.tadross03 <@t> imperial.ac.uk (Tadross, John) Date: Wed Sep 26 09:59:37 2012 Subject: [Histonet] GLP1R Message-ID: Dear all Has anyone found an antibody that stains mouse or rat GLP1R? I have now tried about 10 antibodies from various sources, half didn't work at all and the ones that did gave the samd staining in both WT and GLP1R KO mice. If anyone can recommend an antibody i'd be very grateful. Thanks Dr John A Tadross PhD Imperial College London From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 10:44:12 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Wed Sep 26 10:44:19 2012 Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks In-Reply-To: <19151880.1900.1348653384989.JavaMail.tomcat@draco> References: <19151880.1900.1348653384989.JavaMail.tomcat@draco> Message-ID: <1348674252.52502.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Your problem is not finding a "softener" but to decalcify your tissues correctly. Usually histotechs rub decalcifying solutions over the exposed area of the block but that wil affect the quality of the sections so, again, decalcify properly your tissues and you will not have any needs to make any additional "softening". Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Jose Luis Palazon Fernandez To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:56 AM Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks Dear List-members I'm trying to cut some fish muscle samples (along with skin and some bone tissues) embedded in paraffin (fixed in Bouin's fixative and decalcified with EDTA). I find it very difficult to cut these blocks and I would like to know, based in your experience, what tissue softening agent do you recomend to solve this problem. Many thanks in advance greetings, Jos? Luis Dr. Jos? Luis Palaz?n Fern?ndez Instituto de Investigaciones Cient?ficas Universidad de Oriente Boca del Rio-Isla Margarita-Venezuela Direccion actual: Instituto de Ciencias Marinas de Andalucia-CSIC Campus universitario Rio San Pedro, 11510, Puerto Real, C?diz, Espa?a email: jluis.palazon@icman.csic.es; jose.palazon@ne.udo.edu.ve tlf: +34-956832612; fax: +34-956834701; cell: +34-600487100 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From jqb7 <@t> cdc.gov Wed Sep 26 10:46:48 2012 From: jqb7 <@t> cdc.gov (Bartlett, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)) Date: Wed Sep 26 10:47:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks In-Reply-To: <1348674252.52502.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <19151880.1900.1348653384989.JavaMail.tomcat@draco> <1348674252.52502.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Quite a few people add a detergent to their ice soak after facing the block and allow it to sit for a while. This is especially helpful if the tissue is skin. Jeanine H. Bartlett Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Infectious Diseases Pathology Branch 404-639-3590 jeanine.bartlett@cdc.hhs.gov -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:44 AM To: Jose Luis Palazon Fernandez; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks Your problem is not finding a "softener" but to decalcify your tissues correctly. Usually histotechs rub decalcifying solutions over the exposed area of the block but that wil affect the quality of the sections so, again, decalcify properly your tissues and you will not have any needs to make any additional "softening". Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Jose Luis Palazon Fernandez To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:56 AM Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks Dear List-members I'm trying to cut some fish muscle samples (along with skin and some bone tissues) embedded in paraffin (fixed in Bouin's fixative and decalcified with EDTA). I find it very difficult to cut these blocks and I would like to know, based in your experience, what tissue softening agent do you recomend to solve this problem. Many thanks in advance greetings, Jos? Luis Dr. Jos? Luis Palaz?n Fern?ndez Instituto de Investigaciones Cient?ficas Universidad de Oriente Boca del Rio-Isla Margarita-Venezuela Direccion actual: Instituto de Ciencias Marinas de Andalucia-CSIC Campus universitario Rio San Pedro, 11510, Puerto Real, C?diz, Espa?a email: jluis.palazon@icman.csic.es; jose.palazon@ne.udo.edu.ve tlf: +34-956832612; fax: +34-956834701; cell: +34-600487100 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk Wed Sep 26 10:53:18 2012 From: carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk (Hobbs, Carl) Date: Wed Sep 26 10:53:28 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Rat Brain Serial Sections Message-ID: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738189B1212@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> My "bread and butter" tissue preps are Pwax brains....often serial sections but not for stereology ( eg: mouse/chick/rat/zfish/monkey). I routinely, like many others, cut serial sections varying between 10 to 200 sections ( more, if reqd) They can be prone to "chatter"..... When this happens I either "hughf" on the tissue block as I'm cutting ( Ok, OK....H&S may have concerns): mouth comes close to the block and a gentle expiration of warm, moist air onto the block surface just before the actual cutting Works very well although, around the 20th section, a little breather is req ( so one "loses" a section every so often). Or.......I'll dampen a Kimwipe with 20% alcohol, squeeze until just moist, then before every section is cut, a firm but light forward and backward wipe on the block face. Both work very well ( H&S may prefer the latter, I prefer the former ;-). Actions have to be continuous: no jerkiness/stopping! Keep well away from soaking as the block will swell, losing you far more sections than the above methods. Others will have different suggestions; the above have worked well for 30+ yrs, and continue to do so. Breathlessy, Carl Carl Hobbs Histology and Imaging Manager Wolfson CARD School of Biomedical Sciences Kings College London Guys Campus SE1 1UL Tel: 020 78486813 Fax: 020 78486816 020 78486813 From contact <@t> histocare.com Wed Sep 26 12:17:17 2012 From: contact <@t> histocare.com (Contact HistoCare) Date: Wed Sep 26 12:17:26 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Have Blocks Will Cut In-Reply-To: <201209261704.q8QH4dGq013586@mail18c40.carrierzone.com> References: <201209261704.q8QH4dGq013586@mail18c40.carrierzone.com> Message-ID: <2EEBC9DB-153F-4BB0-9F92-9587F3AC321F@histocare.com> Thanks to everyone who inquired about contracting my services and gave me an opportunity to explain the value I add. This is a great opportunity for those involved and it keeps the stress to a minimum and puts people in a better mood since the individual workload is lighter and you don't feel like a machine. For the next few months, my reach will remain in the southern states unless I'm compelled to do otherwise :). Please contact me if you need some relief in your lab, I know many do but may not want to admit it :) Thanks again histonet From rcharles <@t> pa.gov Wed Sep 26 12:58:25 2012 From: rcharles <@t> pa.gov (Charles, Roger) Date: Wed Sep 26 12:58:36 2012 Subject: [Histonet] ShurMount coverslipper Message-ID: <3809C163DC1DA54AA534B3C7794D07B6CA7382D124@ENHBGMBX01.PA.LCL> Hello, Does anyone have experience with the ShurMark glass coverslipper. We are looking at purchasing one and I would like to hear pros and cons. Thanks Roger Roger Charles| Microbiologist II Pennsylvania Veterinary Laboratory 2305 North Cameron Street | Harrisburg, PA 17110 Phone: 717.787.8808 | Fax: 717.772.3895 www.agriculture.state.pa.us From Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org Wed Sep 26 15:02:38 2012 From: Rcartun <@t> harthosp.org (Richard Cartun) Date: Wed Sep 26 15:02:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Question Message-ID: <5063271F.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> I was asked by a colleague if there is testing for "fibrinogen storage disease" that can be performed on fixed tissue. I told her that I did not know, but I would ask the experts. Thank you. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT 06102 (860) 545-1596 (860) 545-2204 Fax From Paula.Blair <@t> cchmc.org Wed Sep 26 16:58:55 2012 From: Paula.Blair <@t> cchmc.org (Blair, Paula) Date: Wed Sep 26 16:59:05 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Ferret lungs Message-ID: I am sectioning ferret lungs and am having problems with tearing and lines because the bronchioles and blood vessels are so thick , similar to trachea. Has anyone sectioned these animals and can give suggestions on soaking or anything that will help get a smooth section. From cforster <@t> umn.edu Wed Sep 26 17:44:48 2012 From: cforster <@t> umn.edu (Colleen Forster) Date: Wed Sep 26 17:44:50 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Come and visit the Legislative Committee in Vancouver! Message-ID: <50638560.6070209@umn.edu> Greetings to everyone on behalf of the Legislative Committee. I am formally inviting each of you to stop by our booth #625 while you are browsing about the product hall. We would love to meet you. This year we will have a couple different flag designs to look at or maybe you have another idea to present...come and vote and get your button! Our committee meets on Saturday September 29th at noon in room 208/209. Grab your lunch and join us. The more discussion we have the better! See you soon, Colleen Forster Legislative Chair. From d.a.faichney <@t> stir.ac.uk Thu Sep 27 03:40:10 2012 From: d.a.faichney <@t> stir.ac.uk (Debbie Faichney) Date: Thu Sep 27 03:40:51 2012 Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks In-Reply-To: <19151880.1900.1348653384989.JavaMail.tomcat@draco> References: <19151880.1900.1348653384989.JavaMail.tomcat@draco> Message-ID: <8ED3F2CA5B78E142B8193376C57330F8FA2EA21FBE@EXCH2007.ad.stir.ac.uk> Hello Jose, We routinely surface decalcify the trimmed/faced block for one hour with a commercial product (Rapid Decalcifier or RDC, Cellpath) which contains Hydrochloric acid. Works a treat! Alternatively we have been known to use a splash of laundry fabric softener in the soaking water for IHC sections. Which species of fish are you sectioning? This can make a huge difference to the timing in either solution. Best regards Debbie Faichney Histopathology Institute of Aquaculture University of Stirling Stirling, FK9 4LA UK .???`?...?><((((?>`?.??.???`?.?.???`?...,><((((?> .???`?.......?><((((?>`?....??...???`?.?.???`?...,..><((((?> -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jose Luis Palazon Fernandez Sent: 26 September 2012 10:56 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks Dear List-members I'm trying to cut some fish muscle samples (along with skin and some bone tissues) embedded in paraffin (fixed in Bouin's fixative and decalcified with EDTA). I find it very difficult to cut these blocks and I would like to know, based in your experience, what tissue softening agent do you recomend to solve this problem. Many thanks in advance greetings, Jos? Luis Dr. Jos? Luis Palaz?n Fern?ndez Instituto de Investigaciones Cient?ficas Universidad de Oriente Boca del Rio-Isla Margarita-Venezuela Direccion actual: Instituto de Ciencias Marinas de Andalucia-CSIC Campus universitario Rio San Pedro, 11510, Puerto Real, C?diz, Espa?a email: jluis.palazon@icman.csic.es; jose.palazon@ne.udo.edu.ve tlf: +34-956832612; fax: +34-956834701; cell: +34-600487100 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- The University of Stirling is ranked in the top 50 in the world in The Times Higher Education 100 Under 50 table, which ranks the world's best 100 universities under 50 years old. The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC 011159. From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 27 09:05:05 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Thu Sep 27 09:05:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Ferret lungs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348754705.63464.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> You have to assure a perfect infiltration. Cartilage needs that. Also you will have to "play" with sectioning speed, type of blade (knife) and sectioning angle. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Blair, Paula" To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:58 PM Subject: [Histonet] Ferret lungs I am sectioning ferret lungs and am having problems with tearing and lines because the bronchioles and blood vessels are so thick , similar to trachea.? Has anyone sectioned these animals and can give suggestions on soaking or anything that will help get a smooth section. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From paintedsplashes <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 27 12:10:07 2012 From: paintedsplashes <@t> yahoo.com (Jeanne Clark) Date: Thu Sep 27 12:10:17 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 34 Message-ID: <1348765807.22290.YahooMailNeo@web161705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hello all, ? Anyone arriving in Vancouver airport around 4 to 5pm that would like to share a limo over to the convention center arear?? If 3 or 4 of us can combine, its actually cheaper than a cab?? And I'm sure a much more enjoyable ride! ? Jeanne Clark (SFO to Vancouver) From: "histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 4:00 PM Subject: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 34 Send Histonet mailing list submissions to ??? histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu You can reach the person managing the list at ??? histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Histonet digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Have Blocks Will Cut (Contact HistoCare) ? 2. ShurMount coverslipper (Charles, Roger) ? 3. Question (Richard Cartun) ? 4. Ferret lungs (Blair, Paula) ? 5. Come and visit the Legislative Committee in Vancouver! ? ? ? (Colleen Forster) ? 6. RE: softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks ? ? ? (Debbie Faichney) ? 7. Re: Ferret lungs (Rene J Buesa) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:17:17 -0500 From: Contact HistoCare Subject: [Histonet] Have Blocks Will Cut To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ??? Message-ID: <2EEBC9DB-153F-4BB0-9F92-9587F3AC321F@histocare.com> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii Thanks to everyone who inquired about contracting my services and gave me an opportunity to explain the value I add. This is a great opportunity for those involved and it keeps the stress to a minimum and puts people in a better mood since the individual workload is lighter and you don't feel like a machine. For the next few months, my reach will remain in the southern states unless I'm compelled to do otherwise :). Please contact me if you need some relief in your lab, I know many do but may not want to admit it :) Thanks again histonet ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:58:25 -0400 From: "Charles, Roger" Subject: [Histonet] ShurMount coverslipper To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ??? Message-ID: ??? <3809C163DC1DA54AA534B3C7794D07B6CA7382D124@ENHBGMBX01.PA.LCL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, Does anyone have experience with the ShurMark glass coverslipper.? We are looking at purchasing one and I would like to hear pros and cons. Thanks Roger Roger Charles| Microbiologist II Pennsylvania Veterinary Laboratory 2305 North Cameron Street | Harrisburg, PA 17110 Phone: 717.787.8808 | Fax: 717.772.3895 www.agriculture.state.pa.us ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:02:38 -0400 From: "Richard Cartun" Subject: [Histonet] Question To: "Histonet" Message-ID: <5063271F.7400.0077.1@harthosp.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I was asked by a colleague if there is testing for "fibrinogen storage disease" that can be performed on fixed tissue.? I told her that I did not know, but I would ask the experts.? Thank you. Richard Richard W. Cartun, MS, PhD Director, Histology & Immunopathology Director, Biospecimen Collection Programs Assistant Director, Anatomic Pathology Hartford Hospital 80 Seymour Street Hartford, CT? 06102 (860) 545-1596 (860) 545-2204 Fax ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 21:58:55 +0000 From: "Blair, Paula" Subject: [Histonet] Ferret lungs To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ??? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am sectioning ferret lungs and am having problems with tearing and lines because the bronchioles and blood vessels are so thick , similar to trachea.? Has anyone sectioned these animals and can give suggestions on soaking or anything that will help get a smooth section. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:44:48 -0500 From: Colleen Forster Subject: [Histonet] Come and visit the Legislative Committee in ??? Vancouver! To: Histonet Message-ID: <50638560.6070209@umn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ? ? ? ? ? Greetings to everyone on behalf of the Legislative Committee. ? ? ? ? ? I am formally inviting each of you to stop by our booth #625 ? ? ? ? ? while you are browsing about the product hall. We would love ? ? ? ? ? to meet you. This year we will have a couple different flag ? ? ? ? ? designs to look at or maybe you have another idea to ? ? ? ? ? present...come and vote and get your button! ? ? ? ? ? Our committee meets on Saturday September 29th at noon in room ? ? ? ? ? 