[Histonet] Sponge problems in processing

Thu Apr 8 10:41:28 CDT 2004

Kemlo comes back (well he would):

"But that's cos the air is trying to escape to equilibrate the outside
reduction in air pressure. If the airplane was under water and had no
air in it and the air pressure was reduced on top of the water then it
would have no effect on the airplane, would it?"

Any explanations as to what this means to me please.

He continues:

"Similarly the fruit in the bag is not under water, is it? 
Put the fruit under water in the bag and then reduce the pressure above the water, bet no
juice comes out of the fruit except if there is trapped air and that forces some out as it
exits."

No, the fruit in the bag is not under water, but soon it is under fruit juice. The first thing that happens when you apply vacuum is that the air goes, then the fruit juice exits the fruit.
However, there is a difference in the two systems, in that the bag in the vacuum press collapses. The retort hopefully does not. Would this make a difference? My capacity to conceive some of these concepts is quite paltry.

"Bet you $10".

I don't do bets or dollars.

Someone put a car sponge in a VIP and stop it at the appropriate time would you?

 Terry L (wishing I'd kept my mouth shut) Marshall

Dr Terry L  Marshall, B.A.(Law), M.B.,Ch.B.,F.R.C.Path
 Consultant Pathologist
 Rotherham General Hospital
 South Yorkshire
 England
        terry.marshall <@t> rothgen.nhs.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Kemlo Rogerson [mailto:kemlo <@t> tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: 08 April 2004 16:14
To: Marshall Terry Dr, Consultant Histopathologist;
Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Sponge problems in processing

Bet you $10

Mr Kemlo Rogerson MSc DMS MIBiol CBiol FIBMS
Tel: 0208 970 8414
Mob: 07830 196072 
Mobile E-Mail kemlorogerson <@t> 3mail.com                     
FAX & Answer Phone 0871 242 8094
E-mail Accounts:  
             kemlo <@t> tiscali.co.uk or 
             kemlo1 <@t> btinternet.com 
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-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marshall
Terry Dr,Consultant Histopathologist
Sent: 08 April 2004 13:25
To: Kemlo Rogerson; Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Sponge problems in processing

When you see these "action thrillers" in airplanes, and a
bullet/bomb/whatever makes a hole in the fuselage, everything rushes to
the hole, not just the air. I can't envisage this process of sucking
only the air or "surface air bubbles" and leaving a soggy sponge replete
with its load. Under a vacuum, surely the sponge will collapse as the
contained liquid runs out towards the exit.
If you apply vacuum to a plastic bag containing fruit, the juice comes
out, and this forms the basis of a vacuum press, one of which I possess.

So there.

Dr Terry L Marshall, B.A.(Law), M.B.,Ch.B.,F.R.C.Path
 Consultant Pathologist
 Rotherham General Hospital
 South Yorkshire
 England
        terry.marshall <@t> rothgen.nhs.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Kemlo Rogerson [mailto:kemlo <@t> tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: 07 April 2004 16:48
To: Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Sponge problems in processing

I thought vacuum processing only 'sucked away' air. I mean if you reduce
the air pressure above the fluids then that reduces pressure within the
tissue that was preventing air escaping (as it has a positive pressure).
I suppose if you reduce the Saturated Vapour Pressure of a solvent then
that would cause more solvent to vapourise but wouldn't that be from the
surface of the solvent rather than within the tissue? 

Mr Kemlo Rogerson MSc DMS MIBiol CBiol FIBMS
Tel: 0208 970 8414
Mob: 07830 196072 
Mobile E-Mail kemlorogerson <@t> 3mail.com                     
FAX & Answer Phone 0871 242 8094
E-mail Accounts:  
             kemlo <@t> tiscali.co.uk or 
             kemlo1 <@t> btinternet.com 
Disclaimer: The information contained in this message and/or any
attachments(s) may be of a private and confidential nature, and is
intended solely for the attention of the addressee. If you have received
this message in error or feel you should not have been the intended
recipient, please return it and any attachments to the sender
immediately. All messages relating to this communication should then be
deleted from your system. Unauthorised usage, copying, disclosure or
alteration of this message and/or attachment(s) is strictly prohibited.
Barking, Havering and Redbridge Hospitals NHS Trust will not be held
responsible for any direct or indirect damages which may arise from
alteration of this message or any attachment(s), by a third party or
resulting from the transmission of a virus.

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marshall
Terry Dr,Consultant Histopathologist
Sent: 06 April 2004 16:21
To: Steven E. Slap; Gayle Callis; Gudrun Lang;
Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Sponge problems in processing

OK. 200 ml. of liquid retained, with 100 blocks.
However, with a vacuum processor, is that not all "sucked away"?

BTW, should it sound otherwise, I hate the things (but am stuck with
them).

Dr Terry L Marshall, B.A.(Law), M.B.,Ch.B.,F.R.C.Path
 Consultant Pathologist
 Rotherham General Hospital
 South Yorkshire
 England
        terry.marshall <@t> rothgen.nhs.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven E. Slap [mailto:siksik03 <@t> comcast.net]
Sent: 06 April 2004 16:14
To: Gayle Callis; Gudrun Lang; Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Re: [Histonet] Sponge problems in processing

Hi HistoNetters

I agree with Gayle, and the other posters who pointed out that 
sponges carry over 1ml of fluid per sponge (so, with 100 cassettes, 
200 sponges, that's a lot of carryover).

I have had a lot of success with the biopsy cassettes which Gayle 
refers to, both in microwaves and in conventional tissue processors. 
You can request samples from Lab Storage Systems in St. Louis by 
phone at (800) 345-4167 or by e-mailing Rita Lovshe at 
rcl <@t> labstore.com.

best regards,
Steven Slap

At 10:20 AM -0700 4/1/04, Gayle Callis wrote:
>To: "Gudrun Lang" <gudrun.lang <@t> aon.at>,
Histonet <@t> lists.utsouthwestern.edu
>From: Gayle Callis <gcallis <@t> montana.edu>
>Cc:
>Subject: [Histonet] Sponge problems in processing
>
>Gudrun,
>
>We no longer use sponges, prefer to place tissues in tissue embedding
bags
>(Fisher) which look like tea bags or the little nylon bags (not as easy
to
>handle, but thinner than sponges) and a tidge stiffer than tea bags.
>Sponges can cause artifacts in your tissues, looking like triangular
holes
>in section.  This was published by Freida Carson in Journal of
>Histotechnology, 1980's.  Using tea bags may not be as fast during
>embedding, but speed there is a trade off for having to reprocess
important
>tissue samples, ho hum tedious and time consuming while patient waits. 
>
>You analysis of problem sound correct with a poor exchange of solvents
>through sponges. If you pack cassettes super tight in basket/cassette
>holder inside processor you can impede solvent flow or if sponges are
>crammed too tight agaist tissue then lid smashed down on tissue/sponge
>sandwich - this is like having too thick a tissue in a cassette. 
>
>There are some clever biopsy cassettes with a folding, fine mesh
inserts
>fitting inside a cassette.  These may be worth a try to avoid sponges.
I
>think they are available through Fisher or some other company who could
>provide free samples.  It will be interesting to see peoples
testimonials
>on using these. 
>
>There was Histonet discussion on these sponges way back in time - it
may
>pay to do a search for those messages in Histonet Archives.

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