208/209. Grab your lunch and join us. The more discussion we ? ? ? ? ? have the better! ? ? ? ? ? See you soon, ? ? ? ? ? Colleen Forster Legislative Chair. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:40:10 +0100 From: Debbie Faichney Subject: RE: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in ??? paraffin blocks To: Jose Luis Palazon Fernandez , ??? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ??? Message-ID: ??? <8ED3F2CA5B78E142B8193376C57330F8FA2EA21FBE@EXCH2007.ad.stir.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Jose, We routinely surface decalcify the trimmed/faced block for one hour with a commercial product (Rapid Decalcifier or RDC, Cellpath) which contains Hydrochloric acid.? Works a treat!? Alternatively we have been known to use a splash of laundry fabric softener in the soaking water for IHC sections. Which species of fish are you sectioning?? This can make a huge difference to the timing in either solution. Best regards Debbie Faichney Histopathology Institute of Aquaculture University of Stirling Stirling, FK9 4LA UK .???`?...?><((((?>`?.??.???`?.?.???`?...,><((((?> .???`?.......?><((((?>`?....??...???`?.?.???`?...,..><((((?> -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jose Luis Palazon Fernandez Sent: 26 September 2012 10:56 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] softening agent for tissues embedded in paraffin blocks Dear List-members I'm trying to cut some fish muscle samples (along with skin and some bone tissues) embedded in paraffin (fixed in Bouin's fixative and decalcified with EDTA). I find it very difficult to cut these blocks and I would like to know, based in your experience, what tissue softening agent do you recomend to solve this problem. Many thanks in advance greetings, Jos? Luis Dr. Jos? Luis Palaz?n Fern?ndez Instituto de Investigaciones Cient?ficas Universidad de Oriente Boca del Rio-Isla Margarita-Venezuela Direccion actual: Instituto de Ciencias Marinas de Andalucia-CSIC Campus universitario Rio San Pedro, 11510, Puerto Real, C?diz, Espa?a email: jluis.palazon@icman.csic.es; jose.palazon@ne.udo.edu.ve tlf: +34-956832612; fax: +34-956834701; cell: +34-600487100 _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- The University of Stirling is ranked in the top 50 in the world in The Times Higher Education 100 Under 50 table, which ranks the world's best 100 universities under 50 years old. The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC 011159. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:05:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Rene J Buesa Subject: Re: [Histonet] Ferret lungs To: "Blair, Paula" , ??? "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" ??? Message-ID: ??? <1348754705.63464.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 You have to assure a perfect infiltration. Cartilage needs that. Also you will have to "play" with sectioning speed, type of blade (knife) and sectioning angle. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: "Blair, Paula" To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:58 PM Subject: [Histonet] Ferret lungs I am sectioning ferret lungs and am having problems with tearing and lines because the bronchioles and blood vessels are so thick , similar to trachea.? Has anyone sectioned these animals and can give suggestions on soaking or anything that will help get a smooth section. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 34 ***************************************** From Vickroy.Jim <@t> mhsil.com Thu Sep 27 14:49:12 2012 From: Vickroy.Jim <@t> mhsil.com (Vickroy, Jim) Date: Thu Sep 27 14:49:22 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Copath Message-ID: We have been using CoPath plus for about a year now and are still discovering things we can do with it. One of the issues that has come up is how are other institutions with CoPath satisfying the following CAP checklist question: Question ASNP.11850 Intra-Operative Reports The results of intra-operative surgical consultations are documented and signed by the pathologist who made the diagnosis. Evidence of Compliance: Note: The intent of this requirement is for the laboratory to maintain a contemporaneous report of the consultation. This may be a handwritten, signed report or a computer-generated report with electronic signature. Often our intra-operative pathologist is not the same pathologist that signs out the final. We have fields in which we can enter the intra-operative pathologist and other fields where we can enter an intra-operative diagnosis. I am trying to figure out how we get this signed electronically. Currently only the pathologist signing out the case does his or her electronic signature. Does anyone know if we can also have the intra-operative pathologist sign out the intra-operative diagnosis or report? I think we would have to have separate intra-operative report generated or something. Currently the frozen section diagnosis just goes into the body of the final report and there is no separate intra-operative report. In the past we had the pathologist write on a copy of the req. the diagnosis and initial the copy of the req. I really don't think the diagnosis written on the bottom of the req. is the best way to handle this. Any suggestions? James Vickroy BS, HT(ASCP) Surgical and Autopsy Pathology Technical Supervisor Memorial Medical Center 217-788-4046 ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From Diane.Tokugawa <@t> kp.org Thu Sep 27 17:00:25 2012 From: Diane.Tokugawa <@t> kp.org (Diane.Tokugawa@kp.org) Date: Thu Sep 27 17:00:44 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Diane Tokugawa/CA/KAIPERM is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 09/27/2012 and will not return until 10/08/2012. Note: For Cytology issues, please call Robin (day) at 8-421-5040, Wanda (day) 8-421-5426, or Eric (swing) 8-421-5405 For Histology issues, please call Mario (day) 8-421-4961, Barbara (swing) 8-421-4959, IHC/Histo issues Kiran at 8-421-5404, or general histology client service at 8-421-5408. From lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 27 17:13:33 2012 From: lpwenk <@t> sbcglobal.net (Lee & Peggy Wenk) Date: Thu Sep 27 17:13:34 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Unsubscribe if going to NSH Message-ID: If you are going to NSH, please UNSUBSCRIBE from HistoNet, rather than having all of us get ?I?m away from the office? notices on every HistoNet email sent to you. Go to the bottom of any HistoNet email, such as this one. - Click on the bottom line, which starts out http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu . . . - Scroll to the bottom, under ?HistoNet Subscribers?, under the line that starts ?To unsubscribe from Histonet. . . ?, type in your email address that you receive your HistoNet email. - Click on ?Unsubscribe or Edit Options? I?m not going any further than this right now, so you are on your own to follow the rest of the directions to unsubscribe. Re-subscribe when you get back. Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS Beaumont Hospital Royal Oak, MI 48073 From histotalk <@t> yahoo.com Thu Sep 27 17:17:19 2012 From: histotalk <@t> yahoo.com (David Kemler) Date: Thu Sep 27 17:17:22 2012 Subject: [Histonet] HistoTALK in Vancouver! Message-ID: <1348784239.36495.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hello Histonetters - ? Two NEW HistoTALK http://www.histotalk.com/ programs are up and running! September 16th show has Beverly & Doug Robinson talking about private labs?in general and then on September 23rd's show, Lynda Ferry a newly registered histotech talks with us about why?she chose Histology as a profession. Fun interviews! ? I will be in Vancouver for the 38th Annual NSH Convention/Symposium. HistoTALK has a table out in the registration area (somewhere!?) and I'll be interviewing some of histology's "most interesting, informative and entertaining professionals"! If you would like to be?taped for a future show, stop by Monday and?Tuesday and I'll?be sure to get you on the show! Tuesday I'll be doing a workshop from 10:00 am?to 11:30 am, so I won't at the HistoTALK mobile studio during those hours.? ? I'm hoping for return interviews?with some of?our NSH Officers and Administration friends. Brenda and Carrie get ready to twist arms! ? See you in Vancouver! ? Yours, David From deshsmith1 <@t> gmail.com Thu Sep 27 17:21:16 2012 From: deshsmith1 <@t> gmail.com (Demetria Ross) Date: Thu Sep 27 17:21:21 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue Message-ID: I'm curious to know how long can tissue stay on the machine in paraffin before it becomes a problem I have left tissue stay in paraffin 30 min-2 hours before I take it off but not on a daily basis Thanks in advance From latecor <@t> montevideo.com.uy Thu Sep 27 21:18:20 2012 From: latecor <@t> montevideo.com.uy (C.D.G.) Date: Thu Sep 27 21:18:27 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re:paraffin and tissue Message-ID: <201209272318200203.000EE7EB@smtp.montevideo.com.uy> Tissues can stay for hours and in cases days in paraffin, with no detrimental effects on the quality of the block you will get. If temperatures of the baths are well controlled, and you take care of make at least two paraffin stations steps, nothing bad could be expected on the quality of the sections you will obtain. My regards, Carlos.- From max_histo_00 <@t> yahoo.it Fri Sep 28 03:10:59 2012 From: max_histo_00 <@t> yahoo.it (Massimo) Date: Fri Sep 28 03:11:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348819859.5255.YahooMailNeo@web171206.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> It also depends by the thickness of the pieces. If they are small after about 20 minutes you can put them in new paraffin where they will still stay for 20 minutes. If the pieces have a medium thickness ( about a half of a cubic centimetre) it would be better to keep them in the oven altogether for two hours, by changing the paraffin after a hour. Pieces of organs or embryos with spacious cavity, bulky fragments of nervous system, fibrous tissues,?they must remain in the heater more time so the paraffin can fill the empty spaces and to embed completely the tissues. For instance four hours in the first paraffin bath and the same in the second one. I use, before to processing, to put the pieces into a saturated solution of paraffin in the solvent ( Xylene in my case) for about a hour. Then I dry them with blotting paper before to put them into the first paraffin bath. But that it isn't a necessary step. Pay attention, when you have obtained the paraffin block with the enclosed pieces and you see? a whitish ring around the enclosed pieces it means that not all the solvent was taken away from the first? paraffin bath and it was dragged in the following baths. In that case it is advisable to repeat quickly the inclusion in a new paraffin. NOTE: I perform all the procedure in manual mode and not automatically. Kind Regards, Massimo Tosi -------------------------- A humble Chemical Engineer histlogist. ________________________________ Da: Demetria Ross A: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Inviato: Venerd? 28 Settembre 2012 0:21 Oggetto: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue I'm curious to know how long can tissue stay on the machine in paraffin before it becomes a problem I have left tissue stay in paraffin 30 min-2 hours before I take it off but not on a daily basis Thanks in advance _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From funderwood <@t> mcohio.org Fri Sep 28 07:31:42 2012 From: funderwood <@t> mcohio.org (Fred Underwood) Date: Fri Sep 28 07:32:05 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5065606E0200003400016A4A@mcohio.org> I have left them for over 24 hours with no ill effect on sectioning. >>> Demetria Ross 9/27/2012 6:21 PM >>> I'm curious to know how long can tissue stay on the machine in paraffin before it becomes a problem I have left tissue stay in paraffin 30 min-2 hours before I take it off but not on a daily basis Thanks in advance _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From b427297 <@t> aol.com Fri Sep 28 12:05:22 2012 From: b427297 <@t> aol.com (Jackie O'Connor) Date: Fri Sep 28 12:05:48 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CF6BB294563E1E-1274-49EA7@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> It has been my experience that tissues that remain in paraffin too long (like over a weekend) become brittle and hard. If we are embedding over 300 blocks, those blocks may remain in the embedding station for up to 6 hours - but I personally strongly recommend sticking to your SOP for processing. Besides, if your SOP says paraffin for 3 hours, leaving them longer is a violation of your SOP. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Demetria Ross To: histonet Sent: Thu, Sep 27, 2012 5:21 pm Subject: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue I'm curious to know how long can tissue stay on the machine in paraffin efore it becomes a problem I have left tissue stay in paraffin 30 min-2 ours before I take it off but not on a daily basis Thanks in advance ______________________________________________ istonet mailing list istonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu ttp://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Elizabeth.Cameron <@t> jax.org Fri Sep 28 12:59:57 2012 From: Elizabeth.Cameron <@t> jax.org (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Fri Sep 28 13:00:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Caspase 8 for Mouse Message-ID: Anyone out there know of a caspase 8 that works well on mouse tissue? Thanks! -Liz The information in this email, including attachments, may be confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you believe you received this email by mistake, please notify the sender by return email as soon as possible. From rennie1108 <@t> yahoo.com Fri Sep 28 14:26:04 2012 From: rennie1108 <@t> yahoo.com (Adrienne Anderson) Date: Fri Sep 28 14:26:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Stainer for sale Message-ID: <15FE6F08-1190-4AD7-887E-7B28B38D2099@yahoo.com> Hello all, We have an automated stainer we are looking to sell. It's a Microm DS50. If interested, please email me. Thanks! Adrienne From galinadeyneko <@t> yahoo.com Fri Sep 28 16:24:54 2012 From: galinadeyneko <@t> yahoo.com (Galina Deyneko) Date: Fri Sep 28 16:24:57 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 35 Message-ID: <1348867494.99871.YahooMailClassic@web160205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Dear Colleagues I would like to ask again about cell block preparation. of cause I found number of answer on the histonet site and sorry that I ask again. The cells what I prepare look distorted. Short protocol: 30 minutes of fixation in 10 %NBF, centrifuge? 1000 rmr, wash in PBS, centrifuge, re-suspend in histogel and processed in Thermo Shandon with following program: Ethanols70, 70,80, 95,95,100,100,100,Xylenes 3 changes, Wax 3 changes - 1 hour in each station. I also tried short protocol - 30 minutes in each station. I also would like to try to do OCT embedding to avoid processing anparaffinin embedding. Should I fix the cells before OCT embedding or not? Can I re-suspend directly in OCT or still need to embed in Histogel ?first and freeze in OCT Histogel block. Please could you share your protocols and give me some hints. Thank you and good weekend. Galina Deyneko Novartis, Cambridge, MA ? 617-871-7613 w ? From histotech411 <@t> gmail.com Fri Sep 28 21:39:31 2012 From: histotech411 <@t> gmail.com (Jenny Vega) Date: Fri Sep 28 21:39:37 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray Message-ID: I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only freezing spray. She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay sharp for more time. She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then we will be using less freezing spray. Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to cut even when relying only on freezing spray. I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. Thanks. From latecor <@t> montevideo.com.uy Fri Sep 28 22:04:29 2012 From: latecor <@t> montevideo.com.uy (C.D.G.) Date: Fri Sep 28 22:04:31 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201209290004290984.0018B2E0@smtp.montevideo.com.uy> Freezing spray is better if you use it with discretion. Freezing too much could render sections with artifacts like partial "holes" on the section, so you must use it with care and not always, as you stated, some pieces cut better if you don't chill them at all. The use of ice is possible,but I saw that many times, the drop of water over the blade holder unit, leads to a slow but progressive corrosion of some of the components that are indispensable for an accurately sectioning work. Try to begin using the spray taking care of not overcool the materials and you'll soon be feeling comfortable with this method. My best regards , Carlos.- *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 28/09/2012 at 10:39 p.m. Jenny Vega wrote: >I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks >in >the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor >because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't >like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an >ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech >school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one >using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only >freezing spray. > >She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her >is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but >unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go >back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without >wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I >sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them >with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works >but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have >difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying >to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times >is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades >get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two >separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay >sharp for more time. > >She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out >of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make >sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then >we will be using less freezing spray. > >Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not >meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small >biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard >and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and >colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to >cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > >I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, >cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time >comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > >Thanks. >_______________________________________________ >Histonet mailing list > >http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From contact <@t> histocare.com Fri Sep 28 23:30:10 2012 From: contact <@t> histocare.com (Contact HistoCare) Date: Fri Sep 28 23:30:14 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray Message-ID: Hi, I have a feeling that the supervisor's motivation for discouraging your personal technique is financial and not procedural. I can't image in a high volume setting where that technique would work, especially when there are various kinds of tissue. Your supervisor's insistence on one way suggests you deal in mainly one type of tissue like skin or GI. When you have only one way to skin your cat, figuratively speaking, something (be it ice, freeze spray, or blades) WILL be used in excess. For example, your supervisor's technique would likely run through a lot more blades. To make great slides, you HAVE to have a sharp, high quality blade to cut a great section, period. But using an ice tray to keep your blocks cold helps your blades go a bit farther. Remember, patient care should never be compromised; if you need to use a fresh blade to get the best section, I can't imagine any sane and reasonable pathologist who wouldn't side with you. A skilled histotech who is proficient in cutting can use ice trays and not waste any time. As a point of reference, I can face(or trim) AND cut 40+ slides at 3 microns in 30 minutes USING an ice tray. That's VERY efficient. It is more likely that one would have to wrestle with a warm or room temperature block longer with using only spray to get the best section. You are an artist and there are many techniques to get the desired results in creating your masterpiece. I would certainly be receptive to learning different techniques from your supervisor to ADD to your repertoire, but I would be steadfast in finding what works for you , within reason and departmental expenses of course. Also ask for help in ways to be more efficient that utilizes processes you already are familiar with. Hope that helps www.HistoCare.com From gu.lang <@t> gmx.at Sat Sep 29 03:32:35 2012 From: gu.lang <@t> gmx.at (Gudrun Lang) Date: Sat Sep 29 03:32:43 2012 Subject: AW: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008d01cd9e1c$fb090e40$f11b2ac0$@gmx.at> Cooling on ice for 10-15 min renders the block cool enough for trimming and consecutive cutting without the need of a freezing spray. We use cooling devices at -15 degrees. They have usually a nice snow-surface, that gives the block some moisture during cooling. Especially blocks, that have to be recut, get advantage of this and are easier to cut. I think freezing sprays render the block too cool and provide no evan temperature throughout the block. A completly homogenously cool block is better to cut. I also don't like the interrupted workflow with first trimming, then putting away and then cutting again. - but- I work with a sliding microtome and trimming goes really fast. Gudrun Lang -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Jenny Vega Gesendet: Samstag, 29. September 2012 04:40 An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Betreff: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only freezing spray. She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay sharp for more time. She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then we will be using less freezing spray. Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to cut even when relying only on freezing spray. I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. Thanks. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Sat Sep 29 07:56:49 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Sat Sep 29 07:56:55 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jenny My experience and training is to use some method involving ice or at the very least a cold-retaining tray made to chill blocks. I also was taught this method in histology school , in clinical training at four quite large institutions, and also have used some variation of an ice cooling method in every instance in my career working in clinical and research settings. There are always variations in technique from lab to lab, but freezing spray has been generally discouraged for constant use at the microtome, since it can introduce artifact in sections if over used. ( It is pretty easy to see the effect on the face of the paraffin block, and that is not even under the microscope.) I actually almost never use freezing spray personally for regular paraffin microtomy. I do use it when doing frozen sections on occasion, but then it is typically only for difficult specimens such as fatty breast or soft/fattty lymph nodes that need very cold temperatures. I sometimes use it to cool only the backside of paraffin blocks during embedding when I am being impatient, and I avoid spraying directly on the face, and that is about the extent it of freeze spray's uses for me. Personally, I prefer my blocks quite cold, in fact, one thing I don't like where I currently work , is that blocks are allowed to get to room temperature after removal from the embedding cold plate. I feel that I can more efficiently get good sections when the cold temperature is maintained and uniform though the block, rather than re-cooling a warmed room temp. block. Overall, I would expect constant and direct application of the freezing spray would be more of a problem than anything involving ice, which would "flash freeze" mostly the surface, and not cool throughout, which is why you have to keep spraying it. Of course, I am not talking about leaving the faced block surface on the ice for so long a time that it becomes "water-logged"- but if you are sitting at your microtome and cutting diligently, and not leaving faced pecimens just sit there, I'm not sure how this would be an issue. In general I think the combination of ice and water benefits most specimens ( especially GI and Liver cores, bloody stuff, and other types-that can sometimes be brittle and delicate due to processing)-I feel that the small amount of moisture that transfers from contact with the ice aids the smoothness/ reduces brittleness of the section, reducing "shatter" artifact. I feel that I would be unable to get sections without chatter in hard/dense tissues such as uterus body, cervix, bloody specimens and others without using ice. The only exception for me, might be brain which can cut better warm. I am sure you must be frustrated, but if this is the clear direction of your supervisor, and they are not receptive to making any changes or allowing you to use your preferred technique, and not interested in new different methods, then I am not sure that there would be much that you can do other than comply with their policies. I know it is hard when people are not open to new ideas and techniques . I had have that experience and those feelings quite often over the years, but just try to stay postive, do the best you can. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 > From: histotech411@gmail.com > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > freezing spray. > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay > sharp for more time. > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then > we will be using less freezing spray. > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From b427297 <@t> aol.com Sat Sep 29 08:41:14 2012 From: b427297 <@t> aol.com (Jackie O'Connor) Date: Sat Sep 29 08:41:26 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CF6C5F39ED7501-B8C-4B86D@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> It has been my experience that using freezing spray will cause artifacts in the paraffin block as well as the tissue. We are a high-throughput lab where all the techs face all their blocks then put them on a block of wet ice prior to microtomy. I am not a fan of freeze sprays, personally. Free ice is much cheaper than a can of spray. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Jenny Vega To: histonet Sent: Fri, Sep 28, 2012 9:40 pm Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only freezing spray. She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay sharp for more time. She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then we will be using less freezing spray. Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to cut even when relying only on freezing spray. I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. Thanks. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Sat Sep 29 09:08:39 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Sat Sep 29 09:08:45 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348927719.94383.YahooMailNeo@web163104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Jenny: Had it been based on technique, you should be the supervisor. Let me go step by step: 1- we always used those gelatin filled trays that are frozen and from the productivity and quality point of views, it is better to trim all the blocks?one tray first and place them back face down to cool. 2- after they have been trimed and cooled, you start cutting one by one 3- using coolant spray is not advisable because it costs too much and although the refrigerant is supposed to be innocuous, it could be a safety hazard 4- the best way to handle a difficult block is: trim?cool in a tray?start going deeper to get the complete area to be sectioned?cool with an ice cube wrapped in gauze?take the final sections. Your productivity will be 1.1 higher that if you trim ? cut each blocks individually. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Jenny Vega To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:39 PM Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only freezing spray. She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go back to my preferred? technique. I feel I get better sections without wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have difficulty getting completed sections? this way and spend more time trying to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay sharp for more time. She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then we will be using less freezing spray. Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to cut even when relying only on freezing spray. I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. Thanks. _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk Sat Sep 29 12:23:29 2012 From: carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk (Hobbs, Carl) Date: Sat Sep 29 12:23:38 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice Message-ID: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738180FB85E48@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Hmmm.... Nobody has yet mentioned the rationale behind the need to cool Pwax blocks. Sure, it makes sectioning easier but....not always. Never forget the "huff"! Let's get back down to microtomy basics, so newbies have an appreciation that sectioning is a mechanical process, as well as an "art-form"? Sure, applies to cryostat, Pwax,vibratome..... Curious Carl Carl Hobbs Histology Manager Wolfson CARD School of Biomedical Sciences Kings College London Guys Campus SE1 1UL Tel: 020 78486813 Fax: 020 78486816 020 78486813 From thisisann <@t> aol.com Sat Sep 29 12:56:19 2012 From: thisisann <@t> aol.com (Ann Specian) Date: Sat Sep 29 12:56:24 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Negative Controls in IHC Message-ID: <8CF6C82DCECFA20-1938-4FB98@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> I have a question in regard to eliminating the use of negative controls when using a non-avidin-biotin detection system. Do you not feel that negative controls may still need to be run in tissues which are likely to be pigmented such as lymph node, skin and liver? We were thinking to eliminate the use of negatives for other tissues (cervical, GI, etc.) only.....What is the general consensus? From perrintoshia <@t> yahoo.com Sat Sep 29 14:19:43 2012 From: perrintoshia <@t> yahoo.com (Toshia Perrin) Date: Sat Sep 29 14:19:49 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS Freezing spray Message-ID: <8EBCE75B-5B54-47E0-BDD4-76532A68805C@yahoo.com> I find that there are several negative effects from freeze spray such as artifacts, safety concerns, cost consideration, etc. I have always used the method you are were taught and my staff uses the same. You can trim the block, cool on ice for 5 minutes then cut the final sections and still maintain above average productivity. I also agree that separate blades should be used for trimming and cutting final sections. This does allow longer usage of blades which lowers cost a pretty significant amount over time. I have always concentrated more on the quality of final slides within a reasonable time frame rather than the actual techniques that the staff techs are using to get there. It does not sound like your supervisor is that flexible and that's an unfortunate situation. Keep your head up and do the best you can. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 29, 2012, at 12:01 PM, histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu wrote: > Send Histonet mailing list submissions to > histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Histonet digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Paraffin and Tissue (Jackie O'Connor) > 2. Caspase 8 for Mouse (Elizabeth Cameron) > 3. Stainer for sale (Adrienne Anderson) > 4. Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 35 (Galina Deyneko) > 5. Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray (Jenny Vega) > 6. Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray (C.D.G.) > 7. Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > (Contact HistoCare) > 8. AW: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray (Gudrun Lang) > 9. RE: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > (joelle weaver) > 10. Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > (Jackie O'Connor) > 11. Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > (Rene J Buesa) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:05:22 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Jackie O'Connor" > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue > To: deshsmith1@gmail.com, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: <8CF6BB294563E1E-1274-49EA7@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > It has been my experience that tissues that remain in paraffin too long (like over a weekend) become brittle and hard. If we are embedding over 300 blocks, those blocks may remain in the embedding station for up to 6 hours - but I personally strongly recommend sticking to your SOP for processing. Besides, if your SOP says paraffin for 3 hours, leaving them longer is a violation of your SOP. > Jackie O' > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Demetria Ross > To: histonet > Sent: Thu, Sep 27, 2012 5:21 pm > Subject: [Histonet] Paraffin and Tissue > > > > I'm curious to know how long can tissue stay on the machine in paraffin > efore it becomes a problem I have left tissue stay in paraffin 30 min-2 > ours before I take it off but not on a daily basis Thanks in advance > ______________________________________________ > istonet mailing list > istonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > ttp://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 17:59:57 +0000 > From: Elizabeth Cameron > Subject: [Histonet] Caspase 8 for Mouse > To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Anyone out there know of a caspase 8 that works well on mouse tissue? > Thanks! > -Liz > > > The information in this email, including attachments, may be confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you believe you received this email by mistake, please notify the sender by return email as soon as possible. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:26:04 -0400 > From: Adrienne Anderson > Subject: [Histonet] Stainer for sale > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: <15FE6F08-1190-4AD7-887E-7B28B38D2099@yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello all, > > We have an automated stainer we are looking to sell. It's a Microm DS50. If interested, please email me. Thanks! > > Adrienne > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:24:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: Galina Deyneko > Subject: [Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 35 > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: > <1348867494.99871.YahooMailClassic@web160205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear Colleagues > I would like to ask again about cell block preparation. of cause I found number of answer on the histonet site and sorry that I ask again. > The cells what I prepare look distorted. Short protocol: 30 minutes of fixation in 10 %NBF, centrifuge 1000 rmr, wash in PBS, centrifuge, re-suspend in histogel and processed in Thermo Shandon with following program: Ethanols70, 70,80, 95,95,100,100,100,Xylenes 3 changes, Wax 3 changes - 1 hour in each station. I also tried short protocol - 30 minutes in each station. > I also would like to try to do OCT embedding to avoid processing anparaffinin embedding. Should I fix the cells before OCT embedding or not? Can I re-suspend directly in OCT or still need to embed in Histogel first and freeze in OCT Histogel block. > Please could you share your protocols and give me some hints. > Thank you and good weekend. > > > Galina Deyneko > Novartis, Cambridge, MA > > 617-871-7613 w > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 > From: Jenny Vega > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > freezing spray. > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay > sharp for more time. > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then > we will be using less freezing spray. > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > Thanks. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 00:04:29 -0300 > From: "C.D.G." > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray > To: histotech411@gmail.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: <201209290004290984.0018B2E0@smtp.montevideo.com.uy> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Freezing spray is better if you use it with discretion. Freezing too much could render sections with artifacts > like partial "holes" on the section, so you must use it with care and not always, as you stated, some > pieces cut better if you don't chill them at all. > The use of ice is possible,but I saw that many times, the drop of water over the blade holder unit, leads to a > slow but progressive corrosion of some of the components that are indispensable for an accurately sectioning work. > Try to begin using the spray taking care of not overcool the materials and you'll soon be feeling comfortable > with this method. > My best regards , > Carlos.- > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 28/09/2012 at 10:39 p.m. Jenny Vega wrote: > >> I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks >> in >> the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor >> because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't >> like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an >> ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech >> school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one >> using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only >> freezing spray. >> >> She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her >> is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but >> unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go >> back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without >> wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I >> sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them >> with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works >> but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have >> difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying >> to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times >> is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades >> get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two >> separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay >> sharp for more time. >> >> She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out >> of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make >> sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then >> we will be using less freezing spray. >> >> Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not >> meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small >> biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard >> and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and >> colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to >> cut even when relying only on freezing spray. >> >> >> >> I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, >> cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time >> comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 23:30:10 -0500 > From: Contact HistoCare > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray > To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi, I have a feeling that the supervisor's motivation for discouraging your personal technique is financial and not procedural. I can't image in a high volume setting where that technique would work, especially when there are various kinds of tissue. Your supervisor's insistence on one way suggests you deal in mainly one type of tissue like skin or GI. > > When you have only one way to skin your cat, figuratively speaking, something (be it ice, freeze spray, or blades) WILL be used in excess. For example, your supervisor's technique would likely run through a lot more blades. To make great slides, you HAVE to have a sharp, high quality blade to cut a great section, period. But using an ice tray to keep your blocks cold helps your blades go a bit farther. > > Remember, patient care should never be compromised; if you need to use a fresh blade to get the best section, I can't imagine any sane and reasonable pathologist who wouldn't side with you. > > A skilled histotech who is proficient in cutting can use ice trays and not waste any time. As a point of reference, I can face(or trim) AND cut 40+ slides at 3 microns in 30 minutes USING an ice tray. That's VERY efficient. > > It is more likely that one would have to wrestle with a warm or room temperature block longer with using only spray to get the best section. > > You are an artist and there are many techniques to get the desired results in creating your masterpiece. I would certainly be receptive to learning different techniques from your supervisor to ADD to your repertoire, but I would be steadfast in finding what works for you , within reason and departmental expenses of course. Also ask for help in ways to be more efficient that utilizes processes you already are familiar with. > > Hope that helps > > www.HistoCare.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:32:35 +0200 > From: "Gudrun Lang" > Subject: AW: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray > To: "'Jenny Vega'" > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: <008d01cd9e1c$fb090e40$f11b2ac0$@gmx.at> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Cooling on ice for 10-15 min renders the block cool enough for trimming and > consecutive cutting without the need of a freezing spray. > We use cooling devices at -15 degrees. They have usually a nice > snow-surface, that gives the block some moisture during cooling. Especially > blocks, that have to be recut, get advantage of this and are easier to cut. > > I think freezing sprays render the block too cool and provide no evan > temperature throughout the block. A completly homogenously cool block is > better to cut. > I also don't like the interrupted workflow with first trimming, then putting > away and then cutting again. - but- I work with a sliding microtome and > trimming goes really fast. > > Gudrun Lang > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Jenny Vega > Gesendet: Samstag, 29. September 2012 04:40 > An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Betreff: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an ice > tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > freezing spray. > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works but > is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have difficulty > getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying to get the > perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times is tedious > using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades get worn > down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two separate > blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay sharp for > more time. > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out of > freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make sense. > It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then we will > be using less freezing spray. > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard and > tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, cool > on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time comparing it > with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:56:49 +0000 > From: joelle weaver > Subject: RE: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray > To: > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Jenny My experience and training is to use some method involving ice or at the very least a cold-retaining tray made to chill blocks. I also was taught this method in histology school , in clinical training at four quite large institutions, and also have used some variation of an ice cooling method in every instance in my career working in clinical and research settings. There are always variations in technique from lab to lab, but freezing spray has been generally discouraged for constant use at the microtome, since it can introduce artifact in sections if over used. ( It is pretty easy to see the effect on the face of the paraffin block, and that is not even under the microscope.) I actually almost never use freezing spray personally for regular paraffin microtomy. I do use it when doing frozen sections on occasion, but then it is typically only for difficult specimens such as fatty breast or soft/fattty lymph nodes that need very cold temperatures. I sometimes use it to cool only the backside of paraffin blocks during embedding when I am being impatient, and I avoid spraying directly on the face, and that is about the extent it of freeze spray's uses for me. Personally, I prefer my blocks quite cold, in fact, one thing I don't like where I currently work , is that blocks are allowed to get to room temperature after removal from the embedding cold plate. I feel that I can more efficiently get good sections when the cold temperature is maintained and uniform though the block, rather than re-cooling a warmed room temp. block. Overall, I would expect constant and direct application of the freezing spray would be more of a problem than anything involving ice, which would "flash freeze" mostly the surface, and not cool throughout, which is why you have to keep spraying it. Of course, I am not talking about leaving the faced block surface on the ice for so long a time that it becomes "water-logged"- but if you are sitting at your microtome and cutting diligently, and not leaving faced pecimens just sit there, I'm not sure how this would be an issue. In general I think the combination of ice and water benefits most specimens ( especially GI and Liver cores, bloody stuff, and other types-that can sometimes be brittle and delicate due to processing)-I feel that the small amount of moisture that transfers from contact with the ice aids the smoothness/ reduces brittleness of the section, reducing "shatter" artifact. I feel that I would be unable to get sections without chatter in hard/dense tissues such as uterus body, cervix, bloody specimens and others without using ice. The only exception for me, might be brain which can cut better warm. I am sure you must be frustrated, but if this is the clear direction of your supervisor, and they are not receptive to making any changes or allowing you to use your preferred technique, and not interested in new different methods, then I am not sure that there would be much that you can do other than comply with their policies. I know it is hard when people are not open to new ideas and techniques . I had have that experience and those feelings quite often over the years, but just try to stay postive, do the best you can. > > > > Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC >> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 >> From: histotech411@gmail.com >> To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray >> >> I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in >> the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor >> because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't >> like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an >> ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech >> school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one >> using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only >> freezing spray. >> >> She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her >> is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but >> unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go >> back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without >> wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I >> sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them >> with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works >> but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have >> difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying >> to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times >> is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades >> get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two >> separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay >> sharp for more time. >> >> She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out >> of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make >> sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then >> we will be using less freezing spray. >> >> Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not >> meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small >> biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard >> and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and >> colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to >> cut even when relying only on freezing spray. >> >> >> >> I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, >> cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time >> comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:41:14 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Jackie O'Connor" > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray > To: histotech411@gmail.com, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: <8CF6C5F39ED7501-B8C-4B86D@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > It has been my experience that using freezing spray will cause artifacts in the paraffin block as well as the tissue. We are a high-throughput lab where all the techs face all their blocks then put them on a block of wet ice prior to microtomy. I am not a fan of freeze sprays, personally. Free ice is much cheaper than a can of spray. > Jackie O' > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jenny Vega > To: histonet > Sent: Fri, Sep 28, 2012 9:40 pm > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > freezing spray. > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay > sharp for more time. > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then > we will be using less freezing spray. > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 07:08:39 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rene J Buesa > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing > Spray > To: Jenny Vega , > "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" > > Message-ID: > <1348927719.94383.YahooMailNeo@web163104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Jenny: > Had it been based on technique, you should be the supervisor. > Let me go step by step: > 1- we always used those gelatin filled trays that are frozen and from the productivity and quality point of views, it is better to trim all the blocks? one tray first and place them back face down to cool. > 2- after they have been trimed and cooled, you start cutting one by one > 3- using coolant spray is not advisable because it costs too much and although the refrigerant is supposed to be innocuous, it could be a safety hazard > 4- the best way to handle a difficult block is: trim???cool in a tray???start going deeper to get the complete area to be sectioned???cool with an ice cube wrapped in gauze???take the final sections. > Your productivity will be 1.1 higher that if you trim ??? cut each blocks individually. > Ren?? J. > > > ________________________________ > From: Jenny Vega > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:39 PM > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > freezing spray. > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > back to my preferred? technique. I feel I get better sections without > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > difficulty getting completed sections? this way and spend more time trying > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay > sharp for more time. > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then > we will be using less freezing spray. > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 36 > ***************************************** From histotech411 <@t> gmail.com Sat Sep 29 17:26:38 2012 From: histotech411 <@t> gmail.com (Jenny Vega) Date: Sat Sep 29 17:26:43 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks everybody for your answers. I cant respond them all but I concluded that the best way to get good sections is too chill the blocks on ice because I agree that it facilitates the process. I really don't understand why my supervisor depends so much on freezing sprays to cut and the pathologist has never complained about artifacts caused by them but I do believe that they are present because I have seen them getting formed. It makes sectioning difficult because you try to get sections free of holes and that contributes to the problem. At my lab is the same thing. My supervisor is in charge of the embedding and she just use the ice only for hardening the paraffin block. We don't have a standard embedding center with cold plate. Since is a small lab we just have a heating plate where we handle the specimens and place them in the molds and we cool them on ice trays. After they are removed from the molds they are placed on the counter in numerical order and they reach room temperature and get warm. I do think that if they get cold and moistened since the beginning it can facilitate the sectioning process except for certain tissues that are not well processed. In my lab I change the reagents in the tissue processor weekly but they get dirty too quickly because we processes a lot of breast and colon tissue so is hard to get perfectly processed tissue daily. We are under a tight budget and we can't waste materials too quickly. This situation with my supervisor has caused me a lot of frustration. I have noticed that every tech has their own method to do things but unfortunately there are people who are not receptive to new ideas and they immediately criticize and say you are wrong specially if you are young and you have recently started your career. I have though on several occasions that all I learned in histotech school have been worthless because everybody in the lab does things differently and this has made me question my ability of being a good tech because I have experienced difficulty using their microtomy technique but I have realized that I am not wrong. Another issue was the use of microtome blades. Since I started my supervisor has told me to use the minimum amount of blades as possible because we are under a tight budget but I have noticed that some of those blades are of poor quality and since we cut a lot of tissues that are hard, calcified or have sutures they wear the blades too quickly. It's hard to cut many blocks using only one blade that you use to trim and section. I have realized that I am successful obtaining good sections when I chill the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes and change the blade immediately after encountering difficulties with a block. It's not worth to sacrifice the quality of the samples just to be cheap and save some money. My supervisor is a great person and tech with a lot of experience but she is not very open to new ideas. Her demands to save money can be unrealistic when the correct technique is not being used . With her technique of course you are going to waste excess of freezing spray and blades but she doesn't understand this. Perhaps I need a change of environment which is unfortunate but is difficult to work like this. Thanks everyone for their input On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:56 AM, joelle weaver wrote: > Jenny > > My experience and training is to use some method involving ice or at the > very least a cold-retaining tray made to chill blocks. I also was taught > this method in histology school , in clinical training at four quite > large institutions, and also have used some variation of an ice cooling > method in every instance in my career working in clinical and research > settings. There are always variations in technique from lab to lab, but > freezing spray has been generally discouraged for constant use at the > microtome, since it can introduce artifact in sections if over used. ( It > is pretty easy to see the effect on the face of the paraffin block, and > that is not even under the microscope.) I actually almost never use > freezing spray personally for regular paraffin microtomy. I do use it when > doing frozen sections on occasion, but then it is typically only for > difficult specimens such as fatty breast or soft/fattty lymph nodes that > need very cold temperatures. I sometimes use it to cool only the backside > of paraffin blocks during embedding when I am being impatient, and I avoid > spraying directly on the face, and that is about the extent it of freeze > spray's uses for me. > > Personally, I prefer my blocks quite cold, in fact, one thing I don't like > where I currently work , is that blocks are allowed to get to room > temperature after removal from the embedding cold plate. I feel that I can > more efficiently get good sections when the cold temperature is maintained > and uniform though the block, rather than re-cooling a warmed room temp. > block. Overall, I would expect constant and direct application of the > freezing spray would be more of a problem than anything involving ice, > which would "flash freeze" mostly the surface, and not cool throughout, > which is why you have to keep spraying it. Of course, I am not talking > about leaving the faced block surface on the ice for so long a time that it > becomes "water-logged"- but if you are sitting at your microtome and > cutting diligently, and not leaving faced pecimens just sit there, I'm not > sure how this would be an issue. > > In general I think the combination of ice and water benefits most > specimens ( especially GI and Liver cores, bloody stuff, and other > types-that can sometimes be brittle and delicate due to processing)-I feel > that the small amount of moisture that transfers from contact with the > ice aids the smoothness/ reduces brittleness of the section, > reducing "shatter" artifact. I feel that I would be unable to get sections > without chatter in hard/dense tissues such as uterus body, cervix, bloody > specimens and others without using ice. The only exception for me, might be > brain which can cut better warm. > > I am sure you must be frustrated, but if this is the clear direction of > your supervisor, and they are not receptive to making any changes or > allowing you to use your preferred technique, and not interested in > new different methods, then I am not sure that there would be much that > you can do other than comply with their policies. I know it is hard when > people are not open to new ideas and techniques . I had have > that experience and those feelings quite often over the years, but just > try to stay postive, do the best you can. > > > > Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > > > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 > > From: histotech411@gmail.com > > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > > > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks > in > > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she > doesn't > > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in > histotech > > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by > one > > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > > freezing spray. > > > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to > her > > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of > minutes. I > > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > > difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying > > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the > blades > > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they > stay > > sharp for more time. > > > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks > then > > we will be using less freezing spray. > > > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast > and > > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious > to > > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > Histonet mailing list > > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Sat Sep 29 18:11:53 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Sat Sep 29 18:11:59 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: JennyYou don't need to respond to this, but I will post in case there is anyone else out there who is going through the same experiences and feeling discouraged. There are many people in the field like this. I have been out there at least a little while and I went through the same response once out of histology school and get attitude all the time, still to this day, even though I have jumped through all the usual "hoops" at this point. I can tell you that while working in some labs, I thought of quitting histology almost weekly because I got so sick of this kind of thing People have gotten into the field in various ways, and they sometimes get into ruts and they don't get out there much to learn all the new techniques and information. People coming in with ideas threaten the "status quo", and sometimes it is just difficult many people to change. I haven't quit histology yet though, and you shouldn't let other people drive you out or make you doubt yourself either. Trust me, we need educated and trained people in this field in a desperate way. Look, we all have stuff to learn, new and old! If you stop learning and believe you "know it all", you are a real drag to everyone and holding back others who want to learn and grow. If you are a newer tech, I think that can be a plus. You are fresh and full of enthusiasm and new ideas. The "seasoned" can share what they have learned from time and experience, and you can bring new ideas and your fresh enthusiasm and energy- I don't see why that can't be a "win-win". Anyhow, all of this are just my opinions, and I may get slammed for these comments like I have many times before, but as far as I can tell from what you have posted, you are not "wrong", and your techniques seem reasonable for the hospital clinical setting. In addition, you seem to understand why they work for you and the technical rationale behind them. To me this is good. Many people have been taught how to do things, but not why. We need more people who want to know why and who care about quality. Please read the other posts about blades ( they said it best already) but I feel that is crap about skimping on them ( sorry) . No patient is worth less than any disposable blade. That is why they call them disposable. You should not waste supplies, that is irresponsible, but within reason you need decent supplies to get the best quality you can possible can. Ice is cheap, much cheaper than freeze it spray..(as someone mentioned and a good point) .. so there is no valid economic/operational reason there that I can see to justify any of that. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 18:26:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray From: histotech411@gmail.com To: joelleweaver@hotmail.com; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Thanks everybody for your answers. I cant respond them all but I concluded that the best way to get good sections is too chill the blocks on ice because I agree that it facilitates the process. I really don't understand why my supervisor depends so much on freezing sprays to cut and the pathologist has never complained about artifacts caused by them but I do believe that they are present because I have seen them getting formed. It makes sectioning difficult because you try to get sections free of holes and that contributes to the problem. At my lab is the same thing. My supervisor is in charge of the embedding and she just use the ice only for hardening the paraffin block. We don't have a standard embedding center with cold plate. Since is a small lab we just have a heating plate where we handle the specimens and place them in the molds and we cool them on ice trays. After they are removed from the molds they are placed on the counter in numerical order and they reach room temperature and get warm. I do think that if they get cold and moistened since the beginning it can facilitate the sectioning process except for certain tissues that are not well processed. In my lab I change the reagents in the tissue processor weekly but they get dirty too quickly because we processes a lot of breast and colon tissue so is hard to get perfectly processed tissue daily. We are under a tight budget and we can't waste materials too quickly. This situation with my supervisor has caused me a lot of frustration. I have noticed that every tech has their own method to do things but unfortunately there are people who are not receptive to new ideas and they immediately criticize and say you are wrong specially if you are young and you have recently started your career. I have though on several occasions that all I learned in histotech school have been worthless because everybody in the lab does things differently and this has made me question my ability of being a good tech because I have experienced difficulty using their microtomy technique but I have realized that I am not wrong. Another issue was the use of microtome blades. Since I started my supervisor has told me to use the minimum amount of blades as possible because we are under a tight budget but I have noticed that some of those blades are of poor quality and since we cut a lot of tissues that are hard, calcified or have sutures they wear the blades too quickly. It's hard to cut many blocks using only one blade that you use to trim and section. I have realized that I am successful obtaining good sections when I chill the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes and change the blade immediately after encountering difficulties with a block. It's not worth to sacrifice the quality of the samples just to be cheap and save some money. My supervisor is a great person and tech with a lot of experience but she is not very open to new ideas. Her demands to save money can be unrealistic when the correct technique is not being used . With her technique of course you are going to waste excess of freezing spray and blades but she doesn't understand this. Perhaps I need a change of environment which is unfortunate but is difficult to work like this. Thanks everyone for their input On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:56 AM, joelle weaver wrote: Jenny My experience and training is to use some method involving ice or at the very least a cold-retaining tray made to chill blocks. I also was taught this method in histology school , in clinical training at four quite large institutions, and also have used some variation of an ice cooling method in every instance in my career working in clinical and research settings. There are always variations in technique from lab to lab, but freezing spray has been generally discouraged for constant use at the microtome, since it can introduce artifact in sections if over used. ( It is pretty easy to see the effect on the face of the paraffin block, and that is not even under the microscope.) I actually almost never use freezing spray personally for regular paraffin microtomy. I do use it when doing frozen sections on occasion, but then it is typically only for difficult specimens such as fatty breast or soft/fattty lymph nodes that need very cold temperatures. I sometimes use it to cool only the backside of paraffin blocks during embedding when I am being impatient, and I avoid spraying directly on the face, and that is about the extent it of freeze spray's uses for me. Personally, I prefer my blocks quite cold, in fact, one thing I don't like where I currently work , is that blocks are allowed to get to room temperature after removal from the embedding cold plate. I feel that I can more efficiently get good sections when the cold temperature is maintained and uniform though the block, rather than re-cooling a warmed room temp. block. Overall, I would expect constant and direct application of the freezing spray would be more of a problem than anything involving ice, which would "flash freeze" mostly the surface, and not cool throughout, which is why you have to keep spraying it. Of course, I am not talking about leaving the faced block surface on the ice for so long a time that it becomes "water-logged"- but if you are sitting at your microtome and cutting diligently, and not leaving faced pecimens just sit there, I'm not sure how this would be an issue. In general I think the combination of ice and water benefits most specimens ( especially GI and Liver cores, bloody stuff, and other types-that can sometimes be brittle and delicate due to processing)-I feel that the small amount of moisture that transfers from contact with the ice aids the smoothness/ reduces brittleness of the section, reducing "shatter" artifact. I feel that I would be unable to get sections without chatter in hard/dense tissues such as uterus body, cervix, bloody specimens and others without using ice. The only exception for me, might be brain which can cut better warm. I am sure you must be frustrated, but if this is the clear direction of your supervisor, and they are not receptive to making any changes or allowing you to use your preferred technique, and not interested in new different methods, then I am not sure that there would be much that you can do other than comply with their policies. I know it is hard when people are not open to new ideas and techniques . I had have that experience and those feelings quite often over the years, but just try to stay postive, do the best you can. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 > From: histotech411@gmail.com > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks in > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she doesn't > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in histotech > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by one > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > freezing spray. > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to her > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes. I > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the blades > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay > sharp for more time. > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then > we will be using less freezing spray. > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast and > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious to > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org Sat Sep 29 18:26:53 2012 From: Joyce.Weems <@t> emoryhealthcare.org (Weems, Joyce K.) Date: Sat Sep 29 18:27:02 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Negative Controls in IHC In-Reply-To: <8CF6C82DCECFA20-1938-4FB98@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF6C82DCECFA20-1938-4FB98@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: We have eliminated them all per the CAP guidelines. Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.weems@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's Hospital and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message, and reply to the sender regarding the error in a separate email. -----Original Message----- From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Ann Specian Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 1:56 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Negative Controls in IHC I have a question in regard to eliminating the use of negative controls when using a non-avidin-biotin detection system. Do you not feel that negative controls may still need to be run in tissues which are likely to be pigmented such as lymph node, skin and liver? We were thinking to eliminate the use of negatives for other tissues (cervical, GI, etc.) only.....What is the general consensus? _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Sat Sep 29 18:39:49 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Sat Sep 29 18:39:54 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice In-Reply-To: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738180FB85E48@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> References: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738180FB85E48@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Carl I think what you are referring to is a mention about the practical aspect of providing support (from the microcrystalline structure of the wax) to the tissue during sectioning against shearing effects....and I will add the comment that the physical properties and performance of the paraffin media in doing this job are partially related to temperature, with increasing hardness and support enhanced by cooling. Of course temperature is not the only factor to be considered ( length of the backbone, resins, plastics and other chemical additives come to mind ), but temperature is the one variable that can be manipulated easily by the histotech at the microtome. True there may be some specimens that would need a different set of factors for optimal sections, but in my experience this is a very small number of specimens for paraffin sections, as compared to those types in which the technique of cooling the blocks is beneficial to high quality sections. I would agree that there is a mechanical aspect, as well as certain physics involved in cutting at the microtome, but I think technique and attention to fine details, definately makes a difference in the final slide quality. Just my *opinion* Or did I misunderstand your post? Was it the actual paraffin chemistry you are asking the group to comment about? Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: carl.hobbs@kcl.ac.uk > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:23:29 +0000 > Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice > > Hmmm.... > Nobody has yet mentioned the rationale behind the need to cool Pwax blocks. > Sure, it makes sectioning easier but....not always. > Never forget the "huff"! > > Let's get back down to microtomy basics, so newbies have an appreciation that sectioning is a mechanical process, as well as an "art-form"? > Sure, applies to cryostat, Pwax,vibratome..... > > Curious Carl > > > > > Carl Hobbs > Histology Manager > Wolfson CARD > School of Biomedical Sciences > Kings College London > Guys Campus > SE1 1UL > Tel: 020 78486813 > Fax: 020 78486816 > 020 78486813 > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Sun Sep 30 09:07:26 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Sun Sep 30 09:07:30 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Negative Controls in IHC In-Reply-To: <8CF6C82DCECFA20-1938-4FB98@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CF6C82DCECFA20-1938-4FB98@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1349014046.11958.YahooMailNeo@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Negative controls for IHC has been discussed before many times but it keeps pupping up every noew and then. This is my take on it: 1- if CAP requires them, so then? do it. You do not want to have a negative issue in your inspection 2- it is always good to have them for quality control of your procedure and to prevent any legal issues down the road 3- if I have a case requiring several antibodies, I only run a negative control for the tissue series (the block in question) but not for every antibody but if in that antibodies series there are different detection systems, I run a negative control for each Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Ann Specian To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 1:56 PM Subject: [Histonet] Negative Controls in IHC I have a question in regard to eliminating the use of negative controls when using a non-avidin-biotin detection system. Do you not feel that negative controls may still need to be run in tissues which are likely to be pigmented such as lymph node, skin and liver? We were thinking to eliminate the use of negatives for other tissues (cervical, GI, etc.) only.....What is the general consensus? _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com Sun Sep 30 09:17:01 2012 From: rjbuesa <@t> yahoo.com (Rene J Buesa) Date: Sun Sep 30 09:17:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1349014621.99226.YahooMailNeo@web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Jenny: There is a saying that "life is too short to drink cheap wine". In the same way life is too short to be frustrated daily working at a place where work is like a daily uphill battle. For what you describe you know your trade. Start looking for another place although do not expect that your ideas will always?be well received. "Older, trained on the job, and with lots of experiences" supervisors usually are not very open to suggestions, especially when those ideas conflict with what they are used to do because they do not know the scientific basis of what they are doing. The less open to suggestions a person is, the more ignorant they are likely to be. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Jenny Vega To: joelle weaver ; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray Thanks everybody for your answers. I cant respond them all but I concluded that the best way to get good sections is too chill the blocks on ice because I agree that it facilitates the process. I really don't understand why my supervisor depends so much on freezing sprays to cut and the pathologist has never complained about artifacts caused by them but I do believe that they are present because I have seen them getting formed. It makes sectioning difficult because you try to get sections free of holes and that contributes to the problem. At my lab is the same thing. My supervisor is in charge of the embedding and she just use the ice only for hardening the paraffin block. We don't have a standard embedding center with cold plate. Since is a small lab we just have a heating plate where we handle the specimens and place them in the molds and we cool them on ice trays. After they are removed from the molds they are placed on the counter in numerical order and they reach room temperature and get warm. I do think that if they get cold and moistened since the beginning it can facilitate the sectioning process except for certain tissues that are not well processed. In my lab I change the reagents in the tissue processor weekly but they get dirty too quickly because we processes a lot of breast and colon tissue so is hard to get perfectly processed tissue daily. We are under a tight budget and we can't waste materials too quickly. This situation with my supervisor has caused me a lot of frustration. I have noticed that every tech has their own method to do things but unfortunately there are people who are not receptive to new ideas and they immediately criticize and say you are wrong specially if you are young and you have recently started your career. I have though on several occasions that all I learned in histotech school have been worthless because everybody in the lab does things differently and this has made me question my ability of being a good tech because I have experienced difficulty using their microtomy technique but I have realized that I am not wrong. Another issue was the use of microtome blades. Since I started my supervisor has told me to use the minimum amount of blades as possible because we are under a tight budget but I have noticed that some of those blades are of poor quality and since we cut a lot of tissues that are hard, calcified or have sutures they wear the blades too quickly. It's hard to cut many blocks using? only one blade that you use to trim and section. I have realized that I am successful obtaining good sections when I chill the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes and change the blade immediately after encountering difficulties with a block. It's not worth to sacrifice the quality of the samples just to be cheap and save some money. My supervisor is a great person and tech with a lot of experience but she is not very open to new ideas. Her demands to save money can be unrealistic when the correct technique is not being used . With her technique of course you are going to waste excess of freezing spray and blades but she doesn't understand this. Perhaps I need a change of environment which is unfortunate but is difficult to work like this. Thanks everyone for their input On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:56 AM, joelle weaver wrote: >? Jenny > > My experience and training is to use some method involving ice or at the > very least a cold-retaining tray made to chill blocks. I also was taught > this method in histology school , in clinical training at four quite > large institutions,? and also have used some variation of an ice cooling > method in every instance in my career working in clinical and research > settings. There are always variations in technique from lab to lab, but > freezing spray has been generally discouraged? for constant use at the > microtome, since it can introduce artifact in sections if over used. ( It > is pretty easy to see the effect on the face of the paraffin block, and > that is not even under the microscope.) I actually almost never use > freezing spray personally for regular paraffin microtomy. I? do use it when > doing frozen sections on occasion, but then it is typically only for > difficult specimens such as fatty breast or soft/fattty lymph nodes that > need very cold temperatures. I sometimes use it to cool only the backside > of paraffin blocks during embedding when I am being impatient, and I avoid > spraying directly on the face, and that is about the extent it of freeze > spray's uses for me. > > Personally, I prefer my blocks quite cold, in fact, one thing I don't like > where I currently work , is that blocks are allowed to get to room > temperature after removal from the embedding cold plate. I feel that I can > more efficiently get good sections when the cold temperature is maintained > and uniform though the block,? rather than re-cooling a warmed room temp. > block.? Overall, I would expect constant and direct application of the > freezing spray would be more of a problem than anything involving ice, > which would "flash freeze" mostly the surface, and not cool throughout, > which is why you have to keep spraying it.? Of course, I am not talking > about leaving the faced block surface on the ice for so long a time that it > becomes "water-logged"- but if you are sitting at your microtome and > cutting diligently, and not leaving faced pecimens just sit there, I'm not > sure how this would be an issue. > > In general I think the combination of ice and water benefits most > specimens? ( especially GI and Liver cores, bloody stuff, and other > types-that can sometimes be brittle and delicate due to processing)-I feel > that the small amount of moisture that transfers from contact with the > ice aids the smoothness/ reduces brittleness of the section, > reducing "shatter" artifact. I feel that I would be unable to get sections > without chatter in hard/dense tissues such as uterus body, cervix, bloody > specimens and others without using ice. The only exception for me, might be > brain which can cut better warm. > >? I am sure you must be frustrated, but if this is the clear direction of > your supervisor, and they are not receptive to making any changes or > allowing you to use your preferred technique, and not interested in > new different methods,? then? I am not sure that there would be much that > you can do other than comply with their policies. I know it is hard when > people are not open to new ideas and techniques . I? had have > that experience and? those feelings? quite often over the years, but just > try to stay postive, do the best you can. > > > > Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > > > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 > > From: histotech411@gmail.com > > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > > > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks > in > > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she > doesn't > > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in > histotech > > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by > one > > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > > freezing spray. > > > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to > her > > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of > minutes. I > > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > > difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying > > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the > blades > > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they > stay > > sharp for more time. > > > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks > then > > we will be using less freezing spray. > > > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast > and > > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious > to > > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > Histonet mailing list > > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From madary <@t> verizon.net Sun Sep 30 09:41:25 2012 From: madary <@t> verizon.net (madary@verizon.net) Date: Sun Sep 30 09:41:39 2012 Subject: [Histonet] freeze spray vs ic for microtomy There is a petient on the other side of the coverslip Message-ID: <21269645.1383484.1349016085994.JavaMail.root@vms170019> &nb method, and When Lee Luna wa are as varied as technici putting out an acceptable number and your boss needs to accept your method as on Regarding freeze sprays, never been a big fan, I sti believe there are safe for the ozone. Respect your mgrs differenc and prove to her you can be just as effective. I have been on both side several times SOmetimes you have is a person on the other s Nick(Rocky) Madary, HT/HTL(ASCP)QIHC < On 09/29/12, [DEL: histonet-request@lists.utsouthwestern.edu :DEL] wrote: &nbs [1]histonet@lists.u To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide [2]http://lists.utsouthwestern.ed or, via email, send a message with subje [3]histonet-request@lists.utsout You can reach the person managing the list at [4]histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu When r than "Re: Today's Topics: 1. Re: Pa 2. Caspase 8 for Mouse (Elizabeth Ca 3. Stainer for sale (Adrienne Anderson) 4. Re: Histonet Digest 5. Cooling paraffin blocks with ice 6. Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice 7. Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Fre (Contact HistoCare) 8. AW: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin bl Spray (Gudrun Lang) 9. RE: Cooling paraffi (joelle weaver) 10. Re: Cooling (Jackie O'Connor) 11. Re: (Rene J Buesa) < -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:05:22 -0400 (EDT) From Subject: Re: [Histonet] Para To: [6]deshsmith1@gmail.com, histonet@li Message-ID: <8CF6BB[7]294563E1E-1274-49EA7@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Content-T It has been my experience long (like over a weekend) become embedding over 300 blocks, those blocks may rem station for up to 6 hours - but I personally strongly sticking to your SOP for processing. Besides, if your SOP says pa raffin for 3 hours, leaving them longer is a violation of your SOP. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Demetria Ross < To: histonet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Colleagues I would like to ask again about cell block preparat found number of answer on the histonet site and sorry that again. The cells what I prepare look distorted. Short protocol: 30 of fixation in 10 %NBF, centrifuge 1000 rmr, wash in PBS, ce ntrifuge, re-suspend in histogel and processed in Thermo Shandon with follo changes, Wax 3 protocol - 30 minutes I also would like to try to do OCT embedding to avoid anparaffinin embedding. Should I fix the cells before OCT embedd or not? Can I re-suspend directly in OCT or still need to embed in Hist Please could you sha Thank you and good weekend. Galina Deyneko Novartis, Cambridge, MA 617-871-761 ------------------------------ Mess Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 From: Jenny Vega <[20] Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin bloc Spray To: [21]histonet@lists.utsou Message-ID: Content-Type: te I want to know what is your preferred blocks in the microtome everyday. At work I because we have different ways of d doesn't like to use the technique where an ice tray and then make a secti histotech school. Instead she just t by one using the same blade un only freezing spray. Sh to heris a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but unf to go b wrin minutes. I them with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique worksbut is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have diff trying to times blades< section. I prefer tw separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they sharp for more time. She discourages the use of ice but the running out of freezing spray for the frozen sec make sense. It is obvious that if she en blocks then we will be using less freezing s Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blo are not meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot small biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can hard and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to breast and colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue th tedious to cut even when relying only on freezing spray. I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of t comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. Thanks. ------------------------------ Me Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 00:04:29 -0300 From: "C.D.G." <[23]latecor@montevideo.com.uy> Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling par Freezing Spray To: histotech411@gmail.co Message-ID: & lt;2012092[25]90004290984.0018B2E0@smtp.montevideo.com. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Freez much could like partial "holes" on the section, so and not always, as you stated, some pieces cut The use of ice is possible,but I water over the blade holder unit, leads t slow but progressive corrosion of some of the components that are i ndispensable for an accurately sectioning work. Try to begin using the s materials and you'll soon be feeling c with this method. My best regards , Carlos.- ******* On 28/09/2012 at 10:39 p.m. Jenny V >I want to know what is your preferred method for cutt blocks >in >the microtome everyday. At work I am h supervisor >because we have different ways of do doesn't >like to use the technique wh on an >ice tray and then make histotech >school. Instead by one >using th only >freezi > >She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray to her >is a waste of time and that is why I have >unfortunately some blocks are extremely dif to go >back to my preferred technique. I fee without >wrinkles when I chill and soak the b minutes. I >sometimes use freeze spray w them >with ice I don't need t works >but is more succes >difficulty getting c trying >to get the per times >is tedio blades >g prefer two >separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they >sharp for more time. > >She discourages the use of running out >of freezing spray fo make >sense. It is ob blocks then >we will > >Another reason she discourages are not >meant to be chilled whic small >biopsies such as gas hard >and tear off fr breast and >colon b tedious to > > > > & the trim,< waste of time >comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned . > > > >Thanks. >___________________________ >Histonet mailing list > >[26]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/hist ------------------------------ M Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 23:30:10 -0500 From: Contact HistoCa Subject: [Histonet] Cooling para Spray To: "histonet@l <[28]histonet@lists.utsouthwes Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cooling on ice trimming and consecutiv We use cooling devices a snow-surface, that gives the blo Especially blocks, that have to be recu to cut. I think freezing spr evan temperature throughout is better to cut. I a puttingaway and then cutting again. - but- I work with a sliding microtome andtrimming goes really fast. Gudrun Lang -----Urspr? Von: [34]histonet-bounces@lists [[35]mailto:histonet-bounces@li von Jenny Vega Gesendet: Samstag, An: [36]histonet@lists.utsouthwester Betreff: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freez Spray I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting p blocks in the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues wit supervisor because we have different ways of doing things like for doesn't like to use the technique where you first trim the t on an ice tray and then make a section. That is how I lea histotech school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blo by one using the same blade until it wears out and only freezing spray. She doesn't like to coo to her is a waste of time unfortunately some block to go back to my preferred t wrinkles when I chill and minutes. I sometimes use freeze them with ice I don't nee works but is more success difficulty getting comple get the perfect sect tedious using this worn down quic separate blades, sharp for mo She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we a running out of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly whi make sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice t we will be using less freezing spray. Another are not meant small biopsi hard and t and c tedious to< I want to k trim, cool on ice comparing it w Thank _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing l [37]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [38]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet< ------------------------------ Message: 9 From: joelle weaver <[39]joe Subject: RE: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin b Freezing Spray To: <[40]histotech411@gmail.com> Cc: [41]histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Messag C Jenny My experie or at the very least a also was taught this method in training at four quite large institutions, variation of an ice cooling method in every instanc working in clinical and research settings. There are always variations in technique from lab to lab, but freezing spray has been genera can introduce a to see the effect on even under the microscope.) spray personally for regular paraffin doing frozen sections on occasion, but then it difficult specimens such as fatty breast or soft/fat that need very cold temperatures. I sometimes use it to coo only the backside of paraffin blocks during embedding when I am being about the prefer my blocks qu currently work , is that temperature after removal from the embedd I can more efficiently get good sections when t is maintained and uniform though the block, rather than warmed room temp. block. Overall, I would expect constant and application of the freezing spray would be more of a problem than a nything involving ice, which would "flash freeze" mostly the surface, and n Of course, I the ice for so lon you are sitting at your mic diligently, and not leaving faced pecimens just sit t sure how this would be an issue. In general I think the combi of ice and water benefits most specimens ( especially GI and Liver c ores, bloody stuff, and other types-that can sometimes be brittle and delic that transf reduces brittleness of t feel that I would be unable to g hard/dense tissues such as uterus body, cerv others without using ice. The only exception for m which can cut better warm. I am sure you must be frustrat this is the clear direction of your supervisor, and they are not receptive to making any changes or allowing you to use your preferred tech not sure that other than comply with their polici are not open to new ideas and techniques experience and those feelings quite often over the years, try to stay postive, do the best you can. Joelle > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400< [43]histotech411@gmail.com > To: [44]histo > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraff Spray > > I want to know what blocks in > the microto supervisor > because she doesn't > on an> ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in hi > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 mic one by one > using the same blade until it wears out and she coo only > freezing spray. > > She doesn't lik according to her > is a w > unfort have to go > without &g of minutes > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her works > but is more successful when the blocks are well pro > difficulty getting completed sections this way and s trying > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have other times > is tedious using this technique. Anoth the blades > get worn down quicker when you prefer two > separate blades, one to they stay > sharp for more > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains t running out > of freezing spray for the frozen sections to doesn't make > sense. It is obvious that if she encou blocks then > we will be using less freezing > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is t are not > meant to be chilled which is pretty underst small > biopsies such as gastric and skin and too hard > and tear off from the block so I breast and > colon biopsies on ice b tedious to > cut even when > > > > I want t trim, > coo time > c mentioned. > > > > Thanks. > _______________________________ > Histonet mailing list > [45]Histon > [46]http: ------- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:41: From: "Jackie O'Connor" <[47]b427297@aol.com> Subj Freezing Spray< [49]histonet@lists.utsouthw Message-ID: <8CF6C[50]5F39ED7 501-B8C-4B86D@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/pla It has been my experience that using fr artifacts in the paraffin block as well as the tiss high-throughput lab where all the techs face all their blocks put them on a block of wet ice prior to microtomy. I am not a fan of f spray. Jackie O' -----Original Message----- From: Jenny Vega <[51]histotech411@gmail.com> To: histonet <[52]histonet@ Sent: Fri, Sep 28, 2012 9:40 pm Subj Spray I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin block the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervis or because we have different ways of doing things like for example she d oesn't like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool i on an ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut i histotech school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 micr by one using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the freezing spray. She doesn't like to cool the blocks to her is a waste of time and that is w unfortunately some blocks are extreme to go back to my preferred technique. I f wrinkles when I chill and soak the blo minutes. I sometimes use freeze spray when th them with ice I don't need to use free works but is more successful when the difficulty getting completed sections trying to get the perfect section. Sometime times is tedious using this technique. A blades get worn down quicker when you prefer two separate blades, one to trim they stay sharp for more time. < running ou of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't ma sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks then we will be using less freezing spray. Another reason she di are not meant to be chilled small biopsies such as ga hard and tear off from breast and colon biopsies tedious to cut even w I want to know if it's c trim, cool on ice and section comparing it with other way Thanks. _______ Histonet mailing list [53]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, From: Rene J Buesa <[54]rjbuesa@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Fr eezing Spray To: Jenny Vega <[55]histotech411@gmail.com>, "[56]histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" <[57]histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu> Message-ID: <134892771< href="mailto:9.94383.YahooMailNeo@web163104.mail.bf target=_blank>9.94383.YahooMailNeo@web163104.mail.bf1.yahoo. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jenny: H Let me go s 1- we always used those gelatin filled trays that are froze from the productivity and quality point of views, it is better to tri m all the blocks? one tray first and place them back face down to 2- after they have been trimed and cooled, you start cutting one one 3- using coolant spray is not advisable because it costs too muc and although the refrigerant is supposed to be innocuous, it could be a s 4- the best way to handle a difficult block is: trim? ??cool in a tray???start going deeper to get the c cube wrapped Your productivity wi ??? cut each blocks indivi Ren?? J. ________________________________From: Jenny Vega <[58]histotech411@gmail.com> To: [59]histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Friday, September 28, 20 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Fre Spray I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting blocks in the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues w supervisor because we have different ways of doing things like fo doesn't like to use the technique where you first trim the an ice tray and then make a section. That is how I l histotech school. Instead she just trims and cuts the b by one using the same blade until it wears out an only freezing spray. She doesn't like to c to her is a waste of tim unfortunately some blo to go back to my preferred without wrinkles wh minutes. I sometim them with i works but i difficulty time trying< days but other time is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the bl get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I pref er two separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they stay sharp for more time. She discourages the use of ice bu running out of freezing spray for the froze make sense. It is obvious that if s blocks then we will be using less freez Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that som are not meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I c small biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they hard and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I pref breast and colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tiss tedious to cut even when relying only on freezing spray.< I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefe trim, cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I menti Thanks. ___________________________________________ Histonet mailing list [60]Histonet@lists.utsouthwester [61]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/ ------------------------------ Histonet mailing list [62]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [63]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet End of Histonet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 36 ************************* References 1. file://localhost/tmp/3D 2. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.ed=/ 3. 3D"mailto:histonet-requ 4. 3D"mailto:histonet-owner@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 5. 3D"mailto:b427297@aol.c 6. 3D"mailto:deshsmith1@gma 7. 3D"mailto:294563E1E-1274-49EA7@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com" 8. 3D"mailto:deshsmith1@gmail.com" 9. file://localhost/tmp/3D 10. 3D"mailto:Elizabeth.Cameron@jax.org" 11. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern 12. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 13. 3D"mailto:BB2FF93398E14464CCE8@ 14. 3D"mailto:rennie1108@yahoo.com" 15. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwest 16. 3D"mailto:D7-887E-7B28B3 17. file://localhost/tmp/3D"m 18. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 19. 3D"mailto:871.YahooMailClassic@web160 20. 3D"mailto:histotech411@gmail.com" 21. file://localhost/tmp/3D"mai 22. 3D"mailto:hEYGhYWvDWE0L8mVVVSA@mail.gmail.com" 23. 3D"mailto:latecor@montevideo.com.uy" 24. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern. 25. 3D"mailto:90004290984.0018B2E0@smtp.m 26. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/hist 27. 3D"mailto:contact@histocare.com" 28. 3D"mailto:h 29. 3D"mailto:B0-8AC7-1052C5E0F14A@histocare.com" 30. 3D"http://www.histocare.c=/ 31. 3D"mailto:gu.lang@gmx.at" 32. 3D"mailto:histotech411@gmail.com" 33. file://localhost/tmp/3D"mailto 34. 3D"mailto:histon 35. 3D"mailto:histonet-b 36. 3D"mailto:hist 37. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern. 38. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet" 39. 3D"mailto:joelleweaver@hotmail.com" 40. ="mailto:histotech411@gmail.com" 41. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthw 42. 3D"mailto:FA400A20352F 43. 3D"mailto:histotech411@gmail.com" 44. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 45. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 46. 3D"http: 47. ="mailto:b427297@aol.com" 48. 3D"mailto:histotech411@gmail.com" 49. file://localhost/tmp/3D"mailto 50. file://localhost/tmp/3D"mailt 51. 3D"mailto:histotech411@gmail.com" 52. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 53. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 54. 3D"mailto:rjbuesa@yahoo.com" 55. file://localhost/tmp/3D"mailto 56. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 57. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 58. 3D"mailto:histotech411@g 59. 3D"mailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 60. 3D"mailto:Hist 61. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/ 62. 3D"mailto:Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 63. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet" From akemiat3377 <@t> yahoo.com Sun Sep 30 11:20:15 2012 From: akemiat3377 <@t> yahoo.com (Akemi Allison) Date: Sun Sep 30 11:20:20 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray In-Reply-To: <1349014621.99226.YahooMailNeo@web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1349014621.99226.YahooMailNeo@web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1349022015.53188.YahooMailNeo@web113818.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Well said Rene! ?In my 40 plus years as a supervisor, manager, technical support manager, and consultant; I have come across a broad spectrum of experienced and inexperienced histologists. ?Their knowledge base may be limited to their own experiences, or lack of it..... ?A good supervisor or manager will be open to alternative methods of techniques. ?The mind is like a parachute; keep it open! Akemi Allison BS, HT(ASCP)HTL ________________________________ From: Rene J Buesa To: Jenny Vega ; joelle weaver ; "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray Jenny: There is a saying that "life is too short to drink cheap wine". In the same way life is too short to be frustrated daily working at a place where work is like a daily uphill battle. For what you describe you know your trade. Start looking for another place although do not expect that your ideas will always?be well received. "Older, trained on the job, and with lots of experiences" supervisors usually are not very open to suggestions, especially when those ideas conflict with what they are used to do because they do not know the scientific basis of what they are doing. The less open to suggestions a person is, the more ignorant they are likely to be. Ren? J. ________________________________ From: Jenny Vega To: joelle weaver ; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray Thanks everybody for your answers. I cant respond them all but I concluded that the best way to get good sections is too chill the blocks on ice because I agree that it facilitates the process. I really don't understand why my supervisor depends so much on freezing sprays to cut and the pathologist has never complained about artifacts caused by them but I do believe that they are present because I have seen them getting formed. It makes sectioning difficult because you try to get sections free of holes and that contributes to the problem. At my lab is the same thing. My supervisor is in charge of the embedding and she just use the ice only for hardening the paraffin block. We don't have a standard embedding center with cold plate. Since is a small lab we just have a heating plate where we handle the specimens and place them in the molds and we cool them on ice trays. After they are removed from the molds they are placed on the counter in numerical order and they reach room temperature and get warm. I do think that if they get cold and moistened since the beginning it can facilitate the sectioning process except for certain tissues that are not well processed. In my lab I change the reagents in the tissue processor weekly but they get dirty too quickly because we processes a lot of breast and colon tissue so is hard to get perfectly processed tissue daily. We are under a tight budget and we can't waste materials too quickly. This situation with my supervisor has caused me a lot of frustration. I have noticed that every tech has their own method to do things but unfortunately there are people who are not receptive to new ideas and they immediately criticize and say you are wrong specially if you are young and you have recently started your career. I have though on several occasions that all I learned in histotech school have been worthless because everybody in the lab does things differently and this has made me question my ability of being a good tech because I have experienced difficulty using their microtomy technique but I have realized that I am not wrong. Another issue was the use of microtome blades. Since I started my supervisor has told me to use the minimum amount of blades as possible because we are under a tight budget but I have noticed that some of those blades are of poor quality and since we cut a lot of tissues that are hard, calcified or have sutures they wear the blades too quickly. It's hard to cut many blocks using? only one blade that you use to trim and section. I have realized that I am successful obtaining good sections when I chill the blocks on ice for a couple of minutes and change the blade immediately after encountering difficulties with a block. It's not worth to sacrifice the quality of the samples just to be cheap and save some money. My supervisor is a great person and tech with a lot of experience but she is not very open to new ideas. Her demands to save money can be unrealistic when the correct technique is not being used . With her technique of course you are going to waste excess of freezing spray and blades but she doesn't understand this. Perhaps I need a change of environment which is unfortunate but is difficult to work like this. Thanks everyone for their input On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:56 AM, joelle weaver wrote: >? Jenny > > My experience and training is to use some method involving ice or at the > very least a cold-retaining tray made to chill blocks. I also was taught > this method in histology school , in clinical training at four quite > large institutions,? and also have used some variation of an ice cooling > method in every instance in my career working in clinical and research > settings. There are always variations in technique from lab to lab, but > freezing spray has been generally discouraged? for constant use at the > microtome, since it can introduce artifact in sections if over used. ( It > is pretty easy to see the effect on the face of the paraffin block, and > that is not even under the microscope.) I actually almost never use > freezing spray personally for regular paraffin microtomy. I? do use it when > doing frozen sections on occasion, but then it is typically only for > difficult specimens such as fatty breast or soft/fattty lymph nodes that > need very cold temperatures. I sometimes use it to cool only the backside > of paraffin blocks during embedding when I am being impatient, and I avoid > spraying directly on the face, and that is about the extent it of freeze > spray's uses for me. > > Personally, I prefer my blocks quite cold, in fact, one thing I don't like > where I currently work , is that blocks are allowed to get to room > temperature after removal from the embedding cold plate. I feel that I can > more efficiently get good sections when the cold temperature is maintained > and uniform though the block,? rather than re-cooling a warmed room temp. > block.? Overall, I would expect constant and direct application of the > freezing spray would be more of a problem than anything involving ice, > which would "flash freeze" mostly the surface, and not cool throughout, > which is why you have to keep spraying it.? Of course, I am not talking > about leaving the faced block surface on the ice for so long a time that it > becomes "water-logged"- but if you are sitting at your microtome and > cutting diligently, and not leaving faced pecimens just sit there, I'm not > sure how this would be an issue. > > In general I think the combination of ice and water benefits most > specimens? ( especially GI and Liver cores, bloody stuff, and other > types-that can sometimes be brittle and delicate due to processing)-I feel > that the small amount of moisture that transfers from contact with the > ice aids the smoothness/ reduces brittleness of the section, > reducing "shatter" artifact. I feel that I would be unable to get sections > without chatter in hard/dense tissues such as uterus body, cervix, bloody > specimens and others without using ice. The only exception for me, might be > brain which can cut better warm. > >? I am sure you must be frustrated, but if this is the clear direction of > your supervisor, and they are not receptive to making any changes or > allowing you to use your preferred technique, and not interested in > new different methods,? then? I am not sure that there would be much that > you can do other than comply with their policies. I know it is hard when > people are not open to new ideas and techniques . I? had have > that experience and? those feelings? quite often over the years, but just > try to stay postive, do the best you can. > > > > Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > > > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:31 -0400 > > From: histotech411@gmail.com > > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > Subject: [Histonet] Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray > > > > > I want to know what is your preferred method for cutting paraffin blocks > in > > the microtome everyday. At work I am having issues with my supervisor > > because we have different ways of doing things like for example she > doesn't > > like to use the technique where you first trim the tissue, cool it on an > > ice tray and then make a section. That is how I learned to cut in > histotech > > school. Instead she just trims and cuts the blocks at 4 microns one by > one > > using the same blade until it wears out and she cools the blocks only > > freezing spray. > > > > She doesn't like to cool the blocks on an ice tray because according to > her > > is a waste of time and that is why I have to use her technique but > > unfortunately some blocks are extremely difficult to cut and I have to go > > back to my preferred technique. I feel I get better sections without > > wrinkles when I chill and soak the blocks on ice for a couple of > minutes. I > > sometimes use freeze spray when the blocks get warm but when I cool them > > with ice I don't need to use freeze spray that much. Her technique works > > but is more successful when the blocks are well processed. I have > > difficulty getting completed sections this way and spend more time trying > > to get the perfect section. Sometimes I have my good days but other times > > is tedious using this technique. Another thing I notice is that the > blades > > get worn down quicker when you use them to trim and section. I prefer two > > separate blades, one to trim and the other one to section. I feel they > stay > > sharp for more time. > > > > She discourages the use of ice but then complains that we are running out > > of freezing spray for the frozen sections too quickly which doesn't make > > sense. It is obvious that if she encourages to use ice to cool blocks > then > > we will be using less freezing spray. > > > > Another reason she discourages the use of ice is that some blocks are not > > meant to be chilled which is pretty understandable. I cannot cool small > > biopsies such as gastric and skin and bone because they can get too hard > > and tear off from the block so I avoid that but I prefer to cool breast > and > > colon biopsies on ice because these are fatty tissue that can be tedious > to > > cut even when relying only on freezing spray. > > > > > > > > I want to know if it's completely acceptable for me to prefer the trim, > > cool on ice and section technique and if you feel is a waste of time > > comparing it with other ways of cutting such as the one I mentioned. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > Histonet mailing list > > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk Sun Sep 30 12:27:49 2012 From: carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk (Hobbs, Carl) Date: Sun Sep 30 12:27:58 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice Message-ID: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738180FB85F2E@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Nice one, Joelle. Good points.... I thank you for that sophisticated paper! Yep, wax is not JUST wax. It indeed has a crystalline, sophisticated structure. Yes, cutting good sections depends upon temp/speed of cutting/angle of knife/additives/effectiveness of processing. May be more variables ...( eg: sharpness of blade, humidity) ( Them crystals "slide" over each other, with heat.....thus COLD tends to minimize compression of section: ironically, so does heat: it momentarily expands the crystals....) I recall a paper by Edward Brain...in the 70s....proposing the addition of naphthalene to Pwax to improve penetration/cutting. It worked very well....then we realised that this additive was...NOT an appropriate one;-) Them were the days when we had Tea in the Lab and....smoked an occasional fag, next to the dewaxing xylene ;-) Interestingly, there have been no reports of xylene-related fires/cancers in the ~ 100 years of xylene use. Or, am I wrong ? Respectfully, Carl Carl Hobbs Histology Manager Wolfson CARD School of Biomedical Sciences Kings College London Guys Campus SE1 1UL Tel: 020 78486813 Fax: 020 78486816 020 78486813 From carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk Sun Sep 30 13:04:01 2012 From: carl.hobbs <@t> kcl.ac.uk (Hobbs, Carl) Date: Sun Sep 30 13:04:08 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice VS. Freezing Spray Message-ID: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738180FB85F70@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> I don't like ice-trays. Well, I tried them and.....they swelled me blocks! Stick them blocks in the fridge, instead! Sure, cooling them blocks is damn fine to get very thin kidney sections... Diane! The wonderful Chief Tech of Gt Ormond St kids Hospital.... Where are you??? You know all this stuff abart getting THIN kidney sections from Pwax blocks. Try "hughing" on the block, before cutting? Like a kid's breath when they are sleeping..... Ahhh. It's warm and, momentarily , expands them wax crystals? NB: Cooling them will have the same effect......weirdly Openly, Carl Caveat: each Lab MUST test out so many variables so as to appear Anal.. Fine...if you get damn fine results. However, share them results. Carl Hobbs Histology Manager Wolfson CARD School of Biomedical Sciences Kings College London Guys Campus SE1 1UL Tel: 020 78486813 Fax: 020 78486816 020 78486813 From joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com Sun Sep 30 13:30:57 2012 From: joelleweaver <@t> hotmail.com (joelle weaver) Date: Sun Sep 30 13:31:01 2012 Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice In-Reply-To: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738180FB85F2E@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> References: <00D6B8253EAED840B8D04E23549738180FB85F2E@AM2PRD0311MB399.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Glad if that is some of the information you were hinting at. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: carl.hobbs@kcl.ac.uk > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:27:49 +0000 > Subject: [Histonet] Re: Cooling paraffin blocks with ice > > Nice one, Joelle. > > Good points.... > I thank you for that sophisticated paper! > > Yep, wax is not JUST wax. > It indeed has a crystalline, sophisticated structure. > Yes, cutting good sections depends upon temp/speed of cutting/angle of knife/additives/effectiveness of processing. > May be more variables ...( eg: sharpness of blade, humidity) > ( Them crystals "slide" over each other, with heat.....thus COLD tends to minimize compression of section: ironically, so does heat: it momentarily expands the crystals....) > > I recall a paper by Edward Brain...in the 70s....proposing the addition of naphthalene to Pwax to improve penetration/cutting. > It worked very well....then we realised that this additive was...NOT an appropriate one;-) > Them were the days when we had Tea in the Lab and....smoked an occasional fag, next to the dewaxing xylene ;-) > Interestingly, there have been no reports of xylene-related fires/cancers in the ~ 100 years of xylene use. > Or, am I wrong ? > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Carl > > > > Carl Hobbs > Histology Manager > Wolfson CARD > School of Biomedical Sciences > Kings College London > Guys Campus > SE1 1UL > Tel: 020 78486813 > Fax: 020 78486816 > 020 78486813 > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet